Eastie Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 25 minutes ago, Nigel said: The funny thing is it would/will take the likes of Wagner a time to install his methods. We are not really known for our tolerance of waiting for future successes. There is nothing to show me that Wagner would survive to show what he could implement long term. The funny thing is I wonder how many would be screaming for the loss of the obvious choice of Bruce? On a separate note wasn't there rumblings that he had decided to stay at Huddersfield rather than coming here....that does show a modicum of sense at least! Sadly I fear there will be bigger and better clubs than villa chasing Wagner in the summer - he's already turned down the likes of Wolfsburg and should Koeman depart as expected in the summer I could see Wagner being ideal for Everton . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted February 27, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted February 27, 2017 11 hours ago, TheStagMan said: Brighton away...... but even so, thats still only 2. Like most i will take a scruffy 1-0 win over a pretty 0-1 loss. BUT, I have no confidence from current performances that we can compete at the top end of this league nexts season. Lets hope things pick up in the next few games. Brighton away was a good (excellent actually) second half. We didn't play well first half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 38 minutes ago, Nigel said: I'd agree with those who say that the weekends victory was lucky. We were horrible to watch. Lucky? I'm not sure I agree entirely. We had the equal on chances and actually scored. Regardless, sometimes when you're down in the black stuff you need a bit of luck to dig yourself out. The clean sheet will do them the world of good too. Those kind of games are not the kind to judge a team on. The performance is completely irrelevant, though it really wasn't that bad. Now we need them to react to it tomorrow night, even if that means grinding another one out. Build that confidence back up. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 13 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: Lucky? I'm not sure I agree entirely. We had the equal on chances and actually scored. Regardless, sometimes when you're down in the black stuff you need a bit of luck to dig yourself out. The clean sheet will do them the world of good too. Those kind of games are not the kind to judge a team on. The performance is completely irrelevant, though it really wasn't that bad. Now we need them to react to it tomorrow night, even if that means grinding another one out. Build that confidence back up. Spot on. It seems a lot of people want to have a pop at the team and manager at the moment regardless of the result. Yes it was lucky that they didn't get a penalty but how often have we been unlucky this season? Surely we deserved a bit of a luck and the battling nature of the performances warrants some small praise. At the moment the team is completely devoid of confidence and all they need at the are results. Performances will come in time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 1 hour ago, Jareth said: Swapping Bruce in the summer and starting again is as good as giving up on promotion before the new season has even begun. Who can say with any confidence that they think a new manager and yet another squad overhaul is going to get us promotion? I just can't see that working. That 's football for you, I feel the complete opposite. Keeping Bruce in the summer and letting him go again is as good as giving up on promotion before the new season has even begun. I don't see him building anything here, he hasn't even got a foundation yet. All he's done so far is tinkered with what color of beige he want's the carpets in the upstairs bedroom to be. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 12 minutes ago, sne said: That 's football for you, I feel the complete opposite. Keeping Bruce in the summer and letting him go again is as good as giving up on promotion before the new season has even begun. I don't see him building anything here, he hasn't even got a foundation yet. All he's done so far is tinkered with what color of beige he want's the carpets in the upstairs bedroom to be. He has the rest of the season to put the foundation in place. I'm going to give it till then to see whether he can do it or not. There's plenty of evidence to suggest he can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 13 minutes ago, sne said: That 's football for you, I feel the complete opposite. Keeping Bruce in the summer and letting him go again is as good as giving up on promotion before the new season has even begun. I don't see him building anything here, he hasn't even got a foundation yet. All he's done so far is tinkered with what color of beige he want's the carpets in the upstairs bedroom to be. Would history not suggest that a season and a half at a club is enough for Steve Bruce to get a team promoted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 9 minutes ago, sne said: That 's football for you, I feel the complete opposite. Keeping Bruce in the summer and letting him go again is as good as giving up on promotion before the new season has even begun. I don't see him building anything here, he hasn't even got a foundation yet. All he's done so far is tinkered with what color of beige he want's the carpets in the upstairs bedroom to be. Aye, agree with your point about opposites, very true. But, we've sacked off Lambert, Sherwood, Garde and RDM in the last 