Tony Xia (no longer involved with AVFC)

[paul1984]

3 minutes ago, snowychap said:

You are claiming that the Consolidated cashflow statement for the year ended 31 May 2017 is wrong?

Edit: Where in the cashflow statment is a figure for wages?

I clicked on the link and it came up with a list of lots of different clubs and figures, I assumed that was what you were linking.

As for the cash flow statement, I wouldn't claim to understand that however I would point out it is for 2016/2017

[paul1984]

Just now, snowychap said:

 

 

Yes

[hippo]

4 minutes ago, wilko154 said:

Not quite the reported 5 million per month then 

Unless we cashed in everything up front.ousourced the catering, took up front money for players, deffered outgoings all in the hope of getting promoted. 

now that hasnt happened it could be that we have no revenue streams to cover the monthly outgoings..

remember last years accounts are just that......last years

[Jareth]

The owner provides cash flow, the club operates, year to year the bills are settled and supposedly at the end there is meant to be a profit, not so for us, or 4/5ths of the league. Tony's no different to any other championship club owner with ambition - 2016/17 the three teams to get promotion lost more than we did, so while Tony gets it in the neck for gambling and losing, maybe he should get it for not gambling enough. Yes we failed, but the owner was only doing what every other owner does in that position. 

Newcastle, who received the first year of £42m parachute payments after relegation from the Premier League, gambled for immediate promotion, sustaining a £47m loss. Their wage bill, £112m, was £26m more than its total revenues for the year. Brighton, engaging in another push to make the top flight, also paid wages substantially greater than their revenues and made a loss of £39m. Huddersfield did the same, making a £20m loss.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/jun/07/championship-financial-gap-premier-league-annual-accounts

[snowychap]

11 minutes ago, paul1984 said:

I clicked on the link and it came up with a list of lots of different clubs and figures, I assumed that was what you were linking.

No, I was linking to the tweet that I had posted:

On 06/06/2018 at 16:41, snowychap said:

 

However, whilst it isn't £5-£6 million a month for yr ended 31/05/17, it's still £47m for that year according to this tweet and the cashflow statement for that year:

 

 

11 minutes ago, paul1984 said:

As for the cash flow statement, I wouldn't claim to understand that however I would point out it is for 2016/2017

The chap whose tweet I quoted would however claim to understand it. Yes, I know it's for the financial year ended 31/05/07 because I posted that very thing: whilst it isn't £5-£6 million a month for yr ended 31/05/17, it's still £47m for that year according to this tweet and the cashflow statement for that year.

11 minutes ago, paul1984 said:

 

1 hour ago, paul1984 said:

Seen the accounts?

Yes

Did you understand them?

Edited June 22, 2018 by snowychap

[paul1984]

Just now, snowychap said:

No, I was linking to the tweet that I had posted:

 

 

The chap whose tweet I quoted would however claim to understand it. Yes, I know it's for the financial year ended 31/05/07 because I posted that very thing: whilst it isn't £5-£6 million a month for yr ended 31/05/17, it's still £47m for that year according to this tweet and the cashflow statement for that year.

Did you understand them?

Care to explain what that money was for?

[DCJonah]

Looking forward to when Grealish is sold and Xia gets praised for solving FFP. 

 

[snowychap]

7 minutes ago, paul1984 said:

Care to explain what that money was for?

According to that cashflow statement:

£21m for operating activities, £16m for investing activities and just under £11m reducing cash and cash equivalents owed (an overdraft).

 

Edited June 22, 2018 by snowychap

[Jareth]

4 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Looking forward to when Grealish is sold and Xia gets praised for solving FFP. 

 

I believe you've misjudged this - nobody wants Grealish sold, and if he is then it will be because we gambled and failed, and that will suck. Your comment is more a premature attack at anybody who's given Tony a fair run to this point. 

[paul1984]

1 minute ago, snowychap said:

According to that cashflow statement:

£21m for operating activities, £16m for investing activities and a reduction in cash and cash equivalents (an overdraft) owed of just under £11m.

 

I meant in actual real terms of wages, player transfers, etc.

[rubberman]

36 minutes ago, wilko154 said:

The way I imagine it has gone is that we had a stockpile of cash plus parachute payments when Xia took over the club, throughout the two seasons we have used the cash to cover all of the bills (overheads, transfers, wages etc). The board banked on us going up this season and for that now depleted stockpile of cash to be refilled with large sponsorship deals and premier league tv revenue along with any money Xia could invest himself. When we didn't get promoted the money didn't come in as we had banked on and so we now have to find other ways of getting it... this being Xia having to move money across to the club (which he wasn't previously having to do due to the money the club had in their accounts), he has now realised this is more difficult than it was when he took over the club.

We now just have to hope that Xia finds a way to get the money into the club to cover the bills for another season, whilst at the same time reducing the overheads (largely wages) to overcome the income/outgoing deficit.

This for me.  Until we hear something concrete otherwise.  ie Pretty bad, but not Villamageddon.  Yet.

[snowychap]

32 minutes ago, paul1984 said:

I meant in actual real terms of wages, player transfers, etc.

Go and look at the picture in the tweet.

Investing activities relates to net transfer activity plus money out for a tangible fixed asset.

Operating activities are just that - operating activities (i.e. net incomings or outgoings - outgoings in our case, obviously - related to the operation of the business that are not investing activities).

