The now-enacted will of (some of) the people

[Wainy316]

I really dislike my country.

[Chindie]

15 minutes ago, Wainy316 said:

I really dislike my country.

Why are you talking down your country?

It'll be people like you's fault when Brexit fails 

The enemy within.

 

 

[HanoiVillan]

50 minutes ago, Wainy316 said:

I really dislike my country.

Me **** too. 

[villaglint]

37 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Me **** too. 

I said this to my Spanish friend the other day while promising him if it came to it I wouldn't murder him or his family. 

His answer was that our country is fantastic, we should be embarrassed by the politicians. 

[Demitri_C]

Farage certain has balls calling them gangsters

[a m ole]

21 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Farage certain has balls calling them gangsters

If by 'balls' you mean thin skin and delusions of grandeur, then I wholeheartedly agree.

[Chindie]

I prefer the term 'colossal pug faced dickhead' myself

Or word removed for short.

Edited April 5, 2017 by Chindie

[Demitri_C]

33 minutes ago, Chindie said:

I prefer the term 'colossal pug faced dickhead' myself

Or word removed for short.

[Chindie]

EU seems to have agreed it's stance. Faux Thatcher won't be pleased. Or will be. Depends how desperate she and her cohort is to have no deal.

No parallel negotiations. No discussion of future deal before the exit deal (i.e. settling the bill we committed to) and the future of EU citizens is done. No special deal for the City. ECJ will settle things during transition. Transition deal only to last for 3 years max.

Comments (once Farage had finished spewing his mouth shit) continued the hint of sadness this has happened, but also sternness in how the EU proceeds. And tone was hampered with disdain for the stupid stuff coming from the Conservatives recently.

Seen more figures recently looking at the effects and so on. Still didn't look good.

Verhofstadt has commented

Quote

Addressing MEPs near the start of the debate, Mr Verhofstadt said he believed Britain might return to the EU in the future, when a younger generation recognises Brexit as “a loss of time, a waste of energy and a stupidity”. He described the Leave vote as “a catfight in the Conservative party that got out of hand”.

The Viewspaper

He's not right on the Leave vote. But it's part of it. Otherwise I think he's on the money.

[villa4europe]

4 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

Farage certain has balls calling them gangsters

he's a **** idiot, i was sat in that parliament today for someone in the EU id be grinning thinking your days coming fella im shitting all over you first chance i get

he's going to generate a lot of spite towards us rather than actually helping

[HanoiVillan]

1 hour ago, villa4europe said:

he's a **** idiot, i was sat in that parliament today for someone in the EU id be grinning thinking your days coming fella im shitting all over you first chance i get

he's going to generate a lot of spite towards us rather than actually helping

'Going to'?

[Awol]

6 hours ago, Chindie said:

EU seems to have agreed it's stance. Faux Thatcher won't be pleased. Or will be. Depends how desperate she and her cohort is to have no deal.

No parallel negotiations. No discussion of future deal before the exit deal (i.e. settling the bill we committed to) and the future of EU citizens is done. No special deal for the City. ECJ will settle things during transition. Transition deal only to last for 3 years max.

Comments (once Farage had finished spewing his mouth shit) continued the hint of sadness this has happened, but also sternness in how the EU proceeds. And tone was hampered with disdain for the stupid stuff coming from the Conservatives recently.

Seen more figures recently looking at the effects and so on. Still didn't look good.

Verhofstadt has commented

The Viewspaper

He's not right on the Leave vote. But it's part of it. Otherwise I think he's on the money.

Yes the EU has decided how they want things to run. That is an opening gambit and the basis for a discussion with the other party to the negotiations. 

The EU also says Spain will have a veto on whether any deal applies to the territory of Gibraltar. Do you think the UK will simply roll over and accept that too?! 

[ml1dch]

4 hours ago, Awol said:

Yes the EU has decided how they want things to run. That is an opening gambit and the basis for a discussion with the other party to the negotiations. 

The EU also says Spain will have a veto on whether any deal applies to the territory of Gibraltar. Do you think the UK will simply roll over and accept that too?! 

Well, Spain (and every other EU member) has the right to veto the agreement that the negotiators bring back for whatever reason they want. That's been known from the start of all this.

Hungary can veto it because they don't like the colour of David Davis's shoes if they want.

