Steve Bruce

[VillanousOne]

We have ground out some results usually by a single goal, by having a stubborn defence and possibly the best striker in the league. 

Even when we have won it has rarely been through possession and passing, not saying we don't have moments of brilliance but they are rare largely our midfield and attacking play is down to cameos rather than any kind of passing and movement. I was ok with that until we bought Hourihane and Lansbury, but nothing has really changed since they were involved.

If the season were to end tomorrow (and god i wish it would) who can we actually praise? Chester, Jed, Kodjia, maybe Hutton and Baker. That's five players out of an entire squad that have performed to any level of consistency. 

[mykeyb]

So if they produce some outstanding performances in the last few games we keep them and ignore their average at best performances during the season so far?

[DaveAV1]

11 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Whether you like them or not they are squad members on senior contracts. They are far more likely to feature next year than any individual youth team player. 

EDIT: or we have to decide to sell them. Basically we have to decide their futures now, can do that with youth team players another time. 

But surely we've seen enough of them over the years to know them by now? Where as with the obvious exception of next Sunday, the games left are sort of a free hit. People would be far more understanding of the value of playing a few kids with potential, than playing  the same old squad players. 

[Eastie]

2 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

But surely we've seen enough of them over the years to know them by now? Where as with the obvious exception of next Sunday, the games left are sort of a free hit. People would be far more understanding of the value of playing a few kids with potential, than playing  the same old squad players. 

play a few kids at Blackburn to send blues down

[VillanousOne]

8 minutes ago, mykeyb said:

So if they produce some outstanding performances in the last few games we keep them and ignore their average at best performances during the season so far?

was thinking more that I don't know if that is down to Bruce or the squad, or both.

[sharkyvilla]

1 hour ago, vreitti said:

What makes you think that? Honest question. Please don't reference his 4 earlier promotions.

Just when I look at the players we will have for next season, we will most likely have the back 5 that largely went 9 games barely conceding, we will probably be able to sign a back up for Jedinak, Kodjia won't be at the AFCON.  I think we will win a lot of games on that basis but it will be a bit boring.  The core of a promotion side is there.

[USA_Villa]

3 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said:

Just when I look at the players we will have for next season, we will most likely have the back 5 that largely went 9 games barely conceding, we will probably be able to sign a back up for Jedinak, Kodjia won't be at the AFCON.  I think we will win a lot of games on that basis but it will be a bit boring.  The core of a promotion side is there.

I'm struggling to see how you think the promotion core is here. We scored 45 goals, the lowest of any team in the top 18. 

[markavfc40]

41 minutes ago, VillanousOne said:

If the season were to end tomorrow (and god i wish it would) who can we actually praise? Chester, Jed, Kodjia, maybe Hutton and Baker. That's five players out of an entire squad that have performed to any level of consistency. 

I think that is what comes with so much chopping and changing though isn't it. The turnover in players in the last 9 months has been unreal. Then you throw into the mix working under two managers and numerous coaching staff and you are left with what a lot of the time looks like a disjointed mess. 

On paper Lansbury, Jedinak and Hourihane looks a great blend for a midfield three but hasn't clicked. They have probably started less than 10 games together though. On paper Kodjia and Hogan look as good a front two as any in the division but they have played less than a handful of full games together so haven't formed anything like a partnership. The only area on the pitch that has had some continuity is at centre back and Chester and Baker have arguably been two of our best performers.

I know some don't want to hear it but what this club desperately needs is some continuity and a period of stability and that has to come from having a manager for more than a few months before making a change. You clearly can't have continuity for continuity sake but I think backing a guy with four promotions on his CV, the last of which was 10 months ago, isn't advocating continuity for the sake of it. For me we have to give him a pre season, we have to give time for the likes of Bree, Hourihane, Hogan, Lansbury, Taylor, who have been here a couple of months, to settle and to form relationships/understandings on the pitch with the rest of the squad most of whom have been here for under 9 months.

The last thing this club needs is to rip the whole thing up again. Have another new manger and coaching staff come in almost certainly leading to another overhaul of the squad and quite possibly another season of transition. The one thing Brighton, Newcastle, Huddersfield (three teams in mix for automatic promotion) have in common is they all have managers who have been at their clubs for over a year. Who had pre seasons. I think given Bruce's CV he warrants being given that time and thankfully I think that the club are of the same opinion.

Edited April 17, 2017 by markavfc40

[Nigel]

The cold hard truth is that we have a better chance of being promoted with Bruce being in charge next season. It definately won't be pretty but the man strings results together.

If anybody could name me a manager we could get with better credentials I'd like to hear.....

[DCJonah]

46 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Not really. I doubt anybody is sincerely motivated by finishing in the top ten. It means nothing. I think it's just a thing you say to have something to say to be honest. 

Is it?

I haven't heard many managers use the phrase "we have to finish in the top 10"

Regardless of if it's something to say. The manager stated a target, if he can't get his players to perform to meet his target then IMO that's a bad sign. 

 

[Godders]

9 minutes ago, USA_Villa said:

I'm struggling to see how you think the promotion core is here. We scored 45 goals, the lowest of any team in the top 18. 

We've also conceded 46, a defensive stat bettered by only 3 teams at this stage. 

I'm with Sharky. We have a core there. Work needs to be done, of course, but there is a core there.

[HanoiVillan]

4 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Is it?

I haven't heard many managers use the phrase "we have to finish in the top 10"

Regardless of if it's something to say. The manager stated a target, if he can't get his players to perform to meet his target then IMO that's a bad sign. 

 

Yes IMO. I think it would be considered poor form, from both a PR and a ticket sales point of view, to answer an interviewer by saying, 'well, now we aren't going to get promoted and we can't be relegated so there's not much left to play for'. 

