Steve Bruce

[TRO]

21 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

Right now yes, but he has to show a lot more over the remainder of the season to prove why he deserves to be here past the summer. 

I think even he knows that.

when I talk about "Decent Fella", some scoff at that.....but he is the sort of character, if he thought he couldn't do it for us , he would walk.

I genuinely believe that,........ but I also think he really wants this job.

[Grasshopper]

2 minutes ago, briny_ear said:

Personally, I think E, F and G are worth a look - must be in with a shout?

I appreciate my set up for sarcasm, so a like for you.

However, I'm being serious. Things need sorting/clearing out. A blueprint of how we intend to reach our potential has to be forthcoming.

Because, the clubs future history doesnt ends at the end of Bruces tenure or DrT's ownership.

[terrytini]

Must admit (with a wry smile) it's interesting how people now arguing a Manager must be given time we're on my case for suggesting the same with RDM 

And whoever it was said he didn't agree with those suggesting sooner or later it would click and we would really take some teams apart....nobody has ever said that about Bruce, it was under RDM that - until his last couple of games - people thought that .

One was too fragile but we looked threatening half the time, the other looks solid over half the time but never threatening.

C'est la vie !!

[TRO]

Since the spell with John Gregory in '98-2002, only Martin O'Neill has presided over anything decent in terms of results and performances.....Thats 15 years of mediocrity and worse.

There has been a plethora of reasons why that is, but the last 15 years has been a pretty dismal place for a villa fan.....just false dawns and promises.

The club average for manager wins is c42%, that is even taking in those halcyon days under George Ramsay.....Martin achieved 42% and Steve after 12 games was at 41%

The moving thing for me, is the loyal and passionate support that those fans have shown, during those dark days.....quite amazing.

I am in my 60's, so its been easy for me to support Villa 

Through the c15 years of Crowe- Saunders-Barton

Then the c15 years of Taylor-Atkinson- Little & Gregory

I have been well served by the club and respective managers, so I am very grateful.

So I do feel for the present day fan and I appreciate some, haven't got forever to wait......But I do think he will produce for us and I know folk scoff at " he needs time"

He knows what is wrong.....He has been given some money......now he needs the time and support from us for him to deliver.

UTV

Edited February 2, 2017 by TRO

[kurtsimonw]

3 minutes ago, terrytini said:

Must admit (with a wry smile) it's interesting how people now arguing a Manager must be given time we're on my case for suggesting the same with RDM 

The situations aren't really comparable for me.

Di Matteo had a summer to prepare, which certainly helps. Admittedly a bunch of players were signed once the season started, but he had 2 months with them and still there was nothing. 1 win in 11, which was against the leagues whipping boys. 

Bruce won 6 more games than RDM, in 6 more games as manager. That was without a summer to prepare, that was without any of his own signings. If in another 6 weeks or so Bruce has only won 1 game - even though his overall record would still be much better than RDMs, I don't think you'd have many people arguing too much about giving him more time. 

[TRO]

12 minutes ago, terrytini said:

Must admit (with a wry smile) it's interesting how people now arguing a Manager must be given time we're on my case for suggesting the same with RDM 

And whoever it was said he didn't agree with those suggesting sooner or later it would click and we would really take some teams apart....nobody has ever said that about Bruce, it was under RDM that - until his last couple of games - people thought that .

One was too fragile but we looked threatening half the time, the other looks solid over half the time but never threatening.

C'est la vie !!

well Terry 

Steve Bruce has a win ratio of 41% after 12 games

RDM had a win ratio of 8.3% after 12 games

with all the bits of mitigation that Bruce can justifiably claim.

Stats, i can take them or leave them, to be honest, but that is quite revealing in my mind......and a case for suggesting more time for Bruce is the sensible call.

[GENTLEMAN]

39 minutes ago, terrytini said:

Must admit (with a wry smile) it's interesting how people now arguing a Manager must be given time we're on my case for suggesting the same with RDM 

And whoever it was said he didn't agree with those suggesting sooner or later it would click and we would really take some teams apart....nobody has ever said that about Bruce, it was under RDM that - until his last couple of games - people thought that .

