gharperr Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 (edited) 6 minutes ago, VillaChris said: They need to win it though this year surely? Chelsea will be miles better next season, Man. United under Mourinho will quickly become formidable again I'd suggest and obviously Man. City under Pep will be up there. Liverpool are too far behind but a couple of transfer windows under Klopp and he might produce a decent team. If Arsenal don't win it this year then when do they win it. They would be 12 years without a league title, it's about time. lol. just no though. c'mon. if youre target was to finish 2nd at start of year you cant just suddenly shift it half way through because some teams suck and some teams are massively over performing. Definition to results orientated thinking. you cant blame arsenal for other peoples **** up when people are massively over performing expectation. if arsenal dont win league/CL next season, then it is a failure. Given they have the money to compete now. Stop shifting expectations throughout season. 38 games is already not enough to determine whos the "true" winner or not. Dont shift it half way through imo (yes i realised i said the semi same thing through 6 sentences, but i dont know how to work it properly) Edited February 14, 2016 by gharperr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 4 minutes ago, gharperr said: easy to say now. +1 to villachris for starting walcott. ox is stupid af as a footballer. no idea why he started instead of walcott. although the +ve that ox has over walcott is magnified so much through campbell aa defensive contribution. (dont know if he was on bench though) Not sure if a sarcy post or not but with the 10 men Walcott was always going to get space regardless. I just thought after the 5-2 it was logical to start him as certain players fit certain games and opposition better. Giroud seems to be running into one of his can't hit a barn door run of games so think he could do with a bit of a breather and get him fresh for the run in especially with Welbeck now, you can start him v Man. United away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 1 minute ago, gharperr said: just no though. c'mon. if youre target was to finish 2nd at start of year you cant just suddenly shift it half way through because some teams suck and some teams are massively over performing. Definition to results orientated thinking. you cant blame arsenal for other peoples **** up when people are massively over performing expectation. if arsenal dont win league/CL next season, then it is a failure. Given they have the money to compete now. Stop shifting expectations throughout season. 38 games is already not enough to determine whos the "true" winner or not. Dont shift it half way through imo I think Leicester have shifted their target this season a little! And what was that about Spurs should just be happy to finish 4th? Yes when you're 12 games to go, 2 points behind the league leaders and you realise you aren't chasing a Mourinho managed Chelsea, a Ferguson managed Man. United but a Ranieri manager Leicester why wouldn't you target winning the league? Bold statement saying they need to win it next season. As I've said all the other teams will be much stronger with new managers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gharperr Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 lol not sarcasm ive always said here walcott press as CF is very good and worthwhile. i think he should have started instead of ox though. not giroud. also, you cant blame giroud today surely....Literally 2 inches offside for a goal. And close to the save of the season from LCFC keeper (cant spell his name) to stop him from scoring. Honestly thought that save meant Leicester winning the league. was that good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 Don't think Giroud's all round game is looking that sharp tbh, his touch is starting to get a bit ropey again. Arsenal have a tough few weeks ahead, two games v Barca, away games at Man. United and Spurs. Rotation is needed regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gharperr Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 (edited) half replied to previous post but will reply properly tomorrow... but i agree giroud touch is not looking sharp. Ive always praised giroud link up play and touch but this year its been seriously lacking compared to previous years. (ignroing the assist) yeh big few games for arsenal. Anybody know when cazorla returning? Coq-cazorla is so so important for arsenal atm. giroud is dominating setpeices though (replying to this made me miss city goal ) Edited February 14, 2016 by gharperr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 31 minutes ago, gharperr said: just no though. c'mon. if youre target was to finish 2nd at start of year you cant just suddenly shift it half way through because some teams suck and some teams are massively over performing. Definition to results orientated thinking. you cant blame arsenal for other peoples **** up when people are massively over performing expectation. if arsenal dont win league/CL next season, then it is a failure. Given they have the money to compete now. Stop shifting expectations throughout season. 38 games is already not enough to determine whos the "true" winner or not. Dont shift it half way through imo (yes i realised i said the semi same thing through 6 sentences, but i dont know how to work it properly) Leicester need to lose quite a few matches to meet their pre-season target of 17th. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 (edited) I love you gharperr but just seen this re-reading your post: Quote 38 games is already not enough to determine whos the "true" winner or not. Dont shift it half way through imo The gift that just keeps on giving.... Edited February 14, 2016 by VillaChris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 I've never known a villa fan be so defensive about Arsenal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gharperr Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 (edited) 24 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Leicester need to lose quite a few matches to meet their pre-season target of 17th. wait, you honestly think Leicester fans would think this season is a failure if they lose every single game from now on until end of season? Of course they wouldnt. Literally no idea why you bringing this up.?? (this this may have been a joke, sorry if was ) 17 minutes ago, VillaChris said: I love you gharperr but just seen this re-reading your post: The gift that just keeps on giving.... Also you think given injuries + ref decisions etc etc 38 games is enough to determine whos the best in the league? Eh? dont undersand that post? What if aguero + silva gets injured for whole season? should they win the league (refine parameters a bit more for all teams...). Im 95% confident that 38 game season statistically is not enough to determine who deserves to be true winners of a league. Wait you gamble a lot on football right villachris? Edited February 14, 2016 by gharperr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 Of course they'd think the season was a failure if they lost every game from now until the end of the season, they are favourites for the title or were before the today I haven't checked since. Same way if Villa were winning 5 nil against Man City in the 80th minute and it finished a draw I'd consider it a 'failure'. To say expectations can't be adjusted throughout the season in relation to the circumstances is quite frankly madness and a viewpoint I really can't understand. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 1 minute ago, gharperr said: wait, you honestly think Leicester fans would think this season is a failure if they lose every single game from now on until end of season? Of course they wouldnt. Literally no idea why you bringing this up.?? Yes, absolutely I think that. You don't think they would regard getting to first place only to lose all of the last twelve games of the season as a failure? Your belief that people don't revise their expectations in the face of evidence is nonsensical. At the start of the season, I 'expected' Villa to finish circa 14th, to show some improvement on last season. Now I think finishing last but on at least 25 points would be a triumph of sorts. Why is the yardstick set in mid-August last year the only one that matters? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gharperr Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 (edited) Oh wow. Leicester season is a failure because they over performed for the whole amount and then they adjust to their mean towards the end of the season (instead of adjusting throughout the 38 games)!? Seriously...!? Edited February 14, 2016 by gharperr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 The red card changed everything. Leicester take off their most creative player and they can only park the bus. Unlucky to loose so late on. But with the run of fixtures Leicester have they can still win the league. Spurs are massively in it with todays win as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 8 minutes ago, gharperr said: wait, you honestly think Leicester fans would think this season is a failure if they lose every single game from now on until end of season? Of course they wouldnt. Literally no idea why you bringing this up.?? (this this may have been a joke, sorry if was ) Also you think given injuries + ref decisions etc etc 38 games is enough to determine whos the best in the league? Eh? dont undersand that post? What if aguero + silva gets injured for whole season? should they win the league (refine parameters a bit more for all teams...). Im 95% confident that 38 game season statistically is not enough to determine who deserves to be true winners of a league. Wait you gamble a lot on football right villachris? Yep made 2k this weekend so far, 25 quid on 33/1 West Ham to score last minute winner v Liverpool and a few more. (obviously dosen't happen every weekend!) So how many games should you play to determine a league winner, 100? In a 38 game season you have good times to play teams and bad times to play teams. It's enough to determine the best team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 8 minutes ago, penguin said: Of course they'd think the season was a failure if they lost every game from now until the end of the season, they are favourites for the title or were before the today I haven't checked since. Same way if Villa were winning 5 nil against Man City in the 80th minute and it finished a draw I'd consider it a 'failure'. To say expectations can't be adjusted throughout the season in relation to the circumstances is quite frankly madness and a viewpoint I really can't understand. Probably a best example would be us in 08/09 and 09/10 seasons. What did you feel at the end of those seasons? Yes we probably overachieved in both challenging for top 4 but finishing 6th I felt disappointment we hadn't pushed more, particularly Arsenal in 08/09. Especially as we barely won a game from March. Think the reaction on here reflected that at the time. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 1 hour ago, gharperr said: Oh wow. Leicester season is a failure because they over performed for the whole amount and then they adjust to their mean towards the end of the season (instead of adjusting throughout the 38 games)!? Seriously...!? What can I tell you? Human beings don't approach things totally logically and dispassionately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gharperr Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 (edited) 4 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: What can I tell you? Human beings don't approach things totally logically and dispassionately. no idea what means but....apparently you view managers/teams how good they do in a short shift. So you think Monk deserved to get sacked after being short term best manager for swansea, and then not living up to hype? given previous comments...what about pardew at CP? starting of very very very well...now hes declining!? should their fans be disapointed because theyre not over performing anymore?! same to penguin who apparently agrees with you. Was fat sam a failure because he didnt manage CL after performing over expectation in first 6 minths for west ham? Apparently all we care about is short term immediate results in this thread.... you know what, sack klopp now. failure. Edited February 14, 2016 by gharperr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 21 minutes ago, gharperr said: no idea what means but....apparently you view managers/teams how good they do in a short shift. So you think Monk deserved to get sacked after being short term best manager for swansea, and then not living up to hype? given previous comments...what about pardew at CP? starting of very very very well...now hes declining!? should their fans be disapointed because theyre not over performing anymore?! same to penguin who apparently agrees with you. Was fat sam a failure because he didnt manage CL after performing over expectation in first 6 minths for west ham? Apparently all we care about is short term immediate results in this thread.... you know what, sack klopp now. failure. There's a lot of questions there! All I mean, very simply, is that football clubs and football fans don't simply take a view of what will be an 'acceptable' season on August 1st and then fail to revise it throughout the season. The conversation began because you suggested Arsenal wouldn't be disappointed if they failed to win the league, because 2nd would have been their target at the start of the season. Other people suggested that probably isn't true, because the only club with a better squad (Man City) are now behind them and the two teams above them are weaker on paper. People are suggesting, therefore, that this might be Arsenal's best chance for a while. Arsenal didn't know it would be their best chance on August 1st, so probably 2nd would have seemed like a maximum goal. Now, on February 15th, there is a real chance they could finish 1st. Ergo, many Arsenal fans will be disappointed if they don't finish 1st. People illustrated this point by comparison to Leicester. On August 1st, Leicester were probably targeting something in the region of 14th-17th. Now, they are 1st. If they somehow contrived to lose every game, and end up 14th (although it's too late for that by now) the season would feel like a disappointment. Not because they had underachieved their pre-season expectations, but because those expectations changed during the season. Now, 5th would be a massive disappointment. You seem to regard that as ridiculous, because it's not logical for people to be disappointed when they have over-achieved their targets. And in some ways you're right! But human psychology just doesn't work like that. On your other questions - Monk was sacked because Swansea felt there was a real chance of relegation if he remained manager, not because he 'didn't live up to hype'. Pardew won't be sacked, but the club will soon be underperforming if they lose many more games (they're not safe yet) and Allardyce was sacked because West Ham wanted a manager playing a more attractive style of football before their move, rather than anything to do with expectations per se. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 If Arsenal dont win the league they will be gutted, this was their season to win it just like was Liverpool in 13/14, doesnt matter what their pre-season hope was but not winning the league from their position after City game is their own fault Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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