Tony Xia (no longer involved with AVFC)

[terrytini]

42 minutes ago, Rob182 said:

..and in the meantime, the whole family will hurl abuse at the homeowner because a bill was missed and an accountant was sacked. Then in the coming weeks, while the homeowner stays silent and tries to earn a few pounds to [save for the future / avoid it happening again / avoid losing the house / avoid being put in jail] everyone in the house, except for the dog, assumes the worst, changes the locks and rips up his favourite suit.

I think that's the best way our situation can be explained. Those of us not calling for Tony's head (just yet) are the dog, obviously. 

But before the worst happens the missus/husband takes up with a wealthy sugar daddy/ mummy so when the owner comes back she/he’s slung out ?..........but she/he’s not met all the family yet......so she/he might not fancy staying ...some of those kids are just loopy.......and there’s thousands of them !

 

[paul1984]

6 hours ago, TheEgo said:

This us true, however it becomes a 'story' if there is a risk we CAN'T pay it and fyi, the money we WERE owed for transfers, we've actually settled with clubs early and for less to get the cash. For example we were owed money for Gil and Sanchez to name but two (there are others) where we said, if you pay us now we will knock x amount of the price. Is that a GOOD thing? It's reported as bad as it is bad. Debt is not a problem at all UNTIL you don't have the means to be it back How anyone can be happy and saying "it's much ado about nothing" when we're literally living month to month to see if we can pay our bills. Next date is the 29th June when the players and staff need paying, so we don't KNOW we can pay that yet, so there is no reassurance or good news. I see it as there are those who are rightly worried and those that think all of this has been blown up to be bigger than it is and say we assume its somewhere in the middle, it's still pretty scary. To me anyway. 

Is it a good thing? Neither yes or no, that's the point with paying early or in one go you get less money thats how the system works.

As for Gil I havent heard of us getting his money early as we have only this month sold him.

[paul1984]

22 hours ago, eholm said:

I can’t believe that anyone is seriously thinking that the club’s finances are fine and we are ticking along nicely with Xia at all he helm!! We are royally screwed unless we get either huge multi million investment or are sold completely. At present we are existing month to month by borrowing money from anyone who will help. Now where’s that cup if Kenco I can smell!!!

Are we? Seen the accounts? Or are you listening to the papers who are proven to talk bollocks.

Edited June 23, 2018 by blandy

[paul1984]

6 hours ago, TheEgo said:

He has with a LOAN, ie debt. 

Again, has he? He is only allowed to put in 13m a year

[imavillan]

1 hour ago, Rob182 said:

The problem we have is that no-one knows what Tony's financial situation is. He might have nothing. He might have huge debts. But as much as people scoff at the thought, he might also be worth hundreds of millions, as we were initially led to believe, and he apparently proved to the league.

It's been suggested that the majority of his rumoured worth is in the form of company assets, so perhaps that's part of the cashflow problem? Or perhaps it's not (I had to add that before the usual life-and-soul-of-the-party types edit my post in an attempt to rid me of my apparent rose-tinted specs).

An article posted a few days ago from an Eastern financial news outlet said that one of his companies employs 6,000 people, and that it had 10,000 until recently. That's not some small-time sweatshop employing 60 people on 20p a day, that's a huge nationally known company across, presumably, numerous locations. Some people chose to assume that this man employing 6,000 people in one of his companies has no money, others, like me, prefer to lean towards the, perhaps risky, angle of assuming that he does have money but we're (hopefully) just experiencing some short term difficulties which will soon be resolved.

 

In reality, none of us know the truth.

He might sell up, he might get investors, he might turn out to be a broke fraud in a jail cell, or in true Villa style, he might leave us, only for us to discover in years to come that he did in-fact have hundreds of millions.

Do you have a link to this? Which one of his companies was it? I would like to read this article.

 

I appreciate what you are saying but In my eyes the bloke is still a charlatan and has let us all down and big time at that. 

I read @TheEgo threads with much interest and for sure hope the bloke is nowhere near VP come the end of the year !!!!

[eholm]

10 minutes ago, paul1984 said:

Are we? Seen the accounts? Or are you listening to the papers who are proven to talk bollocks.

Occam’s Razor. 

Edited June 22, 2018 by eholm

[paul1984]

4 minutes ago, eholm said:

Occam’s Razor. 

Answering questions is cool FYI.

