Arsenal

[villaglint]

I felt last night was very conservative for the most part from Arsenal. They were really just trying to play on the break and really admitting they couldn't go toe to toe with Barcelona. It looked good for a half but the slightest lapse and the whole thing unravels as it did in the second half. Could have been much much worse if it wasn't for Cech.

Kind of surprising as others have said as its not in their DNA and the last time they went toe to toe with Barcelona at home they ended up winning. However it wasn't a million miles away from working so perhaps understandable.

Have to say I thoroughly enjoyed it with the Wembley and Emirates trips last year still fresh in my mind. It is pleasing to see the law of the jungle applies and while they smash us there is always someone out there who can equally destroy their dreams.

Ps if anyone has the brainware to make a GIF of that Giroud chance/pass for a goal kick that would be much appreciated I quite like to watch that a few hundreds times and smile with bitter glee.

[PaulC]

11 hours ago, VillaChris said:

Only English side that can beat Barca is Chelsea. 

Did it in 2012 and were a minute off doing it in 2009 aswell.

Obviously this team is on another level and Chelsea aren't great but I'd still be interested if that say is a quarter final tie as Chelsea can dig in and disrupt things, it isn't in Arsenal's DNA really.

Chelsea were incredibly lucky. This Barcelona team doesn't dominate game like the pep one, but they have the front 3 which is probably the best ever, and the rest just play for them. You can't stop them from scoring unless they have an off day.

[Zatman]

Arsenal have tried play that way in big games in last season or 2, they did it to City last season and it worked

[villa4europe]

i thought biscuits showed arsenal exactly what they're missing last night, the bloke is absolutely world class, wins the ball, wins free kicks, reads the game superbly, i think most importantly understands and plays within his own limits and the team requirements, lynchpin in that team

people will say about the antics, and moan about barca's antics last night, sorry but thats european and international football, it isnt an excuse for arsenal IMO, they should have the experience to manage it

[BOF]

It is possible to acknowledge that that is the nature of European and International football, and still be entitled to moan about it

[Zatman]

but it isnt just European and international football, Vardy, Rooney and Gerrard have been known to go down easy and cheat among others

sadly its part of the game now

[Stevo985]

35 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

i thought biscuits showed arsenal exactly what they're missing last night, the bloke is absolutely world class, wins the ball, wins free kicks, reads the game superbly, i think most importantly understands and plays within his own limits and the team requirements, lynchpin in that team

One of my favourite players.

Absolute, total bellend.

But he is world class at what he does.

[PaulC]

Busquets is a key player for Barcelona but lets be honest, even with Busquets in the Arsenal side they would still get beaten by Barcelona. If they had gone the extra dollar and paid Liverpool what Suarez was worth then they might have a chance in these big matches. 

[villa4europe]

spin it the other way, what would arsenal be if they had busquets?

it would be in a different way but i think he'd be a similar leap forward in terms of the overall quality of that team

[gordoncharles]

I'm at a bit of a loss regarding some of the comments about this game. Arsenal, of course, should be aspiring to engage with the continent's elite. Does anyone actually watch any of Barcelona's games? I'm not trying to be clever it's a straightforward question. I watch a lot of Spanish football but I doubt many do and that includes people who write on football for a living. This is a typical sort of comment from the Telegraph " The welcome was not the sort they often receive in Spain, with an open pitch and befuddled opponents."

Note the terminology. Here's something you won't read; Barcelona away from home is a very different proposition from that which is presented on their own ground. This season Barcelona have only beaten a side on their travels by more than 2 goals once (ironically at Real Madrid). So Arsenal's result ties them for practically worst result of the season. They'd won their last four away games but very unconvincingly and in my view both Las Palmas and Levante, who are in both in the bottom three in Spain, put up a better showing and created a lot more chances than Arsenal did last night. Yet Arsenal are supposed to have done quite well? With a team that had been rested whilst Barcelona played their full first team last Saturday in a game that needed a 2,700 mile round trip (longer than the trip they then made to London). So much for fixture congestion.

Yes, Barcelona wins games these days not by possession, but by relying on inevitable moments of quality that the world's three best players can provide, but both Celta Vigo and Athletic Bilbao have hammered them this season. Arsenal seemed to have the plucky underdog mentality. They were starstruck and beaten before kick off.

[Stevo985]

To be fair, it's completely reasonable that Barcelona were more fired up for an away game in the knockout stages of the Champions league than they would be in an away game vs Las Palmas.

I don't think you can use the logic that because Barcelona have performed poorly on the road in la liga that automatically means their performance in this game was a similar level.

I watch Barcelona fairly regularly. And I watched the game last night. And I thought Arsenal did do well for an hour and should have been ahead, probably by two goals, before they fell apart a bit.

[gordoncharles]

1 hour ago, Stevo985 said:

To be fair, it's completely reasonable that Barcelona were more fired up for an away game in the knockout stages of the Champions league than they would be in an away game vs Las Palmas.

I don't think you can use the logic that because Barcelona have performed poorly on the road in la liga that automatically means their performance in this game was a similar level.

I watch Barcelona fairly regularly. And I watched the game last night. And I thought Arsenal did do well for an hour and should have been ahead, probably by two goals, before they fell apart a bit.

I am saying they can be got at away from home far more than they can at home. If you don't think that's the case Stevo then I don't believe you have watching their games.  Arsenal had an opportunity and I give due deference to the idea that some matches are bigger than others, but I sense the old "un-competitive league" fallacy lurking there in your post.