One was too fragile but we looked threatening half the time, the other looks solid over half the time but never threatening.

C'est la vie !!

Joint management team?

[terrytini]

But either people need time or they don't. The rest is semantics.

Bruces return in his last 10 games ( no small number) is the same as RDMs last ten.

As for the other argument about 'pre season etc' I don't buy either. Could just as easily be argued that by inheriting the mess he did RDMs pre season was harder than Bruce inheriting a team already playing, plus several lplayers came late so they had no pre season ....etc etc it's swings and roundabouts. Fact is Managers should get half a season, anything less is bonkrrs, as people are now pointing out with Bruce. 

Anyway I endured a lot of pain for my view we should've stuck with him so allow me at least a little ho back!!

 

[kurtsimonw]

A pre-season definitely helps. You can work in a system far more easily through training, pre-season games, etc. The fact he still had no clue in October meant he had to go. Would've been mad to keep him IMO.

[Eastie]

Promotion or bust next season is the way I see it for Steve Bruce and possibly for us in general - if we don't get it right next season then we could be in for a long spell in this league.

personally I believe we will do next season what Brighton are doing this season - I'm hoping we finish the season with a good run and get off to a flier come August .

[VILLAMARV]

4 hours ago, romavillan said:

Spot on, I'd snap your arm off right now for finsihing 10th in the Premiership in the 2018/2019 season. The type of player an ambitious club in the that position with an upward momentum can attract (and manager if it looks like that really is Bruce's ceiling) is a bit different to a club that is still staggering drunkenly on the edge of the abyss after falling down ten flights of stairs to find itself mid table and cut adrift in the Championship. The face we have been able to attract the players we have in Jan speaks volumes for the club's ambitions but we haven't shown much more than halting the incredible decline so far.

I don't know if Bruce's ceiling is halfway up the Prem or not, he won the top prizes as a player so he must know what a winning top flight club is all about. I do know that what I saw against Brentford would do well not to get relegated to League One. The making or breaking of Bruce is his work from now till the end of the season. Not in terms of getting promoted but in making a team that has an identity and can actually play football without looking like a bunch of randoms thrown together five minutes before kick off.

This, but times a millionty. Especially the ending. Chill the *swear word filter not needed it's ok this time Limpid* out people. Sink or Swim time Brucey.

[kurtsimonw]

35 minutes ago, Eastie said:

Promotion or bust next season is the way I see it for Steve Bruce and possibly for us in general - if we don't get it right next season then we could be in for a long spell in this league.

personally I believe we will do next season what Brighton are doing this season - I'm hoping we finish the season with a good run and get off to a flier come August .

Playoffs or bust, maybe. Finishing top 2 is tough in this league and if he were to get 80 points next season I wouldn't be saying he deserves the sack.

[Stevo985]

2 hours ago, terrytini said:

Must admit (with a wry smile) it's interesting how people now arguing a Manager must be given time we're on my case for suggesting the same with RDM 

And whoever it was said he didn't agree with those suggesting sooner or later it would click and we would really take some teams apart....nobody has ever said that about Bruce, it was under RDM that - until his last couple of games - people thought that .

One was too fragile but we looked threatening half the time, the other looks solid over half the time but never threatening.

C'est la vie !!

I also gave RDM more time than most, but the two situations are in no way comparable.

10 games down the line, if we're still in the form we're in now, then serious questions should, and will, be asked.

[TRO]

If our team can play technically like a prem' side and the attitude and desire of a Championship side.

we won't be far away from turning this around.

[markavfc40]

2 hours ago, Grasshopper said:

....I would like to add

If the men of influence really have a plan, they already know who Y is if X dont work.

You really think Xia, Wyness, Round should have a plan for who to replace Bruce if they sacked him now? I mean seriously who would we attract? I doubt it would be someone in work because if Bruce were to be sacked now that would be two managers sacked in 4 months the second of which after inheriting someone else's struggling squad took 25 points in his first 17 games. We would look like a basket case of a football club and no one half decent would leave another club to risk it here.

