villa89 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Michael118 said: Since I've been following Villa it's - O'Neill O'Leary, Lambert ------------------------------------------ Houlier, Bruce, Garde McLeish, RDM Sherwood Jesus what a collections of sub-par managers that is. One day we will appoint a good manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 1 hour ago, bannedfromHandV said: Does Lewis Hamilton's titles count for less because of the lack of opposition over recent years? Did you just compare Lewis Hamilton to Steve Bruce? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khizzy Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 The same groups that think that Gabby is a Villa legend.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carewjust4u Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 As good or bad as you think Bruce is, there is no doubt he is infinitely better than; Aston Villa: Emile Heskey is our Franz Beckenbauer says Alex McLeishhttp://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-emile-heskey-franz-163190 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Stevo985 Posted January 17, 2018 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted January 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Michael118 said: For me, Bruce is bottom 3 PL quality. O'Leary and Lambert had/have higher ceilings and give you a better chance of staying up as well. Bruce's Premier League finishes: 13th 10th 12th 18th 15th 14th 11th 13th 10th 16th 16th 18th So in 12 seasons of managing in the Premier League, he's finished in the bottom 3 twice. How does that lead you to conclude that he's bottom 3 quality? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 (edited) 49 minutes ago, tomav84 said: I tend to find folks like that are either overcompensating to get their view across or simply trying to get under the skin of bruce-outers. there are extremes on both sides of the argument as i've seen real hatred towards him on FB therefore i dont find FB to be a true reflection...but then i've said that about villatalk too! my group of pals say keep him on even if we dont go up...but i know such opinions aren't welcome here The thing is there are fans that raise legitimate criticisms and others who align themselves who just want him out at any cost.....they are NOT the same argument. There are other fans that defend Bruce's position, but empathise with some of the criticisms ( legitimate ones) due to the complexity of the arguments they sometimes get lost in translation. I accept the job Steve Bruce is doing in an overall sense, but i may look at it differently to others, who don't. I don't think many folk wanting to keep him like me, would actually comment on his tenure, if was not for some levels of criticism aimed at him.....we are just defending the attacks. so lets put some perspective on alternative views, its only the critics that create them, by creating OTT criticism. so there would be no Briners without Brouters Edited January 17, 2018 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Bruce's Premier League finishes: 13th 10th 12th 18th 15th 14th 11th 13th 10th 16th 16th 18th So in 12 seasons of managing in the Premier League, he's finished in the bottom 3 twice. How does that lead you to conclude that he's bottom 3 quality? Ok he is bottom 6 quality, is that much more impressive? lol Edited January 17, 2018 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 17, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted January 17, 2018 (edited) 15 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: Ok he is bottom 6 quality, is that much more impressive? lol Not at all. (Edit: also only 5 out of 12 seasons has he finished in the bottom 6 either. I think "bottom half" is fairer) But when the discussion is comparing him to the shite that have managed this club in the past 10 years then the difference between bottom 6 and bottom 3 is quite significant! How anyone can rate Bruce behind Lambert and on a par with Garde is beyond me. What on earth did Garde do in his tenure here to put him on a par with Bruce? Edited January 17, 2018 by Stevo985 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 29 minutes ago, omariqy said: Did you just compare Lewis Hamilton to Steve Bruce? How did you deduce that? I thought is was a principle being made.....the names just got in the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 6 minutes ago, TRO said: How did you deduce that? I thought is was a principle being made.....the names just got in the way. Even the principle is wrong. Lewis Hamilton should be being compared to other drivers in the past not the current drivers. Also Lewis Hamilton has won titles, Bruce hasn't. I was actually defending Bruce but bringing up Lewis Hamilton is laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 10 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Not at all. But when the discussion is comparing him to the shite that have managed this club in the past 10 years then the difference between bottom 6 and bottom 3 is quite significant! How anyone can rate Bruce behind Lambert and on a par with Garde is beyond me. What on earth did Garde do in his tenure here to put him on a par with Bruce? Yeah Garde was appaling. Hard to compare to Lambert though, especially early on. If Lambert had comparatively the same level of squad/backing Bruce has had then who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 17, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted January 17, 2018 1 minute ago, omariqy said: Yeah Garde was appaling. Hard to compare to Lambert though, especially early on. If Lambert had comparatively the same level of squad/backing Bruce has had then who knows. I kind of agree... but he didn't. Garde might have us top of the league by 10 points if he was here now. But we'll never know. All we can go on are how they actually performed. Championship or not, I really struggle to agree with someone rating Lambert higher than Bruce. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: I kind of agree... but he didn't. Garde might have us top of the league by 10 points if he was here now. But we'll never know. All we can go on are how they actually performed. Championship or not, I really struggle to agree with someone rating Lambert higher than Bruce. Yup I agree given their records. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, omariqy said: Yeah Garde was appaling. Hard to compare to Lambert though, especially early on. If Lambert had comparatively the same level of squad/backing Bruce has had then who knows. Lambert had 3 years to get things right.....yeah he had a dysfuntional owner, to his credit, but he did crumble and by hanging on helped to create the demise......he also left the legacy of a 5 year deal for Gabby, which was tantamount to commercial sabotage. I don't think outside of Hogan, Bruce has had that much backing to speak of in terms of huge fee's. Thats not meant to be a criticism of Bruce or Xia.....most had to bed in. I think in the Summer SB traded with a surplus. Edited January 17, 2018 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael118 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, Stevo985 said: Bruce's Premier League finishes: 13th10th12th18th15th14th11th13th10th16th16th18th So in 12 seasons of managing in the Premier League, he's finished in the bottom 3 twice. How does that lead you to conclude that he's bottom 3 quality? Those stats are a bit misleading. You included his last season at Birmingham where he left after 13 games when they were in 15th and also his last season at Sunderland where he was sacked when they were in 16th. Out of the last 7 times he's made it to the end of a Premier League season he's been relegated twice. If you assume he would have been relegated at Sunderland that would make it 3 out of the last 7. Those aren't good survival odds for a 'bottom half Premier League manager'. Edited January 17, 2018 by Michael118 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael118 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Sam Allardyce and Tony Pulis have made it to the end of 20 Premier League seasons combined with a total of 0 relegations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Sean Dyche has only spent 3 seasons in the PL and one of those resulted in relegation. The stat alone doesn't look great yet everyone agrees that he has done a fantastic job at Burnley. Stats are helpful but do not paint the full picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 3 hours ago, omariqy said: Yeah Garde was appaling. Hard to compare to Lambert though, especially early on. If Lambert had comparatively the same level of squad/backing Bruce has had then who knows. What backing did Garde have ? Nothing in comparison to Lambert ,and I mean ,literally nothing . His treatment was nothing short of shocking . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 7 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said: What backing did Garde have ? Nothing in comparison to Lambert ,and I mean ,literally nothing . His treatment was nothing short of shocking . Oh yeah i can't argue with that but he still had decent players there and could've got more out of them I think. All hope was lost after that Jan window tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 45 minutes ago, Michael118 said: Those stats are a bit misleading. You included his last season at Birmingham where he left after 13 games when they were in 15th and also his last season at Sunderland where he was sacked when they were in 16th. Out of the last 7 times he's made it to the end of a Premier League season he's been relegated twice. If you assume he would have been relegated at Sunderland that would make it 3 out of the last 7. Those aren't good survival odds for a 'bottom half Premier League manager'. Not just misleading ,but about as exciting as reading a railway timetable . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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