Edited June 22, 2018 by snowychap

[TheEgo]

17 hours ago, paul1984 said:

Is it a good thing? Neither yes or no, that's the point with paying early or in one go you get less money thats how the system works.

As for Gil I havent heard of us getting his money early as we have only this month sold him.

totally missed the point. We are that broke that WE have accepted less money than OWED to get it a few months early. You don't do that as standard practice. It is NOT how the system works. And as for Gil just because you haven't heard about it, doesn't mean it's not so. We settled 3 months early at a reduced rate for example. They owe us 3m to be paid in June and we say in April can we have the cash now and we'll accept 2m (these figures are just an illustration) This isn't the actions of a club in a good state. Add this to already borrowing against next months parachute payment (so already spent, gone) AND the money coming in from the Gov for the HS2 stuff, it paints a really bad picture. Those are reasonable facts so whilst all us guys don't know everything. there is more than enough information on Companies house, Company Check and other mediums to at least warrant a worried frame of mind, that's all it is WORRY. Will we pay next months bills? Who f**king knows? I don't like this feeling for my club. You don't feel that way. that's OK too, neither is right or wrong. 

 

[TheEgo]

1 hour ago, paul1984 said:

Again, has he? He is only allowed to put in 13m a year

I don't get your question? How else do you think he has paid it? This has nothing to do with ffp at this point in time (that will come at the end of the season) at the moment it's about paying the bills to avoid going into administration. I think you need to research a little I don't mean that to be patronizing or condescending in anyway at all, I'm just not sure you're as aware as you could be from reading your posts.

[TheEgo]

1 hour ago, imavillan said:

Do you have a link to this? Which one of his companies was it? I would like to read this article.

 

I appreciate what you are saying but In my eyes the bloke is still a charlatan and has let us all down and big time at that. 

I read @TheEgo threads with much interest and for sure hope the bloke is nowhere near VP come the end of the year !!!!

Tony or me? haha 

[TRO]

On 21/06/2018 at 14:45, terrytini said:

I believe.....

I believe there is a monster, hiding in Loch Ness

I believe they faked the moonshots and will one day confess

I believe it was the mafia, that murdered JFK

And I believe that Elvis will return again some day

I believe it was a Spaceman, that built the pyramid

And I believe that Qatar really had the best Cup bid

But when I try and tell myself the Doctor isn’t broke,

My heart wants to believe it but

My head says it’s a joke......

 

 

......some pearlers there Terry.

[paul1984]

at this rate no ones going to know whats going on until march when the accounts come out

[TheEgo]

59 minutes ago, wilko154 said:

This is actually a really good point and isn't something I have thought about... if Xia had been putting 5 million per month into the club to keep it afloat since he started surely that would be showing in the account. 5 million a month for 24 months is 120 million pounds. Even if it was a million a month 24 million pounds would be showing as being put into the club as an income... i believe a club owner can only put in a certain amount per year outside of sponsorship.

Anyone have the answer to this? I imagine the press have massively blown it out of proportion.

 

The way I imagine it has gone is that we had a stockpile of cash plus parachute payments when Xia took over the club, throughout the two seasons we have used the cash to cover all of the bills (overheads, transfers, wages etc). The board banked on us going up this season and for that now depleted stockpile of cash to be refilled with large sponsorship deals and premier league tv revenue along with any money Xia could invest himself. When we didn't get promoted the money didn't come in as we had banked on and so we now have to find other ways of getting it... this being Xia having to move money across to the club (which he wasn't previously having to do due to the money the club had in their accounts), he has now realised this is more difficult than it was when he took over the club.

We now just have to hope that Xia finds a way to get the money into the club to cover the bills for another season, whilst at the same time reducing the overheads (largely wages) to overcome the income/outgoing deficit.

Literally a crude and quick answer, but I will go and read the accounts to verify this. Our wage bill BEFORE any other outgoing is 45 million a year, so divided by 12 is 3.75m a month. Gives you a rough figure. As I said though I will look at the accounts. I don't believe he's been having to do that monthly for long as we've made a profit on transfers, as well as a big sum from the parachute payments. I'd say it's been a few months, as the chunks of cash have dried up, as has the available cash. It's absolutely 100% irrefutable that we have a cash flow problem and that is THE problem and I personally don't see why people can't see that. Ignore all the press stuff. We don't have CASH to pay bills and so are having to loan. This is bad, whatever the angel, whatever the spin. Boy do I want to be wrong, sooooo badly wrong. I'll eat a massive slice of humble pie on a twitch stream if Tony magically finds his wallet again. I truly hope he does and then I hope he f**ks off 

[TheEgo]

1 hour ago, paul1984 said:

Yep that's wrong too, its got wages at over 93m and the wage bill here is 45m at the moment and was 62m before the season ended.

You'll know then that 45m divided by 12 is 3.75m a month alone before tax and other bills. Kinda disproved your own point

[TRO]

15 minutes ago, paul1984 said:

at this rate no ones going to know whats going on until march when the accounts come out

and even when they do.....folk even with accountancy nous, will disagree....such is the complexity of it all.

In my experience of accountants, they are like every profession good ones and Bull shitters.....try working out which ones to trust, with only a superficial knowledge of accounts.

Its one thing seeing the accounts, its another understanding them and then another interpreting them in to a format that tells you what state you are in....its easy to be non interested in so much conjecture.

Edited June 22, 2018 by TRO