bickster Posted January 30, 2023 Moderator Share Posted January 30, 2023 1 minute ago, Mark Albrighton said: I wouldn’t have minded a colour key for that map. It looks like those by me are faintly regretful (maybe the second least green colour), but not sure. The darker the green the more strongly they feel that Brexit was a mistake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted January 30, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted January 30, 2023 Just now, bickster said: The darker the green the more strongly they feel that Brexit was a mistake No I get that, thanks. It’s when it’s gets paler. I’m just mildly curious whether those in the bit of Shropshire with me are a tiny bit regretful or a teeny, tiny bit regretful. It looks like there is a paler shade than where I live but it’s not totally clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted January 30, 2023 Moderator Share Posted January 30, 2023 17 minutes ago, blandy said: What the poll isn't asking, and something which would get a very different result IMO, is "should we apply to rejoin the EU?" It's one thing to notice the unavoidable evidence that the Tory Brexit has been a fustercluck, but another thing to think that today we should apply to/rejoin. Absolutely correct and the currently polling does not indicate a willingness to reopen the debate and rejoin but the gap between rejoin and stay out is increasing, the last polling I saw at the weekend had rejoin in the very high 40-49% and the stay out in the mid 20-29% Also a lot of undecideds in there too obviously. It does change if you add "and join the Euro" the numnbers come down quite a bit, so definitely a long way to go yet Those figures were from different polling to this one but I can't find them just now 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted January 30, 2023 Moderator Share Posted January 30, 2023 7 minutes ago, Mark Albrighton said: No I get that, thanks. It’s when it’s gets paler. I’m just mildly curious whether those in the bit of Shropshire with me are a tiny bit regretful or a teeny, tiny bit regretful. It looks like there is a paler shade than where I live but it’s not totally clear. white would be 50-50% but you also have to take into account the positions they came from in the referendum A Constituency that was 75% Leave that has shifted to 51% mistake is a hell of a movement in opinion. Look at Walsall North in the table above 74% Leave vote which is down to 20%, it has only retained 38% of it's Brexit supporters. Thats just a huge movement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 The Guardian analysis seemed to suggest it was mostly down to demographic shift rather than people having a change of heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted January 30, 2023 Moderator Share Posted January 30, 2023 27 minutes ago, LondonLax said: The Guardian analysis seemed to suggest it was mostly down to demographic shift rather than people having a change of heart. I presume you are refering to this article? It didn't say that Quote A study by three researchers at the European University Institute, which broke down people’s modified attitudes towards Brexit by age group, suggests that the overall shift is not caused entirely by individuals changing their minds, and that some groups do not seem to be changing their minds very much at all. Quite frankly that line up there is stating the obvious and its no shock at all which groups aren't changing their minds, those closer to death And also it wasn't refering to the same data, rather their article was an analysis of all polling data and wouldn't have included the data Unherd produced today Demographics were always going to play a part. The referendum actually hit the demographic sweet spot for leave voters. In fact the demographic changes were predicted even before the referendum but the shift is much more than demographics alone, there has been a significant shift in opinion too The article also stated an opinion from Prof John Curtice... Quote Curtice cautions that “the answer to the question of what’s been the principal source of change since 2016 is not the same as the the question of what’s been the principal source of change in the last 12 months”. “Only in the last 12 months has support for being in the EU begun to be over 52%. The big change is among leave voters. You don’t get from 52% 12 months ago to 58% now through demographic change. It’s too much and too fast.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choffer Posted January 30, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted January 30, 2023 Clearly not new so it may have been posted already but this is gold. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 (edited) 53 minutes ago, choffer said: Clearly not new so it may have been posted already but this is gold. It’s scary just how right some people think they are. You could tell the MP was slightly embarrassed to have backed Brexit but absolutely nothing on this planet could ever move her 1mm on her opinion. Edited January 30, 2023 by Genie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted January 30, 2023 Moderator Share Posted January 30, 2023 1 minute ago, Genie said: It’s scary just how right wing some imbeciles are. FTFY 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted January 30, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted January 30, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, choffer said: Clearly not new so it may have been posted already but this is gold. Oh my god. It's the RINO movement spreading here. You're not aggressive and mean enough to be a real Brexiteer. I wonder how much disability benefit that obnoxious woman has been claiming, seemed to forget all about her walking stick for a while. Edited January 30, 2023 by sidcow 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted January 30, 2023 Moderator Share Posted January 30, 2023 She got it wrong but instead of admitting her mistake she just doubled down without noticing the dealers ace showing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted January 31, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted January 31, 2023 IMF forecasts The UK to be the only major economy to shrink in 2023. We're all facing the same headwinds...... Except one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 1 hour ago, sidcow said: IMF forecasts The UK to be the only major economy to shrink in 2023. We're all facing the same headwinds...... Except one. The really worrying thing is that Labour are pretty much suggesting they won’t do the obvious thing to fix it either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pas5898 Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 I didn't vote in the Brexit referendum. However, at the time as a younger man if I was forced to choose one way or the other I would have voted to leave. As it appears the benefits of Brexit are fantasy, there should at least be a public conversation about what rejoining would look like vs the current reality of a post brexit britain. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 I still can’t believe that “less red tape” is used as a benefit of leaving a “UNION” who’s main purpose is frictionless trade and movement of people. How can you go from a position of zero admin to something less intrusive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 23 minutes ago, Genie said: The really worrying thing is that Labour are pretty much suggesting they won’t do the obvious thing to fix it either. The "obvious thing to fix it" isn't in Labour's gift to offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, ml1dch said: The "obvious thing to fix it" isn't in Labour's gift to offer. They’ve said no to rejoin EU, a customs union or single market. This means another 4+ years or skirting around the real reason we’re all getting poorer. I could understand if they said “wait and see” or “we’re not sure yet” but to dismiss all 3 is a real concern tbh. I can only hope they’re planning something that is a FTA wrapped up in a name that makes us look like we got a special arrangement. Fixing our economic arrangement with Europe should be top priority for an incoming government. It will help many of the other issues we have. Edited January 31, 2023 by Genie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 13 minutes ago, Genie said: They’ve said no to rejoin EU, a customs union or single market. This means another 4+ years or skirting around the real reason we’re all getting poorer. Because none of those things are in their power to offer without agreement from the other side. And the other side have no interest in reopening discussions about any of the above until there is broad consensus here. Why would they go through the hassle of reliving '17-'19 with a new Labour government, just to see the next Tory administration rip it all up again? They're broadly comfortable with how things are at the moment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted January 31, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted January 31, 2023 (edited) 18 hours ago, bickster said: white would be 50-50% but you also have to take into account the positions they came from in the referendum A Constituency that was 75% Leave that has shifted to 51% mistake is a hell of a movement in opinion. Look at Walsall North in the table above 74% Leave vote which is down to 20%, it has only retained 38% of its Brexit supporters. Thats just a huge movement Same map with the key, confirms that pale colour is “neither” rather than “slightly agree” or whatever. edit - actually not sure it does, but whatever there’s a bit more info on this version Edited January 31, 2023 by Mark Albrighton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 2 hours ago, ml1dch said: Because none of those things are in their power to offer without agreement from the other side. And the other side have no interest in reopening discussions about any of the above until there is broad consensus here. Why would they go through the hassle of reliving '17-'19 with a new Labour government, just to see the next Tory administration rip it all up again? They're broadly comfortable with how things are at the moment. Why would they need the opposition support if they have a majority government? I can understand why full fat EU membership isn’t an option but some other alliance should be a priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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