In the event of one of the remaining members opting to veto the final deal, what alternatives to "rolling over and taking it" do you see the UK employing?

Edited April 6, 2017 by ml1dch

[blandy]

4 hours ago, Awol said:

Yes the EU has decided how they want things to run. That is an opening gambit and the basis for a discussion with the other party to the negotiations. 

The EU also says Spain will have a veto on whether any deal applies to the territory of Gibraltar. Do you think the UK will simply roll over and accept that too?! 

No its not an opening gambit. It is the "rules" for the process. The UK has no say on this. 

Again, the veto is in "the rules". Like when the UK has in the past used our veto. The other party/parties can try and persuade, but have no ability to prevent it being used.

[Awol]

1 hour ago, ml1dch said:

Well, Spain (and every other EU member) has the right to veto the agreement that the negotiators bring back for whatever reason they want. That's been known from the start of all this.

Hungary can veto it because they don't like the colour of David Davis's shoes if they want.

In the event of one of the remaining members opting to veto the final deal, what alternatives to "rolling over and taking it" do you see the UK employing?

The exact wording: "after the United Kingdom leaves the Union, no agreement between the EU and the United Kingdom may apply to the territory of Gibraltar without the agreement between the Kingdom of Spain and the United Kingdom."

So not about Spain vetoing the deal with the UK but an EU attempt to separate Gibraltar (a British Overseas Territory) from the UK in the application of any deal subject to a bilateral Spanish veto.

In terms of what we can do,the answer is clearly not to engage in any substantive negotiations unless or until the EU agrees to modify the conditions for those negotiations.

They want our money and access to the UK market, we are not supplicants or powerless however much some in the UK media (and certain politicians) may wish to portray us as being.

 

[ml1dch]

15 minutes ago, Awol said:

The exact wording: "after the United Kingdom leaves the Union, no agreement between the EU and the United Kingdom may apply to the territory of Gibraltar without the agreement between the Kingdom of Spain and the United Kingdom."

 

All that does is make explicit something that would be implicit anyway.

Let's say that a perfect, watertight arrangement is reached, with the UK government assuming (rightly, given that it's a British territory) that it applies to Gibraltar. 

If that deal isn't satisfactory for the Spanish government then they can veto the arrangement, just like any other country can. This hasn't given Spain any new powers or brought to light anything that wasn't previously known.

[Awol]

Just now, ml1dch said:

All that does is make explicit something that would be implicit anyway.

Let's say that a perfect, watertight arrangement is reached, with the UK government assuming (rightly, given that it's a British territory) that it applies to Gibraltar. 

If that deal isn't satisfactory for the Spanish government then they can veto the arrangement, just like any other country can. This hasn't given Spain any new powers or brought to light anything that wasn't previously known.

It has! It enables a deal to be ratified between the U.K. and the EU while simultaneously allowing Spain to isolate Gibraltar if it so wishes.

So Spain can be as difficult as they like about Gibraltar without affecting the other 26 countries who want to conclude a deal with the UK.

That's what the fuss is about.

 

[Chindie]

Whist the EU would of course like UK business in as unhampered a way possible, we would like the opposite far more.

We've more to lose. Far more. Every figure I've seen shows that. Even ignoring the figures... It's one country wanting to deal with 27, versus 27 who as a group would like to deal with us but also have 26 other countries to deal with.

Even a group representing the major German industrial manufacturers, the VDMA, said this the other day.

[Awol]

10 minutes ago, Chindie said:

Whist the EU would of course like UK business in as unhampered a way possible, we would like the opposite far more.

We've more to lose. Far more. Every figure I've seen shows that. Even ignoring the figures... It's one country wanting to deal with 27, versus 27 who as a group would like to deal with us but also have 26 other countries to deal with.

Even a group representing the major German industrial manufacturers, the VDMA, said this the other day.

I don't dispute that, but if we dig in our heels on this point (which I've no doubt will happen) then the remainder of the EU won't see a deal lost over the issue of Gib and the donkey wallopers.

That's all I'm saying, we are not as powerless as some seem to believe if simply we have a little resolve. 

[Chindie]

Lest we forget that the EU nearly lost 7 years of work over a deal because one region of Belgium didn't like one element of the proposal given.