StefanAVFC Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 6 minutes ago, Genie said: If remain won a second referendum then it would be because people who voted leave last time changed their mind. And more remain voting youngsters turned 18/leave voting older people died Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 I reckon if there was a second referendum >60% of people would vote remain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted December 10, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted December 10, 2018 I reckon Leave would win again unfortunately. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted December 10, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted December 10, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 1 minute ago, HanoiVillan said: While I don't necessarily disagree with the sentiment, what 'constraints' are actually in place by 'European courts'? Because all of the relevant legislation was passed when we were EU members in good standing. Typing 'Iain' into the search engine at the Disability News Service brings up a mountain of grimness. This is one of the more relevant articles. Quote A string of user-led organisations have warned that the government’s “horrifying” plans to scrap the Human Rights Act and replace it with a British bill of rights will lead to a loss of vital legal protection for disabled people. Proposals to bring forward a “British bill of rights” were announced by the government in yesterday’s Queen’s speech, but had been widely predicted after being included in last year’s Conservative general election manifesto and last year’s Queen’s speech. The bill appears in the “strengthening our national security” section of the Queen’s speech background notes, which say that its main benefits will be to “continue protecting fundamental human rights”. But – in wording likely to alarm disability rights campaigners distrustful of the government’s motives – the notes also say that the bill of rights would “better protect against abuse of the system and misuse of human rights laws” and would “restore common sense to their application”. Disability News Service Remember also the swingeing powers the government gave themselves to alter and ignore European legislation in the Brexit transition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 10, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted December 10, 2018 9 hours ago, jackbauer24 said: Forget all the leave/remain arguments - how is a second referendum 'unfair' or 'a betrayal' exactly? Even forgetting the options, or lack there of, surely if it would be unfair to re-run the referendum in case the public's view had changed this should apply to General Elections too? We should vote once in a generation and that's the decision. It's irrelevant what happens after that decision, what lies are revealed, what outside forces dictate, what cultural shifts there are...You make a decision and stick to it in the face of any realisations because that's what you voted for initially? Seems insane to me. Difference is any potential next referendum would give much clearer options than the last one which was just in or out. The next one would be 'this is what in looks like, this is what out looks like" - that's a real choice. I'd respect that far more than the 51% who all voted for different versions of a Leave than the 49% who all voted for the same Remain. Yeah it's kind of ironic. The hard Brexiteers are saying a new referendum would be undemocratic and against the will of the people because we already voted out. But surely if they want the will of the people obeyed, then they should be happy to have another referendum. Because what if the will of the people has changed? So in arguing against a 2nd referendum (for that reason, there are a lot of other reasons why it's a bad idea) they're actually denying the will of the people themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 10, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted December 10, 2018 16 minutes ago, Chindie said: I reckon Leave would win again unfortunately. I thought that for a long time but these days I'm changing my mind. I think it's becoming more and more obvious that leaving is a bad idea and I think (hope) enough leavers would realise that now. That being said, I think there's also a lot of people who voted remain who would now vote leave because they believe the first result should be honoured. So maybe it would balance out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 9 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: That being said, I think there's also a lot of people who voted remain who would now vote leave because they believe the first result should be honoured. So maybe it would balance out. TBH, I didn't really think of that and I think that you're right. There will be people who would be remainers that would vote leave for that reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 2 hours ago, bickster said: A50, as expected, is unilaterally revocable I don't know what it is "A50" but it is not the "Exit" the UK thought it was, this "Exit" it seems, takes the UK all the way back to the "EU Customer Service and EU Loyalty Card renewal" desk & not the car park. "Bonjour, we have been expecting you" words removed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 10, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted December 10, 2018 1 minute ago, Genie said: TBH, I didn't really think of that and I think that you're right. There will be people who would be remainers that would vote leave for that reason. I know it's obviously not a significant sample, but I have a handful of friends and family that fit that description. Voted Remain but would vote leave now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted December 10, 2018 Moderator Share Posted December 10, 2018 55 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: That being said, I think there's also a lot of people who voted remain who would now vote leave because they believe the first result should be honoured. So maybe it would balance out. 1 There's not much evidence of this being a significant proportion of people. Every bit of polling data I've looked at suggests its at least double that change their mind the other way 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Official government position is that tomorrow's vote is going ahead. Definitely won't be put off. No siree. So that sounds as though it's a distinct possibility that it will be postponed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Not that keen on reading the last 300 pages to catch up, so i'll take a wild guess that everyone is still happy with how it's going? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 1 minute ago, snowychap said: Official government position is that tomorrow's vote is going ahead. Definitely won't be put off. No siree. So that sounds as though it's a distinct possibility that it will be postponed. I don't think there's a chance of the vote taking place! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 (edited) How can she bang on and on about democracy this, and will of the people that, then pull shit like this? Vile word removed. Edited December 10, 2018 by StefanAVFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 11 minutes ago, Awol said: Not that keen on reading the last 300 pages to catch up, so i'll take a wild guess that everyone is still happy with how it's going? From a "sit back with popcorn and watch the chaos unfold" perspective, it genuinely couldn't be going better. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted December 10, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted December 10, 2018 16 minutes ago, snowychap said: Official government position is that tomorrow's vote is going ahead. Definitely won't be put off. No siree. So that sounds as though it's a distinct possibility that it will be postponed. Haha. May's prime directive, survive another day. Bound to lose a vote that will risk your position severely? Cancel it. Even if that means you only postpone the inevitable, the postponement is another few days of power, so do it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desensitized43 Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Commons statement from maybot at 3:30 today. Looks like they're pulling it and running back to Brussels for more talks... Entirely predictable this. Hope the EU stand their ground and give her nothing. Time's running out and it's about time May ran out of road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted December 10, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted December 10, 2018 The Commons statement will be the usual double down of will of the people shite so the News at 6 has some footage of her looking 'decisive' and in control, when she's anything but. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Couple of things which dawned on me and worried me slightly is; - Just how difficult it has been to leave. I've always been of the opinion that it wouldn't happen, but it is slightly concerning how difficult it has been to even get to this (shitty) point - Just how inept the government (and even more so, the opposition) have been. I know it was pretty cool to hate on whoever is in, but jesus fucknuts, it's been bad innit? - Just how divided and to the fore politics has become. It's everywhere now. Before 2016 I could probably count on one hand how many times I'd heard "Hard left/hard right" in real life, now it's almost every **** day - How, even though people are given new information, they still don't change their stance. That goes for both sides Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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