Steve Bruce

[Demitri_C]

7 hours ago, Kiwivillan said:

Can't remember where I read it. Probably not here maybe Facebook comment but was said Bruce leaves training to the coach and just picks the team and shouts instructions on match day. Any itk confirmation on this? Performances and article I posted earlier in this thread point to "motivator" and not tactician

Unless someone is actually there spying during training or knows a first team player/coaching staff. How would they know? Sounds like complete bollox just to beat bruce even further with a stick

[LondonLax]

13 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Unless someone is actually there spying during training or knows a first team player/coaching staff. How would they know? Sounds like complete bollox just to beat bruce even further with a stick

That was MON's management style. It is more common than you think and it wouldn't be unusual if Bruce did this. 

[Lerner's Driver]

@Grasshopper interested to hear your thoughts on Steve Bruce.

Are you for or against him and can you back up your views with evidence?

 

[Stevo985]

10 hours ago, Grasshopper said:

I always give reasoning to what I have as an opinion.

for example

I've explained why its irrelevant.

You have just dismissed my saying its irrelevant by writing

But to dismiss them as "irrelevant" is crazy. Of course they're relevant

you just state I'm crazy without even explaining why they are relevant.

because IF they were in fact relevant we'd be on our way to promotion this season But we are NOT.

I didn't fuly explain because I thought it was obvious. It's like preparing for a race with Usain Bolt tomorrow and saying his Olympic Gold Medals are irrelevant.

Bruce's previous promotions are relevant because it shows he has the ability as a manager to get promoted from this league as recently as last season.

If we had an unproven or evidently poor manager in charge, with no record of promotion or success at any clubs, and we were in our current run of form then it might be more of a cause for concern as there would be no evidence that the manager in charge could get promotion regardless of how long we give him.

But having a manager in charge who clearly has the managerial capability to get out of this league is obviously relevant to our situation. It would suggest that whilst it is by no means a guarantee, there's a pretty good chance that with a good squad and a bit of time he'll have us back in the prem.

Hopefully this particular disagreement with your opinion hasn't offended you too much.

Edited February 9, 2017 by Stevo985

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

8 minutes ago, Lerner's Driver said:

@Grasshopper interested to hear your thoughts on Steve Bruce.

Are you for or against him and can you back up your views with evidence?

 

To be fair to one of my arch nemesis' @Grasshopper, he has actually gone into great detail about his views on the subject throughout the thread.

- Doesn't mean I necessarily agree with all his views.

Edited February 9, 2017 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[delboy54]

I am of the "Give SB a chance".

Yes the football has been uninspiring a lot of the time under his watch, but he now has got some of his own players in and needs time to develop a style of football that was obviously not possible with the squad that he inherited....for whatever reason.

However interestingly I have read elsewhere that he leaves the actual coaching stuff to the coaches, which then suggests what does he do?....tactics? ...no idea. I wonder if this is true and if it is, is how modern football managers work nowadays? - in which case the coaches are to blame as much as the manager.

If we look at football as a business then if the manager is not doing the job (promotion - success etc etc) then he will be moved out and another manager bought in, thats how it is and football is no different these days to big business in my opinion.

What I want is Villa to play attractive and exciting football, and win games by more than 1 goal and not let in any last minute goals.

All the best

Del

[hippo]

I thought the manager leaving at least a pretty considerable chunk of the training to the coaching staff was pretty much the norm these days....

[hippo]

1 minute ago, delboy54 said:

I am of the "Give SB a chance".

Yes the football has been uninspiring a lot of the time under his watch, but he now has got some of his own players in and needs time to develop a style of football that was obviously not possible with the squad that he inherited....for whatever reason.

However interestingly I have read elsewhere that he leaves the actual coaching stuff to the coaches, which then suggests what does he do?....tactics? ...no idea. I wonder if this is true and if it is, is how modern football managers work nowadays? - in which case the coaches are to blame as much as the manager.

If we look at football as a business then if the manager is not doing the job (promotion - success etc etc) then he will be moved out and another manager bought in, thats how it is and football is no different these days to big business in my opinion.

What I want is Villa to play attractive and exciting football, and win games by more than 1 goal and not let in any last minute goals.

All the best

Del

My concern with all that - the goalkeeper....his goalkeeper 

We played great against preston - but we have a keeper who just doesn't save anything unless its straight at him - IMO that will undermine the whole team.

 

 

[dont_do_it_doug.]

He has 15 games to win me back. 

I'll only be passing comment until then, not judgement. 

[TRO]

4 hours ago, Regista said:

Correct, as mentioned further down the thread it is an assumption, but one I am fairly certain about. 

That is based on how all Steve Bruce teams have played over the years. The point I was trying to make is that the evidence suggests that we do not have a system and a way of playing when we take to the field. Modern day managers and tactically astute coaches will drill in methods/sequences that would be obvious to see are being attempted from watching a game, and that's from day one! They might not start to be effective with these straight away but a few months in you would see evidence of a system starting to be understood.

My concern at the minute is there is a formation on match day, a team picked, and a consensus to 'go out there and give 100%' with no real game plan. 

When you say I am 'speculating', I would agree but also add I am speculating and judging on what evidence I have seen on the football pitch so far, and that is a team who appear to be playing with no ideas of how to attack as a team. A proportion of our goals have come from individual brilliance. 

I am convinced a lot if it falls down to not having a tactically astute management team in place, no matter how many people come back with that's just 'speculating/assuming'. One thing is certain though is that even with a man manager here like Bruce we should still be doing a lot better, but I feel the players brought in do not suit this. We will see an improvement but I feel we won't ever be playing positive football under him, and we now actually have the players to do that. 

Be interesting to see how this plays out 'til the end of the season. UTV

 

 

 

It will be interesting how it develops.