They also had difficulty recently putting away a 9-man Atletico at the Camp Nou.

Arsenal could have been ahead by two goals, yes, if they took both those two chances they made. Equally Barcelona could have scored five. Aunts, uncles and that sort of thing.

[Stevo985]

10 minutes ago, gordoncharles said:

I am saying they can be got at away from home far more than they can at home. If you don't think that's the case Stevo then I don't believe you have watching their games.  Arsenal had an opportunity and I give due deference to the idea that some matches are bigger than others, but I sense the old "un-competitive league" fallacy lurking there in your post.

They also had difficulty recently putting away a 9-man Atletico at the Camp Nou.

Arsenal could have been ahead by two goals, yes, if they took both those two chances they made. Equally Barcelona could have scored five. Aunts, uncles and that sort of thing.

What I'm saying is the assumption that playing Barcelona away in the Champions League knockout stages is the same as playing Barcelona away in La Liga is probably flawed.

I don't disagree that Barcelona can be "got at" away from home based on their La Liga performances. My argument is that playing them in La Liga and playing them in the Champions League could be two completely different propositions.

Nothing to do with it being an inferior league at all. I think the Premier League is probably the inferior league in that comparison. It's more to do with them being 8 points clear in a league they're already the defending champions of.

They're likely to be more fired up in the knockout stages of the Champions League than in La Liga, that's all I'm saying, and so I don't think you can say Barcelona haven't been that great away from home in La Liga therefore Arsenal should have done better. You have to look at the game in a certain amount of isolation.

Edit: I also don't think struggling to put away Atletico is much of a slight given they've got one of the best defences I've ever seen this season and in that game they pretty much just reverted to playing two banks of four.

Edited February 24, 2016 by Stevo985

[gordoncharles]

Are we using the same logic to describe Arsenal's motivation?

Prior to last weekend's round, Barcelona were 6 points clear. Had they lost in Las Palmas they would have expected only to be 3 points clear by the end of the weekend, so I don't entirely accept your premise.

[Stevo985]

You're picking at the details. 6 points, 8 points, 3 points, that wasn't really the point. The point was they're probably more motivated for the champions league. Most teams would be.

Yes the same logic applies to Arsenal, of course. That doesn't change my point.

[PaulC]

1 hour ago, gordoncharles said:

I'm at a bit of a loss regarding some of the comments about this game. Arsenal, of course, should be aspiring to engage with the continent's elite. Does anyone actually watch any of Barcelona's games? I'm not trying to be clever it's a straightforward question. I watch a lot of Spanish football but I doubt many do and that includes people who write on football for a living. This is a typical sort of comment from the Telegraph " The welcome was not the sort they often receive in Spain, with an open pitch and befuddled opponents."

Note the terminology. Here's something you won't read; Barcelona away from home is a very different proposition from that which is presented on their own ground. This season Barcelona have only beaten a side on their travels by more than 2 goals once (ironically at Real Madrid). So Arsenal's result ties them for practically worst result of the season. They'd won their last four away games but very unconvincingly and in my view both Las Palmas and Levante, who are in both in the bottom three in Spain, put up a better showing and created a lot more chances than Arsenal did last night. Yet Arsenal are supposed to have done quite well? With a team that had been rested whilst Barcelona played their full first team last Saturday in a game that needed a 2,700 mile round trip (longer than the trip they then made to London). So much for fixture congestion.

Yes, Barcelona wins games these days not by possession, but by relying on inevitable moments of quality that the world's three best players can provide, but both Celta Vigo and Athletic Bilbao have hammered them this season. Arsenal seemed to have the plucky underdog mentality. They were starstruck and beaten before kick off.

Those two heavy defeats came early and pre-season so don't think they are too relevant to now. I admit that Las Palmas and Malaga played very well against them but in both those games Barcelona also missed a lot of chances.

[gordoncharles]

2 hours ago, PaulC said:

Those two heavy defeats came early and pre-season so don't think they are too relevant to now. I admit that Las Palmas and Malaga played very well against them but in both those games Barcelona also missed a lot of chances.

That's my point Paul, how you describe the matches against Las Palmas and Malaga is exactly the same as last night. However, in my view both the sides (and Levante for that matter) created more chances than Arsenal did.

There seems to be a feeling in general amongst those that don't look very hard that Barcelona win all their games 4 or 5 nil. I remember last year Terry Gibson (who covers Spanish football for Sky) complaining about that in some-or-other radio discussion he'd had with the un-informed expert Pat Nevin.

[PaulC]

Without a doubt they did. In my view Arsenal and other English don't have the winning mentality against the top European sides. Without a doubt Barcelona are much more beatable away. I haven't got BT Sports so couldn't watch last nights games so cant really comment but I watch all the la liga ones and from what i saw Malaga, las palmas had a really go at Barcelona and didn't give them time on the ball. I do think because Barcelona have that incredible strike trio they just think they can outscore teams no matter what, so they don't worry about defending too much.

[VillaJ100]

Agree with busquets being so important. When bayern destroyed them they did it by completely marking him out of the game

[penguin]

It's a strange game to evaluate. On one hand I think theres a case for Arsenal to feel unlucky, they looked the more dangerous (before the goal) and could have easily gone ahead but then Suarez really should have scored on the stroke of half time. Barcelona's quality won out in the end, they were never not going to score.