You can be annoyed if you want. However, we see this every year, in every division, that teams with nothing to play for get poorer results than their league position would suggest in garbage time at the end of the season. Nor does motivation only come from the manager - I hope you don't expect your boss to provide 100% of your motivation at work - so even if that were a particular issue (which obviously we disagree about) it would be a collective issue, not only on the manager's doorstep. 

[VillanousOne]

15 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

I think that is what comes with so much chopping and changing though isn't it. The turnover in players in the last 9 months has been unreal. Then you throw into the mix working under two managers and numerous coaching staff and you are left with what a lot of the time looks like a disjointed mess. 

On paper Lansbury, Jedinak and Hourihane looks a great blend for a midfield three but hasn't clicked. They have probably started less than 10 games together though. On paper Kodjia and Hogan look as good a front two as any in the division but they have played less than a handful of full games together so haven't formed anything like a partnership. The only area on the pitch that has had some continuity is at centre back and Chester and Baker have arguably been two of our best performers.

I know some don't want to hear it but what this club desperately needs is some continuity and a period of stability and that has to come from having a manager for more than a few months before making a change. You clearly can't have continuity for continuity sake but I think backing a guy with four promotions on his CV, the last of which was 10 months ago, isn't advocating continuity for the sake of it. For me we have to give him a pre season, we have to give time for the likes of Bree, Hourihane, Hogan, Lansbury, Taylor, who have been here a couple of months, to settle and to form relationships/understandings on the pitch with the rest of the squad most of whom have been here for under 9 months.

The last thing this club needs is to rip the whole thing up again. Have another new manger and coaching staff come in almost certainly leading to another overhaul of the squad and quite possibly another season of transition. The one thing Brighton, Newcastle, Huddersfield (three teams in mix for automatic promotion) have in common is they all have managers who have been at their clubs for over a year. Who had pre seasons. I think given Bruce's CV he warrants being given that time and thankfully I think that the club are of the same opinion.

I hope you are right I really do. I haven't seen any real signs of progress under Bruce but maybe that takes time and patience. I think if after a pre-season we aren't at least in the top 6 come January then what little good will and patience there is left amongst the fans will have gone.

[HanoiVillan]

39 minutes ago, mykeyb said:

So if they produce some outstanding performances in the last few games we keep them and ignore their average at best performances during the season so far?

 

37 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

But surely we've seen enough of them over the years to know them by now? Where as with the obvious exception of next Sunday, the games left are sort of a free hit. People would be far more understanding of the value of playing a few kids with potential, than playing  the same old squad players. 

These are fair questions. I'm not saying - haven't said - that the selections were perfect or that he made the optimal number of youths vs squad players. But playing devil's advocate here, players are financial assets to a football club and we have more tied up in squad players than we do in youth teamers. The decisions are more important. Maybe the manager wanted to see how they reacted if they were told they were playing for their futures. 

I don't know. All I said in the first place was, the decision to play them wasn't illogical. And I don't think it was. 

[Dodgyknees]

2 hours ago, Johnnyp said:

Brighton and Newcastle play a high paced, energy based game and retain possession and can move the ball into dangerous positions quickly.  Villa are so slow and ponderous on the ball, we make it up as we go along. I just cannot see this changing under Bruce. 

It's been that way for years, bar a small period under Sherwood. Something isn't right on the training pitch or the wrong messages are being given.

[DCJonah]

3 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Yes IMO. I think it would be considered poor form, from both a PR and a ticket sales point of view, to answer an interviewer by saying, 'well, now we aren't going to get promoted and we can't be relegated so there's not much left to play for'. 

You can be annoyed if you want. However, we see this every year, in every division, that teams with nothing to play for get poorer results than their league position would suggest in garbage time at the end of the season. Nor does motivation only come from the manager - I hope you don't expect your boss to provide 100% of your motivation at work - so even if that were a particular issue (which obviously we disagree about) it would be a collective issue, not only on the manager's doorstep. 

Well like i said, i haven't heard many managers say we have to finish in the top 10. Have you? 

Yes, professionals should have self motivation but we know in this sport a large source of this comes from the manager

TBH it seems a weak excuse for Bruce that the players were on the beach. We've played poorly for weeks, difference is kodjia scoring a goal and us hanging on. Today, like the last couple of games we couldn't do that. 

Nothing to do with players giving up for the season.

[terrytini]

2 hours ago, mykeyb said:

Again what's his points total in 2017? Or since he took over on day one. Let's not be selective about which bits of his tenure we want to use.

I'm not being selective about anything. How silly.

Im simply saying they'd look daft sacking him after the run we've had. If you disagree,fine.

[HanoiVillan]

Just now, DCJonah said:

Well like i said, i haven't heard many managers say we have to finish in the top 10. Have you? 

Yes, professionals should have self motivation but we know in this sport a large source of this comes from the manager

TBH it seems a weak excuse for Bruce that the players were on the beach. We've played poorly for weeks, difference is kodjia scoring a goal and us hanging on. Today, like the last couple of games we couldn't do that. 

Nothing to do with players giving up for the season.

As always, you and I disagree and there's no chance of either of us persuading the other. Let's leave it there. 

[DCJonah]

Just now, HanoiVillan said:

As always, you and I disagree and there's no chance of either of us persuading the other. Let's leave it there. 

Then why respond in the first place?

I'm not trying to persuade you, it's a discussion, not an intervention. I don't need you to change your mind to sleep well tonight. 

[Dodgyknees]

1 hour ago, villakram said:

Go on Steve, piss off back to the blues. You're not wanted here.

I don't agree with all the comments (Grasshopper and others) but I respect their opinion because they have reasoned and logical views on wanting Bruce out. Wanting him out and back to the shit because he once managed them is neither reasoned or logical.