We'd almost certainly then be looking at managers out of work. Maybe Rowett who has a couple of decent Championship seasons on his CV, no promotions and no experience at working at a big club, maybe Pardew similar experience to Bruce although nowhere near the level of success in the Championship, or maybe someone can suggest a decent foreign manager who is out of work.

For me for where are now and where we initially want to go I think we have the best man. I thought that in October and despite a poor period I think it now. His record overall proves that and more importantly I guess his recent managerial record confirms he is not yesterdays man as some have suggested. 

No one can deny we have been in a poor period of results and performances but Bruce at least has acknowledged that, said it as it is after games, no dressing up poor performances and no bullshit, he has seen the games we have all seen. Off the back of his four months as a whole he has identified the weaknesses and has acted and overhauled the squad. Over the coming weeks we will now get to see his team, in his favoured formation and he should then be judged accordingly.

Edited February 2, 2017 by markavfc40

[Czechlad]

19 hours ago, markavfc40 said:

Just to balance that we have lost 6 as well.

I am not suggesting you are doing this but I have seen it suggested that Calderwood is the issue and should be replaced but I am not sure what people are basing that on. Before he came in we had only played a handful of games under Bruce and it was all still very new as he assembled his staff.

Calderwood came with a decent reputation. Had worked alongside Hughton when Newcastle got promoted, had a successful season with him last year at Brighton and a very good start to this one.

During a poor run it is easy to point the finger at all sorts of things but the buck stops with the manager so if Calderwood is crap or not up to the job then regardless it is still on Bruce to identify that and replace him. So far he hasn't so I'd suggest he isn't the issue and the issue lies with the players we have been putting on the pitch and the failure to find a settled side and formation. Hopefully with the recent additions that will now start to change.

Good points. Mine was just a general question because I remember reading on here that our record since Calderwood came in has been poor. Not sure if any correlation because we did also lose Kodjia and Ayew during that time period. Plus we had #gategate happen which definitely didn't help. 

[sne]

I hope and expect Xia and his people are scouting and searching for a long term manager to take over in the summer.

Bruce was a sensible choice on paper to take over after Di Matteo when he was sacked. It was during season and we didn't have much time to find a new manager. He was out of work and he's gotten teams promoted before so why not give him a go. At that time was the right choice.

I do however feel that long term Bruce is not a good choice, nor do I think (hope) Bruce is the choice they would make if given more time. Like come the summer.

Last summer Xia was an unknown entity when it comes to football (I was highly sceptical if he actually was legit, boy was I wrong) so it's understandable that Di Matteo might have been the best they could find.

But now Xia has shown himself to be more ambitious than most owners in football. We have outspent everyone except maybe 10 clubs in the world since he took over and I don't doubt Xia might be willing to spend some more if allowed by FFP and under the right circumstances.

That's why I don't see it impossible for us to find a high quality manager to take over in the summer should they decide that Bruce is not up to par.

Even under Lerner we were willing to pay top dollars to managers, sure Xia will too if the right target is available. Managers are no different from players when it comes to money.

Obviously we can't get the top managers, or the most sought after ones in the world. But I believe we can be far more ambitious than Steve Bruce and still get our man.

I don't believe our only options will be out of work Championship managers, or that we have to fish in the shallow gene pool for someone to bite.

Bruce should obviously remain for the rest of the season (unless they have some #1 target who happens to get available) to see if he can build something here. It would be unfair to him not to let him have a proper go with this new team.

But I don't wan't him for the long run.

 

 

[theboyangel]

I think we have to have a serious review at the end of the season before making any hasty decisions re Bruce. 

If we gel, get a run going and look likely to be amongst the promotion candidates next season then I'd give Bruce that opportunity. 

However, if we continue in this recent form then we may have to reassess our options. 

[AntrimBlack]

Unfortunately that is our season over now, so going to be very boring until the summer.

[AntrimBlack]

1 minute ago, theboyangel said:

I think we have to have a serious review at the end of the season before making any hasty decisions re Bruce. 

If we gel, get a run going and look likely to be amongst the promotion candidates next season then I'd give Bruce that opportunity. 

However, if we continue in this recent form then we may have to reassess our options. 

If we do not get up next season, we could stagnate in the Championship for years. Depressing thought.