[hippo]

9 minutes ago, paul1984 said:

Again, has he? He is only allowed to put in 13m a year

Thats for FFP ....and part of the issue is that we look set to exceed £13m over 3 years.

a quite separate problem and more significant is that we dont have enough cash to meet our monthly bills. so Xia has to fund that shortfall himself as Randy did. or load that onto club debt with a loan presumably with interest payable.

now we dont know that - but the club has been loss making for a while so to have more going out than coming in ....isnt that improbable. we all knew Randy covered it as his own wealth was reported at 2bn. we have so info on xia...so the assumption he is covering it with loans seems entirley feasible to me.

 

[paul1984]

5 minutes ago, hippo said:

Thats for FFP ....and part of the issue is that we look set to exceed £13m over 3 years.

a quite separate problem and more significant is that we dont have enough cash to meet our monthly bills. so Xia has to fund that shortfall himself as Randy did. or load that onto club debt with a loan presumably with interest payable.

now we dont know that - but the club has been loss making for a while so to have more going out than coming in ....isnt that improbable. we all knew Randy covered it as his own wealth was reported at 2bn. we have so info on xia...so the assumption he is covering it with loans seems entirley feasible to me.

 

its 39 million over 3 years so 13 million per year.

You aren't going to break FFP rules on putting money into the club to get fined/deducted points.

IF you are going to put some money into the club and you have already gone over your 13 million you are going to do naming rights to the ground or something similar.
 

the point remains you guys all know nothing about the financial situation as none of us do, you do however know the FFP rules so you know the stories of 4-6m per month being put in is rubbish, and lest we forget our expenses are about that amount per month, are we pretending we don't have an income now to confirm our biases? 

Edited June 22, 2018 by paul1984

[srsmithusa]

39 minutes ago, terrytini said:

But before the worst happens the missus/husband takes up with a wealthy sugar daddy/ mummy so when the owner comes back she/he’s slung out ?..........but she/he’s not met all the family yet......so she/he might not fancy staying ...some of those kids are just loopy.......and there’s thousands of them !

 

ok, this is just weird.  Are you a PI for my ex or something?

[hippo]

19 minutes ago, paul1984 said:

its 39 million over 3 years so 13 million per year.

You aren't going to break FFP rules on putting money into the club to get fined/deducted points.

IF you are going to put some money into the club and you have already gone over your 13 million you are going to do naming rights to the ground or something similar.
 

the point remains you guys all know nothing about the financial situation as none of us do, you do however know the FFP rules so you know the stories of 4-6m per month being put in is rubbish, and lest we forget our expenses are about that amount per month, are we pretending we don't have an income now to confirm our biases? 

unless of course xia is putting 4-6m per month to cover bills and when we submitt our ffp statement we get hammered.

FFP doesnt stop debts accumulating. it just punishes you if you do.

[paul1984]

1 minute ago, hippo said:

unless of course xia is putting 4-6m per month to cover bills and when we submitt our ffp statement we get hammered.

FFP doesnt stop debts accumulating. it just punishes you if you do.

Ok, except we know roughly what our outgoings are and it would require no where near that 4-6m per month to add to our income to cover the bills ergo even without FFP the stories are rubbish.

Like everyone else, I know we are losing money but it certainly isnt that much per month

[HanoiVillan]

2 hours ago, Rob182 said:

The problem we have is that no-one knows what Tony's financial situation is. He might have nothing. He might have huge debts. But as much as people scoff at the thought, he might also be worth hundreds of millions, as we were initially led to believe, and he apparently proved to the league.

It's been suggested that the majority of his rumoured worth is in the form of company assets, so perhaps that's part of the cashflow problem? Or perhaps it's not (I had to add that before the usual life-and-soul-of-the-party types edit my post in an attempt to rid me of my apparent rose-tinted specs).

An article posted a few days ago from an Eastern financial news outlet said that one of his companies employs 6,000 people, and that it had 10,000 until recently. That's not some small-time sweatshop employing 60 people on 20p a day, that's a huge nationally known company across, presumably, numerous locations. Some people chose to assume that this man employing 6,000 people in one of his companies has no money, others, like me, prefer to lean towards the, perhaps risky, angle of assuming that he does have money but we're (hopefully) just experiencing some short term difficulties which will soon be resolved.

 

In reality, none of us know the truth.

He might sell up, he might get investors, he might turn out to be a broke fraud in a jail cell, or in true Villa style, he might leave us, only for us to discover in years to come that he did in-fact have hundreds of millions.

