The now-enacted will of (some of) the people

[blandy]

2 hours ago, Sid4ever said:

I am guessing Ribble Valley with NE as your MP

Close, Sid.

As the crossword clues go, 1 across.

[blandy]

3 hours ago, tinker said:

Brexit has become the defining issue , it's the most talked about political issue since I can remember. They may not win outright but they will win millions of votes from the 52% who feel betrayed by labour and the conservatives. 

It has, you’re right.  We could go into proportional representation, but that’s a tangent. I’m in favour, but like I say, off topic.

[mjmooney]

I'm actually quite scared with the way things are going. I can see violence erupting over this issue. 

[chrisp65]

52 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

I'm actually quite scared with the way things are going. I can see violence erupting over this issue. 

But on the plus side, ‘islamic’ terrorism has given up as futile their attempts to spread chaos, out gunned by the government in a way nobody predicted.

[HanoiVillan]

4 hours ago, LakotaDakota said:

The question in the short term is do people care more about brexit or who potentially runs the country.

Look at some of the safe seats in the north like St helens, Labour win elections by 20000+ votes yet leave won the vote there by 15000+

Now it is very unlikely that anyone there will vote for boris in any great numbers in a general election but would they vote for Farage?

There are many traditionally safe labour seats in the north that voted to leave by huge margins. How this translates into votes at a general election in the next month or two is anyones guess but i wouldn't be surprised to see the brexit party pick up a chunk of these seats

Nigel Farage has been a national political figure for nearly two decades, and people in the 'Labour Leave' seats you're talking about had numerous opportunities to vote UKIP in general elections. Then May ran a campaign predicated on winning those seats in 2017, and bar one seat in Stoke and one in Walsall they didn't win many of them at all. At the time, May was capturing UKIP voters throughout the country. 

People keep saying that an election will be 'leave vs remain', but it won't, or won't purely. Even now it won't be possible to completely ignore that the government that gets elected will be responsible for the taxes and the hospitals and the schools and the tanks and the forests and the trains and whatever else. 

Edited September 5, 2019 by HanoiVillan

[LakotaDakota]

1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said:

Nigel Farage has been a national political figure for nearly two decades, and people in the 'Labour Leave' seats you're talking about had numerous opportunities to vote UKIP in general elections. Then May ran a campaign predicated on winning those seats in 2017, and bar one seat in Stoke and one in Walsall they didn't win many of them at all. At the time, May was capturing UKIP voters throughout the country. 

People keep saying that an election will be 'leave vs remain', but it won't, or won't purely. Even now it won't be possible to completely ignore that the government that gets elected will be responsible for the taxes and the hospitals and the schools and the tanks and the forests and the trains and whatever else. 

The big difference is that the continual delaying/postponing of Brexit and the complete shambles going on at the moment hadn't happened then, even in 2017 so there was no real need to vote for Farage, why would they, Both parties stood on a manifesto stating that they would be honouring the result of the referendum & May was going to deliver brexit...

Now it will be seen as the only chance that people angry about their leave vote not being respected can actually do something about it. I think you are underestimating just how much both of the main parties have made an awful lot of people very angry by not getting this done already deal or no deal. Honestly for this one off election i don't think many people will even care about taxes/hospitals/schools etc when they are considering where to place their X this time. This is the one and only chance* for people to try and ensure that Brexit happens.

(*apart from the original referendum of course which was also the one and only chance apparently)

Edited September 6, 2019 by LakotaDakota

[Dodgyknees]

5 hours ago, mjmooney said:

I'm actually quite scared with the way things are going. I can see violence erupting over this issue. 

Yep, I think the same.

[PompeyVillan]

1 hour ago, avfcDJ said:

Yep, I think the same.

In which case the country really has gone to the dogs. That will signal to me that the country is veering towards fascism. 

There may be a minority of right wing Brexit extremists that take the streets and cause trouble. But I would only expect a minority. 

[tinker]

5 hours ago, LakotaDakota said:

The big difference is that the continual delaying/postponing of Brexit and the complete shambles going on at the moment hadn't happened then, even in 2017 so there was no real need to vote for Farage, why would they, Both parties stood on a manifesto stating that they would be honouring the result of the referendum & May was going to deliver brexit...

Now it will be seen as the only chance that people angry about their leave vote not being respected can actually do something about it. I think you are underestimating just how much both of the main parties have made an awful lot of people very angry by not getting this done already deal or no deal. Honestly for this one off election i don't think many people will even care about taxes/hospitals/schools etc when they are considering where to place their X this time. This is the one and only chance* for people to try and ensure that Brexit happens.

(*apart from the original referendum of course which was also the one and only chance apparently)

This is how I see it as well, its concerning that so many obviously well educated and read posters don't see this coming and tbh I hope they are right to dismiss it all unfolding like LakotaDakota states.

