Meath_Villan Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 13 hours ago, PompeyVillan said: I'm certainly enjoying Helen Skelton Yes ....oh yes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 Team GB cack this year at the moment. Under performing in most events Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meath_Villan Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 Paul Kimmage on twitter is tweeting/retweeting a lot of stuff on the dopers at the Olympics https://twitter.com/PaulKimmage 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 33 minutes ago, Richard said: Team GB cack this year at the moment. Under performing in most events not sure which ones... there are events we did well in at london but werent necessarily expected to do well in here, the gymnastics for example, the team werent expected to get a medal despite the bronze 4 years ago and the expectation on the individual stuff, william fox pitt got gold i think in london but on the basis that he spent time in a coma this year i dont think he was expected to win... id say the rugby 7 womens, the murrays in the doubles, that yafai in the boxing (although i think the boxing is unseeded so its not really fair to criticise them for going out early) the hockey personally im never sure why we are touted for medals its only really the cycling where we were amonsgt the favourites for gold and didnt even get a medal, thats how i class underperforming at the olympics, to say someone underperformed because they were in with a chance for bronze but ended up 4th just isnt how these games work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veloman Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 This could come back to bite me but I'm told not to expect too much from the track squads (cycling that is). Hope I'm wrong but the damage caused by certain bitchy women with an axe to grind certainly hasn't helped.As I said, I really hope I'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 Just now, veloman said: This could come back to bite me but I'm told not to expect too much from the track squads (cycling that is). Hope I'm wrong but the damage caused by certain bitchy women with an axe to grind certainly hasn't helped.As I said, I really hope I'm wrong. I absolutely cannot let this comment stand. This stuff about 'certain bitchy women with an axe to grind' is absolutely shocking. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veloman Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 8 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: I absolutely cannot let this comment stand. This stuff about 'certain bitchy women with an axe to grind' is absolutely shocking. Then I guess you don't know too much about the background to all this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 8 minutes ago, veloman said: Then I guess you don't know too much about the background to all this. Try me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 Please feel free to educate where the following summary goes wrong: 'First, Jess Varnish and her partner fail to qualify for Rio on March 3rd. They publicly express disappointment in the organization, saying there “was no plan”. At this stage, it looks like a typical athlete/coach/team dispute. On April 19th, the media publish a story that Varnish has been dropped from the Olympic programme on performance grounds. In that story, even before Varnish comments, the news report speculates whether this may be payback for her criticisms six weeks before. They quote Sutton explaining that it’s purely on performance grounds. This lays the foundation for what is to follow. April 22nd, and Varnish speaks. The Daily Mail runs a story in which Varnish says she was told to “move on and get on with having a baby”, and mentions that she was once told her ass was too big. She says there’s a list of sexist comments as long as her arm. She talks about a macho culture, suggesting that there is sexism within the team, and talks about how in response to her criticism, she got “both barrels” from Iain Dyer, the head coach. She also talks about asking for her data, a request for transparency so that she can evaluate the performance grounds on which she is apparently dismissed. The team refuse to provide that, as they have to this day. This story is written very favorably towards Varnish, and is harsh on British cycling for sexism and verbal abuse Varnish reports. This is important, because we live in a time, fortunately, where that is frowned upon. And so not surprisingly, an investigation is launched, on April 24th. A number of cyclists, Wiggins and Thomas among them, then offer a defence of Sutton. Not direct, of course, but effectively dismissing Varnish’s claims. On April 26th, articles come out describing a culture of fear in the team. Varnish is quoted as saying the following: “I have been contacted by other riders both present and past, to say that they have experienced similar behaviour at British Cycling,” she added. “I am aware that some people at British Cycling are afraid to come forward due to the culture of fear that exists, as they don’t want to lose their jobs.” The support comes in the form of Nicole Cooke, and Victoria Pendleton. Cooke says the following: “I have my own personal experiences of Shane and sympathise with Jess. She was in the position so many have found themselves: speak out and your dreams will be destroyed and years of hard work wasted. Or put up with it and hope. I spoke out from the age of 19 and I know what happens.” Pendleton raised a similar observation: “I have never spoken out before,” Pendleton told The Telegraph. “But I have to do it now. I would not be able to live with myself if I sat back and let people try to discredit [Varnish’s] character. Not when I wholeheartedly believe her. My experiences [at British Cycling] were very similar. And I know exactly how miserable they made me” This is all in the media on April 26th, and then, and only then, on April 27th, is the Shane Sutton suspension announced, and a probe launched into the accusations. So not yet a departure, but a hearing, where Sutton still expects to be fully exonerated. In other words, it took the combined weight of three women (two of whom are no longer in the race, but have earned the rights of GB cycling’s most accomplished to be heard) to instigate that suspension.' http://sportsscientists.com/2016/08/syeds-response-final-wrap-whistleblowerfaith-debate/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 2 hours ago, Richard said: Team GB cack this year at the moment. Under performing in most events Really? Last time we didn't win a medal until day 4.. We already have 4 this time around. Think we're on par to where we should be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veloman Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 OK. First of all, I have no wish to enter into a slanging match with a fellow Villa fan . However, I must ask ; are you an active racing cyclist ? Opinions re. Cooke and Varnish are a little subjective so I will stick to the objective (as I see it) situation re. Victoria Pendleton. There was a documentary on TV - can't remember which channel on this lady who was, without doubt, a fabulous cyclist, possibly the best British female cyclist since Beryl Burton. In the programme, the situation regarding her liaison with one of the coaching staff was examined. There was nothing immoral in the relationship but it became clear that such things were frowned upon and I seem to recall that she was given a 'dressing down'/ 'telling off' by Shane Sutton. I submit that this may still have irritated her and may have lead to her critical comments re. Sutton (who used to live near the Beggars Bush btw). As I said before, opinions re. Varnish and Cooke are far more subjective so I will not elucidate. What I believe is not subjective is the immense damage done to British Cycling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 2 minutes ago, veloman said: OK. First of all, I have no wish to enter into a slanging match with a fellow Villa fan . However, I must ask ; are you an active racing cyclist ? Opinions re. Cooke and Varnish are a little subjective so I will stick to the objective (as I see it) situation re. Victoria Pendleton. There was a documentary on TV - can't remember which channel on this lady who was, without doubt, a fabulous cyclist, possibly the best British female cyclist since Beryl Burton. In the programme, the situation regarding her liaison with one of the coaching staff was examined. There was nothing immoral in the relationship but it became clear that such things were frowned upon and I seem to recall that she was given a 'dressing down'/ 'telling off' by Shane Sutton. I submit that this may still have irritated her and may have lead to her critical comments re. Sutton (who used to live near the Beggars Bush btw). As I said before, opinions re. Varnish and Cooke are far more subjective so I will not elucidate. What I believe is not subjective is the immense damage done to British Cycling. If you don't want to cause damage to the national cycling team because of rampant sexism, don't be a rampant sexist. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veloman Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 If you are referring to Shane Sutton then I' m really not sure that he was a 'rampant sexist' . Look at the success of many of our other fabulous female riders - notably the team pursuit squad. I guess we will never know what was really said and it may be that Mr Sutton wasn't the most diplomatic person in the World but we did enjoy tremendous during his tenure didn't we ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted August 9, 2016 Moderator Share Posted August 9, 2016 1 hour ago, veloman said: If you are referring to Shane Sutton then I' m really not sure that he was a 'rampant sexist' . Look at the success of many of our other fabulous female riders - notably the team pursuit squad. I guess we will never know what was really said and it may be that Mr Sutton wasn't the most diplomatic person in the World but we did enjoy tremendous during his tenure didn't we ? I'm not sure that is really the point. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, veloman said: OK. First of all, I have no wish to enter into a slanging match with a fellow Villa fan . However, I must ask ; are you an active racing cyclist ? Opinions re. Cooke and Varnish are a little subjective so I will stick to the objective (as I see it) situation re. Victoria Pendleton. There was a documentary on TV - can't remember which channel on this lady who was, without doubt, a fabulous cyclist, possibly the best British female cyclist since Beryl Burton. In the programme, the situation regarding her liaison with one of the coaching staff was examined. There was nothing immoral in the relationship but it became clear that such things were frowned upon and I seem to recall that she was given a 'dressing down'/ 'telling off' by Shane Sutton. I submit that this may still have irritated her and may have lead to her critical comments re. Sutton (who used to live near the Beggars Bush btw). As I said before, opinions re. Varnish and Cooke are far more subjective so I will not elucidate. What I believe is not subjective is the immense damage done to British Cycling. No, I'm not a racing cyclist, just somebody who has been following the story. To be clear, I also have no desire to enter into a fight, and this isn't meant to be personal at all. But I do think your comment was way too quick to blame three women, in quite gendered terms, when to be honest I don't think you have the evidence to support what you said. The comment I'm quoting here kind of proves it; the evidence that Pendleton has a 'chip on her shoulder' is something you think you remember from a documentary you saw at some point. I mean, you might even be right, but it's all a bit thin isn't it. Varnish went on record noting a number of sexist comments that she claims Sutton made. They are contained within quotation marks in the extract above. It's a serious allegation. It may be that we can never be 100% sure of the truth, but to go on record, with what she claims is a direct quote of the nature of 'move on and get on with having a baby' is no small step. It deserves to be taken seriously - as indeed it has been, eventually, with an internal inquiry. On Sutton himself, I don't disagree with you that he is an excellent coach of the technical aspects of track cycling. He may not be an excellent coach full stop, though, as part of being a true great in coaching is surely the personal side of it. You don't need to be kind, but you do have to bring people with you. It was fairly clear, from the way the controversy blew up, that there are plenty of people in British Cycling who love Shane Sutton and equally plenty of people who loathed him. While there's obviously no way of knowing, I submit that if it hadn't been this controversy it would have been another one, in fairly short order. It probably has damaged our medal propects - although lets wait and see first - but winning medals isn't so incredibly important that it removes all moral questions from consideration. We aren't fighting a war, so we can't just suppress inconvenient news. EDIT: I should reiterate, I'm not looking for a fight, and I'm not looking to spend all evening in a back-and-forth on this. This is my opinion, in as considered a manner as I can give it; if I persuaded you, great, if I didn't, I didn't. Have a good evening anyway. Edited August 9, 2016 by HanoiVillan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted August 9, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted August 9, 2016 I've barely watched any of this. Caught some rowing and some of the road cycling, and Chris Boardman showing the crazy gutter on sections of the road where the tarmac just drops away to a 4 inch ravine before a concrete kerb. But nothing else. I just don't really care. And the time kills any enthusiasm for it. Major events happen when I'm asleep, early stuff I'm at work, and the couple of hours I get to sit down I've got other stuff to do. I was working when London was on and we basically all had the Beeb open on a second monitor watching events roll in. Not this. Nobody cares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 i dunno i think its picking up, the gymnastics which is probably in the top 5 events being on for the last 2 nights has probably helped, the problem is im missing all the side shows that normally make the olympics so good, archery and the like, sports id never watch and tbf are pretty only on tele when its the olympics and the general news and highlights doesnt seem to be as good as previous games, BBC seem to spend the half hour highlights show telling you about what the brits did at 3am rather than mopping everything up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted August 9, 2016 Moderator Share Posted August 9, 2016 2 hours ago, Chindie said: I was working when London was on and we basically all had the Beeb open on a second monitor watching events roll in. Not this. Nobody cares. The first week is always a little low key though as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 Serena Williams out of the women's tennis. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meath_Villan Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 1 minute ago, snowychap said: Serena Williams out of the women's tennis. odd ......must have quit juicing before the Olympics ...should have just pulled out like some of the golfers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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