I still think it's too early after changing so many players, I also think in Jedinak being a dedicated DM(enforcer) is very much missed, we have gone from no attacking midfielders to 3 and no DM

We are all anxious for our next win and this run of results has created anger and frustrated the hell out of us.....some of us did say the road to progress, would be peaks and troughs.....It was not long ago, we was presiding of a good few wins, performances were not there, but the results had grit and determination, which sadly seems to have subsided since the Cardiff game.

Where I differ from you I put more emphasis on balance and playing together, than tactics....new players learning each other's game.

I do not subscribe to the theory, that with all the experience at BMH they are all tactically naive......I don't buy that.

The way the players are playing at present, is not to instruction, that is clear in SB's match day body language.

The  best managerial tactician will not compensate for players not doing their job.

The problem we all have.....is we want/ need a win and little run of wins will take away some of the negative speculation we all engage in when we are losing.

 

Edited February 9, 2017 by TRO

[Stevo985]

1 hour ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

He has 15 games to win me back. 

I'll only be passing comment until then, not judgement. 

I wouldn't say he needs to win me back, but I agree on the time scale.

He needs to improve things and that's how long he has to do it (again, barring an absolute disaster. If we lost the next 6 or 7 games in a row then it would change my mind!)

[Grasshopper]

3 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

To be fair to one of my arch nemesis' @Grasshopper, he has actually gone into great detail about his views on the subject throughout the thread.

- Doesn't mean I necessarily agree with all his views.

a bit of a wind up there.

Or he wanted a good read

But

WHY DONT YOU AGREE WITH ME? grrrrrrrr

[Grasshopper]

IF -

Bruce isnt doing much/very little work with the coaches at training, then come matchday they are not "doing as he told them" then he needs to spend more time working with them.

[NurembergVillan]

[Grasshopper]

All that this "Trumpism" is doing is deflecting attention away from what the Lobbyists are brewing up behind the scenes.

Bit like our performances on matchdays, whilst at BMH the world is a differnt place.

[terrytini]

I've said my piece on Mr B so a slight change of emphasis here.

We have no chance of promotion now. Doesn't matter at the moment whose fault that is.

But there is only one way left to enjoy a match this season....really after the negative excitement of the last three years and the hopeful excitement of the first half of this my own feelings are I almost can't stand the idea of going, it's going to be hard to get any adrenaline flowing with the only real issue being to make sure we don't get relegated.

As such, and in order to make nextvs a son worth looking forward to, all I now want is good football, something to get the pulse racing.

I won't criticise him if we don't win much as long as we play some football ( which incidentally is what I think he needs to get us doing anyway)....results no longer interest me anywhere near as much as quality.

Fingers crossed.

[ender4]

1 hour ago, terrytini said:

I've said my piece on Mr B so a slight change of emphasis here.

We have no chance of promotion now. Doesn't matter at the moment whose fault that is.

But there is only one way left to enjoy a match this season....really after the negative excitement of the last three years and the hopeful excitement of the first half of this my own feelings are I almost can't stand the idea of going, it's going to be hard to get any adrenaline flowing with the only real issue being to make sure we don't get relegated.

As such, and in order to make nextvs a son worth looking forward to, all I now want is good football, something to get the pulse racing.

I won't criticise him if we don't win much as long as we play some football ( which incidentally is what I think he needs to get us doing anyway)....results no longer interest me anywhere near as much as quality.

Fingers crossed.

interesting. 

i'm think i'm the opposite. 

Now we know that we aren't getting promoted, all i want to see is us win some bloody games. Get some enjoyment into the football not from pretty football, but just from the enjoyment of winning.

If we played fantastic football and still lost, i'd still leave the match depressed,   If we won ugly in the 89th minute, i'd leave with my heart and pulse racing feeling on top of the world.   (assuming i watch us again this season, and that needs us to be winning to get me back)

Edited February 9, 2017 by ender4

[Grasshopper]

I'm with @terrytini

We cant WIN promotion anymore unless....... 

So we should, whoever the manager is, be going on the pitch to dominate and dictate the game.

If we make mistakes which cost goals, results and points, then lets make them this season and learn from them for next season.

We should use these games to develop our play - why that seems so hard I'll never understand, but anyway - so that we hit the ground running and win this shithole of a league or at least come 2nd.

PS thinking about it - 2nd place - wtf?

BHA & Toon are going up Leeds will probably win the playoffs (imho)

So we'll be competing with

Reading, Hudds, Derby, Fulham & S'land, Hull and CP (imho)

WTF??????? 

[Demitri_C]

7 minutes ago, Grasshopper said:

I'm with @terrytini

We cant WIN promotion anymore unless....... 

So we should, whoever the manager is, be going on the pitch to dominate and dictate the game.

If we make mistakes which cost goals, results and points, then lets make them this season and learn from them for next season.

We should use these games to develop our play - why that seems so hard I'll never understand, but anyway - so that we hit the ground running and win this shithole of a league or at least come 2nd.

PS thinking about it - 2nd place - wtf?

BHA & Toon are going up Leeds will probably win the playoffs (imho)

So we'll be competing with

Reading, Hudds, Derby, Fulham & S'land, Hull and CP (imho)

WTF??????? 

Tbh for promotion next season might be better if derby went up ahead Leeds.  Leeds are broke and I think their owner is in trouble so monk in theory shouldn't be able to keep the momentum next season.  Monk will probably getanother job if Leeds dont go up this year. I don't think Huddersfield will be up there either.

Think we should in theory be in the mix with any of the relegated teams, Sheffield Wednesday, Norwich, Derby (if none of those go up)

Edited February 9, 2017 by Demitri_C

[Grasshopper]

3 hours ago, Grasshopper said:

- Doesn't mean I necessarily agree with all his views.

You know you want to