This is a fair post, and makes some decent points. However, I can say that in a country the size of China, companies that employ thousands of people are ten a penny, it's nothing special at all. 

Edited June 22, 2018 by HanoiVillan

[wilko154]

31 minutes ago, paul1984 said:

the point remains you guys all know nothing about the financial situation as none of us do, you do however know the FFP rules so you know the stories of 4-6m per month being put in is rubbish, and lest we forget our expenses are about that amount per month, are we pretending we don't have an income now to confirm our biases? 

This is actually a really good point and isn't something I have thought about... if Xia had been putting 5 million per month into the club to keep it afloat since he started surely that would be showing in the account. 5 million a month for 24 months is 120 million pounds. Even if it was a million a month 24 million pounds would be showing as being put into the club as an income... i believe a club owner can only put in a certain amount per year outside of sponsorship.

Anyone have the answer to this? I imagine the press have massively blown it out of proportion.

 

The way I imagine it has gone is that we had a stockpile of cash plus parachute payments when Xia took over the club, throughout the two seasons we have used the cash to cover all of the bills (overheads, transfers, wages etc). The board banked on us going up this season and for that now depleted stockpile of cash to be refilled with large sponsorship deals and premier league tv revenue along with any money Xia could invest himself. When we didn't get promoted the money didn't come in as we had banked on and so we now have to find other ways of getting it... this being Xia having to move money across to the club (which he wasn't previously having to do due to the money the club had in their accounts), he has now realised this is more difficult than it was when he took over the club.

We now just have to hope that Xia finds a way to get the money into the club to cover the bills for another season, whilst at the same time reducing the overheads (largely wages) to overcome the income/outgoing deficit.

[paul1984]

1 minute ago, wilko154 said:

This is actually a really good point and isn't something I have thought about... if Xia had been putting 5 million per month into the club to keep it afloat since he started surely that would be showing in the account. 5 million a month for 24 months is 120 million pounds. Even if it was a million a month 24 million pounds would be showing as being put into the club as an income... i believe a club owner can only put in a certain amount per year outside of sponsorship.

Anyone have the answer to this? I imagine the press have massively blown it out of proportion.

 

The way I imagine it has gone is that we had a stockpile of cash plus parachute payments when Xia took over the club, throughout the two seasons we have used the cash to cover all of the bills (overheads, transfers, wages etc). The board banked on us going up this season and for that now depleted stockpile of cash to be refilled with large sponsorship deals and premier league tv revenue along with any money Xia could invest himself. When we didn't get promoted the money didn't come in as we had banked on and so we now have to find other ways of getting it... this being Xia having to move money across to the club (which he wasn't previously having to do due to the money the club had in their accounts), he has now realised this is more difficult than it was when he took over the club.

We now just have to hope that Xia finds a way to get the money into the club to cover the bills for another season, whilst at the same time reducing the overheads (largely wages) to overcome the income/outgoing deficit.

Xia can put up to 39m into the club over 3 years.

[wilko154]

Just now, paul1984 said:

Xia can put up to 39m into the club over 3 years.

Not quite the reported 5 million per month then 

[snowychap]

2 minutes ago, wilko154 said:

This is actually a really good point and isn't something I have thought about... if Xia had been putting 5 million per month into the club to keep it afloat since he started surely that would be showing in the account. 5 million a month for 24 months is 120 million pounds. Even if it was a million a month 24 million pounds would be showing as being put into the club as an income... i believe a club owner can only put in a certain amount per year outside of sponsorship.

Anyone have the answer to this? I imagine the press have massively blown it out of proportion.

On 06/06/2018 at 16:41, snowychap said:

 

However, whilst it isn't £5-£6 million a month for yr ended 31/05/17, it's still £47m for that year according to this tweet and the cashflow statement for that year:

 

[paul1984]

2 minutes ago, snowychap said:

 

 

Yep that's wrong too, its got wages at over 93m and the wage bill here is 45m at the moment and was 62m before the season ended.

[snowychap]

3 minutes ago, paul1984 said:

Yep that's wrong too, its got wages at over 93m and the wage bill here is 45m at the moment and was 62m before the season ended.

You are claiming that the Consolidated cashflow statement for the year ended 31 May 2017 is wrong?

Edit: Where in the cashflow statment is a figure for wages?

Edited June 22, 2018 by snowychap

[snowychap]

6 minutes ago, paul1984 said:

the wage bill here is 45m at the moment and was 62m before the season ended

 

1 hour ago, paul1984 said:

Seen the accounts?