Steve Bruce

[terrytini]

Some may find it interesting that from mid October ( just AFTER the defeat at Wolves) this season season ourvrecord is 

Pld 10 W 5 D 3 L 2 Scored 12 Conceeded 8 : Points 18

The same period last season......

Pld 10 W 5 D 3 L 2 Scored 12 Conceeded 9 : Points 18.

In my view it’s at least reasonable to observe that’s an awful lot of time, money, and players, for, erm, well, decide for yourselves !

[mrjc]

23 minutes ago, lexicon said:

It's funny really - last 10 games we've had 5 wins, 3 draws and 2 losses. Knives are now out for Bruce after a run of 3 games and a return of 2 points.

The team is suffering badly from injuries, which is not Bruce's fault and it does explain the form. 

It's never been pretty and it'll never be pretty but it has been pretty effective so far this season and can continue to be. 

I think criticism of him is warranted and fair but wanting him sacked is foolish at this juncture, IMO. 

I see what you mean - and I find the timing a difficult one, as it's not ideal at this stage.

For me though, it vindicates the view that he should have gone very early in the season, when (to me at least) it seemed he hadn't really made any progress on addressing last year's shortcomings.   We'll now never know whether that was a risk worth taking, but I believed at that point we would not be capable of getting up automatically (if at all), and the last few months have done nothing to change my mind.

I appreciate we've had injuries, but we're now almost halfway through the season and 10 points off an automatic spot, which for me was absolutely the deliverable this season.  That's with more than a year in the job, and very significant resources (inherited and spent, including wages) available to him.  A good manager ultimately overcomes the challenges, rather than using them as reasons for not delivering.

Back to your point about timing, on which I generally see what you mean - ultimately I still don't feel at all confident he will achieve our goals this season, so I would still favour a change (assuming the club has a succession plan).

 

[mykeyb]

As much as I don't think he is the man to gain promotion I don't think now is the time for change, then January comes and again that's not the time for change. After the window shuts is there any point then in making the change?

He should have gone in October but didn't, he is here for the season I am afraid, but should not get another season, mind you since he will have zero money to spend and some big players looking to leave I wouldn't be surprised if he did what he did at Hull.

[AvfcRigo82]

5 minutes ago, terrytini said:

Some may find it interesting that from mid October ( just AFTER the defeat at Wolves) this season season ourvrecord is 

Pld 10 W 5 D 3 L 2 Scored 12 Conceeded 8 : Points 18

The same period last season......

Pld 10 W 5 D 3 L 2 Scored 12 Conceeded 9 : Points 18.

In my view it’s at least reasonable to observe that’s an awful lot of time, money, and players, for, erm, well, decide for yourselves !

Stand still?

[lexicon]

Dave J and Terrytini, thanks for the well-reasoned debate and replies. I've got no time for hyperbole either way. To answer some of the points:

Quote

Can you see fans of Man City/ United/ Chelsea/Arsenal/ Spurs happy with that ? We’ll surely we are at least roughly equivalent in this League, certainly in terms of aspirations as a Club ?

No to both, IMO. We're coming from a very different situation to those clubs and I don't think the analogy quite works. We've just about managed to shake off the last 5 years or so, fairly recently IMO. RDM's remit was to steady the ship and have us fighting at the top of the table but he didn't manage either of those things. Bruce had to come in and sort out the former first, which I think goes unnoticed a lot of the time, and that wasn't really evident until after our bad start. Bruce started here at a club still in decline, certainly in terms of mentality, and had to halt that before we could move forward - Wolves, for example, had none of the same problems and could build a lot quicker without the rot and expectations. 

 

2 hours ago, terrytini said:

I think Tony will see this through to the end of the season when we will either get promoted or he will be able to say he fully tried it and it didn’t work so cheerio.

Agreed. I think both are realistic scenarios, at this point - if we get to the point where we can't make the playoffs then he should go immediately but I really don't think that will happen. 

 

Quote

So in you’re view which I totally respect but not agree with - we should just continue to stumble along, holding onto the coat tails of the play - offs ? 

I wouldn't say that we've stumbled until recently and we were comfortably in the playoff spots before all the injuries. I don't see why we're bound to struggle now, when we weren't before. 

[Dave J]

2 hours ago, mykeyb said:

As much as I don't think he is the man to gain promotion I don't think now is the time for change, then January comes and again that's not the time for change. After the window shuts is there any point then in making the change?

He should have gone in October but didn't, he is here for the season I am afraid, but should not get another season, mind you since he will have zero money to spend and some big players looking to leave I wouldn't be surprised if he did what he did at Hull.

Or you could take the view that now could be a productive time to make change ahead of the window?

[vreitti]

4 minutes ago, Dave J said:

Or you could take the view that now could be a productive time to make change ahead of the window?

