bickster Posted March 25, 2019 Moderator Share Posted March 25, 2019 4 minutes ago, snowychap said: There's a shameful lack of people in the chamber for the debate tonight - especially on the Tory side. Too busy playing Dungeons and Dragons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted March 25, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted March 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, bickster said: Too busy playing Dungeons and Dragons Burning crosses, pls. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 25, 2019 Moderator Share Posted March 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Chindie said: Burning crosses, pls. Yep, that works better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 (edited) Will they never learn? Edited March 25, 2019 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 14 minutes ago, bickster said: Much much more on link - LSE It seems that those who actually survived the war don't vote the same as the one that weren't born until after I like the data. Hate the repeating of the peace in Europe line. Kind of glosses over the E.European uprisings since the 50's, the Greek Military Junta, Rise of ETA and IRA, Baltics and Georgian wars of independence, That whole Balkan thing, Turks invading Cyprus/Greek Islands, French invasion of Corsica and the countless conflicts fought by European countries overseas since the coal deal in '50, but yeah apart from THAT what have the Romans..........etc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrusr Posted March 25, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted March 25, 2019 1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said: Cool name guys, can't see any issues with that. Always goes well when people pick their own nicknames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Other things being equal, would that make it 313-313 ? Over to Bercow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 (edited) Getting over half the MPs to say yes to something is nigh on impossible. This is all just a waste of time. Get the second referendum done FFS. Edited March 25, 2019 by sharkyvilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted March 25, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted March 25, 2019 28 minutes ago, VILLAMARV said: I like the data. Hate the repeating of the peace in Europe line. Kind of glosses over the E.European uprisings since the 50's, the Greek Military Junta, Rise of ETA and IRA, Baltics and Georgian wars of independence, That whole Balkan thing, Turks invading Cyprus/Greek Islands, French invasion of Corsica and the countless conflicts fought by European countries overseas since the coal deal in '50, but yeah apart from THAT what have the Romans..........etc I'm not sure if you're serious. The history of Europe for the last, ooh... 1500 years? is one of constant war between the powers of the region. In the last 100 odd years that history has the continent try very, very hard to destroy itself. In the aftermath of the second attempt the European Coal and Steel Community was established, which gradually became the EU as it is now, and lo and behold the members haven't warred with each other since, because all of them benefit from doing business with each other. What it doesn't mean is the entire continent has gone hippy. Have they had conflict outside of the EU? Yes. Has Europe generally seen conflict? Yes, but I'm not sure what the EU is supposed to do to prevent war with nations that aren't even under its purview. Have the members have internal conflicts? Yes (and in all likelihood they would have had these anyway). But they have broke the habit that has existed since before the concept of a modern day state existed - the members haven't tried to wipe each other of the map. That's the salient point. And to ignore it or pooh-pooh it because the continent in its entirety isn't completely peace free is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 39 minutes ago, VILLAMARV said: I like the data. Hate the repeating of the peace in Europe line. Kind of glosses over the E.European uprisings since the 50's, the Greek Military Junta, Rise of ETA and IRA, Baltics and Georgian wars of independence, That whole Balkan thing, Turks invading Cyprus/Greek Islands, French invasion of Corsica and the countless conflicts fought by European countries overseas since the coal deal in '50, but yeah apart from THAT what have the Romans..........etc We've stopped France and Germany kicking shit out of each other by giving them the rest of europe to play with. Once we're out of the EU they'll be far more supportive of the idea of Scots independence than they were last time. Similarly, Catalonia will struggle for independence whilst the EU edges towards homogenisation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted March 25, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted March 25, 2019 Hmm... Quote I am told that the minutes of the cabinet meeting contain at least five references to the Tories’ narrow political concerns. According to the official account, written by Sir Mark Sedwill, the cabinet secretary, ministers discussed how the government is “committed to delivering Brexit — not to do so would be damaging to the Conservative party”. And in a clear sign of the political nature of the discussion chaired by the prime minister, the minutes end with the words: “The Conservative party wants to stay in government and get councillors elected. The arguments in parliament could jeopardise that.” It is extremely unusual for such language to creep into a civil service note — partisan debates are supposed to be limited to special political cabinet meetings from which officials are excluded. In fact the tone of the minutes was so extraordinary that the issue was raised at this morning’s cabinet meeting by ministers who stressed the importance of governing in the national rather than the party interest. This was, however, part of a pattern. One Whitehall source says: “In recent weeks there have been an increasing number of mentions in cabinet minutes about how Brexit has to be delivered for the sake of the Conservative party. That will be damning when the public inquiry into Brexit happens. The civil service are now finding ways of ensuring that the political decisions that are being taken will one day be fully understood.” Times behind paywall Colour me shocked. Completely despicable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted March 25, 2019 Moderator Share Posted March 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, snowychap said: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 25, 2019 Moderator Share Posted March 25, 2019 5 minutes ago, snowychap said: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Confirmed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 25, 2019 Moderator Share Posted March 25, 2019 314-312? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 20 minutes ago, Chindie said: I'm not sure if you're serious. The history of Europe for the last, ooh... 1500 years? is one of constant war between the powers of the region. In the last 100 odd years that history has the continent try very, very hard to destroy itself. In the aftermath of the second attempt the European Coal and Steel Community was established, which gradually became the EU as it is now, and lo and behold the members haven't warred with each other since, because all of them benefit from doing business with each other. What it doesn't mean is the entire continent has gone hippy. Have they had conflict outside of the EU? Yes. Has Europe generally seen conflict? Yes, but I'm not sure what the EU is supposed to do to prevent war with nations that aren't even under its purview. Have the members have internal conflicts? Yes (and in all likelihood they would have had these anyway). But they have broke the habit that has existed since before the concept of a modern day state existed - the members haven't tried to wipe each other of the map. That's the salient point. And to ignore it or pooh-pooh it because the continent in its entirety isn't completely peace free is ridiculous. Yeah, I am. Was just making a point about what I perceive to be the bastardisation of language. I don't think there's anything ridiculous about people using the correct words to describe what they mean. "Peace between EU member states" for instance I wouldn't rile against. The phrase "Stopping a major land war on the European continent between the larger/dominant powers" also wouldn't annoy me. "Peace in Europe" is a different thing that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, bickster said: 314-312? Apparently, Alastair Burt also voting for Letwin amendment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted March 25, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted March 25, 2019 12 minutes ago, snowychap said: Kuenssberg presumably followed this with a tweet saying 'and nothing of any relevance changed'. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 25, 2019 Moderator Share Posted March 25, 2019 1 minute ago, snowychap said: Apparently, Alastair Burt also voting for Letwin amendment. 315-311 then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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