2 years as the owner sought to fix the problems by putting in a new manager - if we do it again, then that's a massive, massive gamble to make given how it has not worked as a strategy for us, at all, ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted February 27, 2017 Visiting Supporter Share Posted February 27, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Would history not suggest that a season and a half at a club is enough for Steve Bruce to get a team promoted? That's a very good point and one which I was going to put out there. How long did it take him to get his other teams promoted? Was it just a season and a half, less than that or longer? I suppose you'd also have to consider financial constraints and the way he has been backed here. Edited February 27, 2017 by striker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 1 minute ago, striker said: That's a very good point and one which I was going to put out there. How long did it take him to get his other teams promoted? Funny you ask that as I looked it up after I posted. It seems he always got his teams promoted and never spent more than a single season in the Championship. That is with 2 separate clubs and 4 promotions, 2 of which were after the team got relegated and bounced straight back. Thats pretty impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Just now, Jareth said: Aye, agree with your point about opposites, very true. But, we've sacked off Lambert, Sherwood, Garde and RDM in the last 2 years as the owner sought to fix the problems by putting in a new manager - if we do it again, then that's a massive, massive gamble to make given how it has not worked as a strategy for us, at all, ever. It's all about the giving people time versus finding the right guy. If we sack Bruce I have little confidence we will hire the right guy, but on the other hand I have no faith in Bruce doing anything here, even given more time. In this case for me it rather the devil I don't know. No one of us has any idea of what will happen, you can point to what Bruce has achieved before at other clubs, and I can point to the complete and utter horror show he has been here so far. The board seemingly wan't to try your way so it is what it is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 4 minutes ago, sne said: It's all about the giving people time versus finding the right guy. If we sack Bruce I have little confidence we will hire the right guy, but on the other hand I have no faith in Bruce doing anything here, even given more time. In this case for me it rather the devil I don't know. No one of us has any idea of what will happen, you can point to what Bruce has achieved before at other clubs, and I can point to the complete and utter horror show he has been here so far. The board seemingly wan't to try your way so it is what it is. Well that's not fair, IMO. 24 points from the first 12 games suggest otherwise. Though from there he started to tinker, got it horribly wrong and he/we have not been able to arrest the slide. 24 points (or so) from the final 12 and perhaps we look at that as an unsavory blip with mitigating circumstances and give him the benefit of the doubt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted February 27, 2017 Visiting Supporter Share Posted February 27, 2017 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Funny you ask that as I looked it up after I posted. It seems he always got his teams promoted and never spent more than a single season in the Championship. That is with 2 separate clubs and 4 promotions, 2 of which were after the team got relegated and bounced straight back. Thats pretty impressive. Thanks for researching that. So to judge him fairly then he must be given a full season in the job to repeat what he has done elsewhere. Between now and the end of the season though you would hope to see a steady improvement in results and then that taken into the start of next season. I'm still not sure that trying to nick games by the odd goal is going to get Villa promoted unless a better more domineering keeper comes in for a start but after that stat I guess he should be given more time to get it right. Edited February 27, 2017 by striker 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 4 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: Well that's not fair, IMO. 24 points from the first 12 games suggest otherwise. Though from there he started to tinker, got it horribly wrong and he/we have not been able to arrest the slide. 24 points (or so) from the final 12 and perhaps we look at that as an unsavory blip with mitigating circumstances and give him the benefit of the doubt? Yeah that's fair. A bit OT from me. Results wise the start of his tenure was fine, although we've still IMO not been able to play any kind of organised structured football as a team under him. Especially not in possession or attack. I would need more than grinding out the odd victory and draw over the last games of the season for me to back him (other than I obviously wan't Villa to win) for the long haul. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Just now, sne said: Yeah that's fair. A bit OT from me. Results wise the start of his tenure was fine, although we've still IMO not been able to play any kind of organised structured football as a team under him. Especially not in possession or attack. I would need more than grinding out the odd victory and draw over the last games of the season for me to back him (other than I obviously wan't Villa to win) for the long haul. Understood and agreed. I happen to think we've done the hard part now, we have arrested said slide. Now we need to see more, a lot more. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 38 minutes ago, sne said: That 's football for you, I feel the complete opposite. Keeping Bruce in the summer and letting him go again is as good as giving up on promotion before the new season has even begun. I don't see him building anything here, he hasn't even got a foundation yet. All he's done so far is tinkered with what color of beige he want's the carpets in the upstairs bedroom to be. I disagree. I think we do now have a foundation to build on. When Bruce arrived the squad was very unbalanced and I don’t think that is anything like the case now and will need only minimal changes in the summer. When he arrived we were lacking in midfield and that has been addressed. We lacked a speedy goal poacher and that has now been addressed. The only areas I would say could now do with improving are goalkeeper and depending on how we want to play we potentially need strengthening out wide. He now has two months of this season to turn a group of very good individuals, at this level, into a team. You could say he should already have done that but I think it is unrealistic given that half a dozen of the players arrived last month. We will know if Bruce is the man to take us forward come the end of the season. The club have stated he is here next season regardless but I don’t believe that is the case. They will want to see a positive end to the season both in terms of results and performances as that will then be the springboard for next season. Conversely a poor finish to this season and you risk a hangover going into next season. Looking in from the outside some would think we have little to play for this season but I think the upcoming two months are massive for us and we have a big opportunity to use it to set us up for achieving promotion next season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 2 minutes ago, markavfc40 said: I disagree. I think we do now have a foundation to build on. When Bruce arrived the squad was very unbalanced and I don’t think that is anything like the case now and will need only minimal changes in the summer. When he arrived we were lacking in midfield and that has been addressed. We lacked a speedy goal poacher and that has now been addressed. The only areas I would say could now do with improving are goalkeeper and depending on how we want to play we potentially need strengthening out wide. He now has two months of this season to turn a group of very good individuals, at this level, into a team. You could say he should already have done that but I think it is unrealistic given that half a dozen of the players arrived last month. We will know if Bruce is the man to take us forward come the end of the season. The club have stated he is here next season regardless but I don’t believe that is the case. They will want to see a positive end to the season both in terms of results and performances as that will then be the springboard for next season. Conversely a poor finish to this season and you risk a hangover going into next season. Looking in from the outside some would think we have little to play for this season but I think the upcoming two months are massive for us and we have a big opportunity to use it to set us up for achieving promotion next season. As I said I don't agree, but time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted February 27, 2017 Moderator Share Posted February 27, 2017 2 hours ago, Nigel said: On a separate note wasn't there rumblings that he had decided to stay at Huddersfield rather than coming here....that does show a modicum of sense at least! You can't turn down a job not offered but you might just have to repair the damage of putting yourself in the frame... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 2 minutes ago, markavfc40 said: He now has two months of this season to turn a group of very good individuals, at this level, into a team. You could say he should already have done that but I think it is unrealistic given that half a dozen of the players arrived last month. Well, only 3 of those played on Saturday. One is a goalkeeper who's confidence is through the floor. The other a full back replacing a full back who's confidence is through the floor, two positions that shouldn't have *much* of an effect on a system. The other Lansbury, who is replacing Garwood. Fact is, Bruce has had time to put a system in place and through his own tinkering has utterly failed in his remit to do so. However I will say this, if had a full season in which we averaged ~2 points per game, except for a 7 game period where we lost 6 from 7 (which can in all fairness happen to any team) then we would be challenging for playoffs regardless. What we do now until May is very important, can he turn the ship around, again? I'm yet to be convinced, but I will be patient. I don't really see an alternative. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 I think some people forget how bad we were. We went down with the worst points tally since Derby and they have been here 8 seasons since which includes record transfer spending in that time. Yes we have spent a ridiculous amount of money but we nearly got a completely new squad. Give them the rest of the season and preseason together and we will have a team for next season which will challenge for top 2. I'm sure of it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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