This. It's the perfect opportunity for someone new to come in, with the transfer window looming. Wishful thinking though, it won't happen while we're still 'in the race'.

An altogether different issue is will we still be "there of thereabouts" at the end of January!? Sadly I don't think we will.

[DCJonah]

3 hours ago, lexicon said:

It's funny really - last 10 games we've had 5 wins, 3 draws and 2 losses. Knives are now out for Bruce after a run of 3 games and a return of 2 points.

The team is suffering badly from injuries, which is not Bruce's fault and it does explain the form. 

It's never been pretty and it'll never be pretty but it has been pretty effective so far this season and can continue to be. 

I think criticism of him is warranted and fair but wanting him sacked is foolish at this juncture, IMO. 

But he is way off his targets set for him. Everything the owner and CEO talked about in the summer is currently way beyond what Bruce is demonstrating. Even with a good run of 10 games we are still off those targets. 

Making the playoffs isn't an achievement, promotion is. He is showing nothing to suggest there is a good chance of it happening. 

[lexicon]

13 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

But he is way off his targets set for him. Everything the owner and CEO talked about in the summer is currently way beyond what Bruce is demonstrating. Even with a good run of 10 games we are still off those targets. 

Making the playoffs isn't an achievement, promotion is. He is showing nothing to suggest there is a good chance of it happening. 

What exactly were those targets? Links? 

We're not way off, either. 

[pacbuddies]

12 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

Well you tell me what you were doing. This is what I’m trying to decipher. If you just told us then it would be much easier.

Do you even know?

You seem to be the only one confused.

[AvfcRigo82]

55 minutes ago, lexicon said:

I wouldn't say that we've stumbled until recently and we were comfortably in the playoff spots before all the injuries. I don't see why we're bound to struggle now, when we weren't before. 

Did you not see Saturday's line up or the post match interview from the manager?

Do you honestly think we are still in line for automatic promotion this season or do you think we will be lucky enough to finish in the play offs?

[Stevo985]

15 minutes ago, pacbuddies said:

You seem to be the only one confused.

Yet it's you who can't explain what you meant. You just continue to dodge the question.

Yes I am confused, I've admitted this, I've asked you to explain. You can't.

I know what I infer from that. Happy to be convinced otherwise.

[lexicon]

8 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

Did you not see Saturday's line up or the post match interview from the manager?

Do you honestly think we are still in line for automatic promotion this season or do you think we will be lucky enough to finish in the play offs?

Saturday's line up was always going to be less than desirable given the injuries. I didn't agree with Onomah up front but we had a half-fit striker in Hogan and an absolute mess of a person in Gabby there. 

As for the post-match - he said that we made too many individual mistakes, which was true and also  'We didn't deserve to get beaten 2-0 but we also didn't do enough to win' - which is also true. What upset you so much about it?

I think automatic promotion is possible. It's certainly not a given but it can be done. I don't think we'll finish outside of the playoffs, at any rate. 

[AvfcRigo82]

24 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

But he is way off his targets set for him. Everything the owner and CEO talked about in the summer is currently way beyond what Bruce is demonstrating. Even with a good run of 10 games we are still off those targets. 

Making the playoffs isn't an achievement, promotion is. He is showing nothing to suggest there is a good chance of it happening. 

 

10 minutes ago, lexicon said:

What exactly were those targets? Links? 

We're not way off, either. 

 

 

Quote

Aston Villa WILL be promoted - says almost every Championship expert

Every Championship reporter was asked who would be promoted and Villa will be delighted with the responses.

Aston Villa have been backed by 18 of the 24 Championship reporters to be promoted in 2017/18.

Marc Iles from the Bolton News asked each reporter who covers a Championship club for their local paper/website to pick the three teams they think will win promotion and three who will go down, as part of a preview for the coming campaign.

Aston Villa

Reporter name and paper: Joseph Chapman, Birmingham Mail

Ground: Villa Park

Manager: Steve Bruce

Main summer signings: John Terry, Sam Johnstone, Glenn Whelan, Ahmed Elmohamady, Chris Samba.

Main summer departures: Libor Kozak, Jordan Veretout, Carlos Sanchez, Carles Gil, Aaron Tshibola.

Fans’ expectation: In a word, promotion. That was the expectation last season, so Steve Bruce’s first full campaign in charge will be greeted with even greater levels of pressure.

He’s recruited with plenty of experience, so Villa as a whole are running out of excuses.

One to watch: If presented with an opportunity, Andre Green could have an impact this season.

Jonathan Kodjia and James Chester grabbed the headlines with their performances at either end of the pitch last season, but young winger Green has enjoyed a storming pre-season and could flourish.

Three to go up, and three to go down: Up – Middlesbrough, Fulham, Aston Villa. Down – Millwall, Ipswich, Burton.