I don't  think Corbyn sees it either , he delays brexit, annoys 52% of the public the Tory party implodes leaving the public to vote for who? Labour ? No chance , it will be the Brexit party if they can get enough MP's to stand and scraping the bottom of the barrel who knows what type of right wing thugs will get into power .

Anyway I'm off to debate the Grealish  'dive'

[ChrisVillan]

52% of the public? When did that go up?

[ml1dch]

Hot take from Quentin Letts. "Maybe Johnson should just be a bit more like Robert Mugabe"

 

 

[HanoiVillan]

6 hours ago, LakotaDakota said:

The big difference is that the continual delaying/postponing of Brexit and the complete shambles going on at the moment hadn't happened then, even in 2017 so there was no real need to vote for Farage, why would they, Both parties stood on a manifesto stating that they would be honouring the result of the referendum & May was going to deliver brexit...

Now it will be seen as the only chance that people angry about their leave vote not being respected can actually do something about it. I think you are underestimating just how much both of the main parties have made an awful lot of people very angry by not getting this done already deal or no deal. Honestly for this one off election i don't think many people will even care about taxes/hospitals/schools etc when they are considering where to place their X this time. This is the one and only chance* for people to try and ensure that Brexit happens.

(*apart from the original referendum of course which was also the one and only chance apparently)

Time will tell of course, but I feel very confident in my prediction. If you give me an over/under on the Brexit Party winning half a dozen seats, I'll take the under. 

[cyrusr]

19 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Time will tell of course, but I feel very confident in my prediction. If you give me an over/under on the Brexit Party winning half a dozen seats, I'll take the under. 

If they win even 1 seat, NF will take that as a massive sign that he remains relevant. UKIP over their many years failed to make a dent in a GE. The current unease/anger with Brexit at the moment is probably going to lead to a lot of votes, but because of FPTP, it will not in turn lead to seats.

[snowychap]

People talk about those people who voted leave (and who may feel their voted ignored or not respected) as the only part of the electorate that is up for grabs. That just isn't correct.

[snowychap]

 

All as expected, really.

Edited September 6, 2019 by snowychap

[villa4europe]

3 hours ago, PompeyVillan said:

In which case the country really has gone to the dogs. That will signal to me that the country is veering towards fascism. 

There may be a minority of right wing Brexit extremists that take the streets and cause trouble. But I would only expect a minority. 

it will be bad

it will start with a march, protests, a large gathering of a lot of people with pockets of right wingers running throughout plus then % of people who are just there in anticipation of what comes next...it will get a bit lairy, something will trigger someone...it will be water cannons at dawn and that will of course be followed by the looting of JD sports because how else do you show your displeasure over the demise of democracy (maybe burning some local shops)

in the same way that 4 days of riots followed the police shooting of a kid in London in 2011, something bigger is coming before this is all over, if we stay it will be worse but I can riots regardless

[bickster]

Tim Martin knocking 20p off a pint in his chain of shite boozers to prove how Brexit will reduce prices

This is despite the fact we haven't left yet and most of his beers are UK produced

It's just a disingenuous bribe

[bickster]

2 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

it will be bad

it will start with a march, protests, a large gathering of a lot of people with pockets of right wingers running throughout plus then % of people who are just there in anticipation of what comes next...it will get a bit lairy, something will trigger someone...it will be water cannons at dawn and that will of course be followed by the looting of JD sports because how else do you show your displeasure over the demise of democracy (maybe burning some local shops)

in the same way that 4 days of riots followed the police shooting of a kid in London in 2011, something bigger is coming before this is all over, if we stay it will be worse but I can riots regardless

Dare I say it... the real Project Fear appears to be working

[Dodgyknees]

3 hours ago, PompeyVillan said:

In which case the country really has gone to the dogs. That will signal to me that the country is veering towards fascism. 

There may be a minority of right wing Brexit extremists that take the streets and cause trouble. But I would only expect a minority. 

I haven't looked, this is based on what I remember reading, but I think hate crimes have risen? It won't take much to spark a mass protest and violence, and remember, F**krage once set "I'll get my gun", these people are dangerous.

[mjmooney]

Interestingly, as far as taking to the streets goes, it's the Remainers who have the numbers. Brexiter 'rallies' so far have been pretty risible. 

That wasn't what I had in mind. I think we'll see more things like prominent Remainers targetted like Owen Jones was recently, or even worse, Jo Cox. For all his outrageous behaviour, I don't think Boris needs to fear for his safety from violent Remain nutters. But if - say - Corbyn were to become PM, I wouldn't put it past some right wing headcase to have a pop at him or his colleagues.