17/18 Target!

That is a good place to start to prove everyone and their dog has us down to get out this league this season!

 

There's more...

Quote

Championship preview: Aston Villa, Fulham, Middlesbrough and more - who are this season's promotion favourites?

John Terry believes his new club have the means and experience to secure their place in England's top flight - but who will they be competing against?

• Jack Watson 
• Tuesday 1 August 2017

•  
•  
•  
•  

John Terry has his sights set on a return to the Premier League with Aston Villa Getty

Former Chelsea captain John Terry has revealed that Aston Villa will not settle for anything less than first place in the Championship next season.

Terry joined Aston Villa after his contract with the Premier League champions expired at the end of the 2016-17 season.

The 36-year-old says it is an exciting chapter and confirmed that Aston Villa want nothing less than to lift the Championship trophy. “Lifting the trophy is what we want to be doing at the end of the season. Our ambition is to get up,” Terry told Sky Sports.

• READ MORE

TERRY JOINS ASTON VILLA ON ONE-YEAR DEAL

The defender was also full of praise for his new manager who worked hard to bring him to Villa Park. “The manager with his experience he can bring and offer to the group, it’s impeccable, really.

“We are going to be looking for promotion as we have everything is in place to do it: the manager, the squad, the facilities, the stadium the fans.”

Aston Villa begin their assault on promotion at home against Hull. Despite suffering relegation from the Premier League last season and a change in manager, Terry has backed the Tigers to also challenge for a place in England’s top tier. “Hull will be right up for it having been relegated but they will be looking to get straight back up.”

Plenty of teams will have their eyes on promotion, or the play-offs, and Terry recognises that Villa are not the only side in with a chance of going up. “There are five or six clubs will have the same ambition.

“We have to work consistently hard to do well and grind out results - there are a lot of games in the Championship but we also have the mental toughness.”

Terry backs Hull to do well but bookmakers place Aston Villa and Middlesborough as joint favourites to finish first - but who else is in the running for promotion?

Even our captain thinks so...

[AvfcRigo82]

2 minutes ago, lexicon said:

What upset you so much about it?

I think automatic promotion is possible. It's certainly not a given but it can be done. I don't think we'll finish outside of the playoffs, at any rate. 

What upset me that he had two strikers on the bench!?.. then comes out and basically states he **** up!

I do love your optimism though. 

 

[Stevo985]

5 minutes ago, lexicon said:

Saturday's line up was always going to be less than desirable given the injuries. I didn't agree with Onomah up front but we had a half-fit striker in Hogan and an absolute mess of a person in Gabby there. 

As for the post-match - he said that we made too many individual mistakes, which was true and also  'We didn't deserve to get beaten 2-0 but we also didn't do enough to win' - which is also true. What upset you so much about it?

I think automatic promotion is possible. It's certainly not a given but it can be done. I don't think we'll finish outside of the playoffs, at any rate. 

This exactly for me.

[DCJonah]

44 minutes ago, lexicon said:

What exactly were those targets? Links? 

We're not way off, either. 

We are 10 points off automatic promotion. That is way off. 

We are way off scoring 70+ goals, which Keith Wyness stated was something needed to help get us promoted back in the summer. 

And we are way off averaging 2 pts a game which Dr T spoke about being the aim just a few months ago. 

As i say, we are way off where we aimed to be. Next game is the halfway mark and i wouldn't be that surprised to see us out the playoff spots. 

Edited December 18, 2017 by DCJonah

[Dave J]

28 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Yet it's you who can't explain what you meant. You just continue to dodge the question.

Yes I am confused, I've admitted this, I've asked you to explain. You can't.

I know what I infer from that. Happy to be convinced otherwise.

Have you ever stopped and wondered if for once it may just possibly be you getting it wrong? Just a thought - i’ll Leave it with you.

[Junxs]

19 hours ago, DCJonah said:

"I think next season is very important. I'm not going to shy away from it - next season is a big one for us," he told Sky Sports. 

"We can't get away from that at all. We want to do everything we can next season to go up. It will be an important season, we have got a great squad, there will be no excuses for us not to go up."

The words of our CEO last year. 

Sounds to me that it would be considered failure if we don't go up

He said something similar the year before, but Bruce came out in the summer and said the target was to stay up.. which he achieved

I think next year we will actually discover the target this season was to stable the club with a mid table finish. Which I think is exactly where we are headed come seasons end.

[AvfcRigo82]

7 minutes ago, Junxs said:

I think next year we will actually discover the target this season was to stable the club with a mid table finish. Which I think is exactly where we are headed come seasons end.

I have to disagree, with the amount of players leaving come june, what we will be left with and less parachute payments, combine with FFP we will once again become unstable and our decline will once again begin.

We need promotion this season no matter what it takes.