The Rémi Garde thread

[Neil]

11 minutes ago, MikeMcKenna said:

Where did I say relegation is going to help our long term future? Like nearly everyone else I have accepted that is a nailed on certainty and see no point in bringing someone in who specialises in saving clubs from relegation. We are basically ****** for now. As for the benefit of hindsight; Its a wonderful thing!

It's what were facing under the current manager, to which you cite as our long term future so much so over managers who may have been enough to keep us up.

Intact, one is currently chipping away slowly at keeping a club in the hunt for survival.  The other is yet to chaulk a single win - with teams of similar shitness.

[Xela]

12 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

This was the argument wasn't it when under Lambert the names Pulis or Allardyce were mentioned it was that they play shit football or that they have a glass ceiling that will never take you above mid table. We haven't played good football for years we have played the worst kind of football, losing football, and we haven't sat mid table for six years.

For me Allardyce and Pulis play effective football. They access what they have, strip things back to basics and get the best out of average players. Given what we have had at our disposal the last few years they'd have been perfect for us and I'd put my house on us being a mid to lower table team now which is infinitely better than where we currently find ourselves.

It might not be pretty but you know what you are getting with them guys. Under Lambert, Sherwood and now Garde we haven't really had a clue but the culmination of it all is relegation.

Very true.

Last season when we appointed Sherwood and Baggies appointed Pulis, it looked as though we had done the better business. How wrong we were! 

Given a choice of lining up first day of next season with either Pulis, Allardyce, Pearson or Garde in charge, I'm sorry Remi, nice guy that you are, you are bottom of that list. 

 

[markavfc40]

38 minutes ago, VillaCas said:

For me every manager should be judged after he has had the chance to bring in his own players and mould his own team.  The fact that Garde can do no better with the shower of shite available to him than Sherwood could is all to do with the addled decisons of the existing heirarchy and little to do with Garde.

There is zero chance that we can bring anything in during January who can make a difference so for me Garde has got the summer and then the first dozen games of next season to prove himself

McLeish, Lambert and Sherwood (although I hated Sherwood) have not been given the tools to do the job.  Our energies are much better spent hounding Fox and Co than worrying about Garde (for the moment)

I would be amazed on two levels if results continue at anything like the level they are now if he was still here next season. Firstly if they did then by May he will be completely drained and have lost faith in his own ability. Secondly there is no way I could see a manager going into another season having overseen a team average around 0.5 points a game over two thirds of a season. Despite what Fox has said the board could not have expected we would show zero improvement under the new man and be prepared to put up with that for a sustained period. There would have been no point in spending the millions of pounds in changing manager just to maintain the same level of appalling results.

Your right though he won't be backed to anything like the level needed now to make significant changes to the squad. To earn that right he had to keep us in touch and he failed. Your also right in that the issues at this club run way deeper than the manager and won't be solved simply by making another one a scapegoat. That doesn't give any manager a free hand though to continue regardless of results.
 

Edited January 3, 2016 by markavfc40

[TRO]

8 minutes ago, praisedmambo said:

You're comparing apples and oranges. The only team as cheapskate as ours in that list is Sunderland, and last I saw before playing us they had lost five games in a row, and they're only a little better off than we are. Remi Garde has had the worst hand out of all those managers by lightyears. Not only did we narrowly avoid relegation last year, but we then went on and sold or lost three or four of our best players. There's more than an argument that Benteke has been integral in keeping us up in the last few years, even though he'd been injured for a significant period. Look at the likes of Sunderland—they've not lost their best players and they still have a striker who can score goals. Maybe we could have beaten them with Ayew but we'll never know. 

Overall, we're shit and I feel sorry for Remi Garde. What's happening is all on Lerner. MON said back in the day that you need to spend £15million a year just to stand still in the Premiership, and I think he's right. All those teams, Stoke, Crystal Palace, Watford etc. have invested wisely over the previous few seasons. The promoted teams were promoted from the Championship because they had good players and they were well-run. We've been cut to shreds with Lerner Austerity, and it's only a surprise it's taken this long. 

It wasn't meant to criticise Garde and I disagree with your apples and oranges analogy.

It was a question

I respect the view that a dedicated annual approach to improving the squad is crucial and that can also include the academy if you get lucky. Money is always necessary, the amount is debatable v the ability to spot and secure talent.....they are very much related in terms of successful result.

All those teams mentioned have some players who have cost modest sums....I would hazard a guess without drilling down that Lerner has released sufficient funds , not to get cut adrift in the fashion that we are, particularly in January of a season.

The 4 players who left in the summer was a massive blow, but did they know what was coming?

Nothing comes out of B6 that is clear to where the cancer is everyone just seems to blame everyone else.....Randy Lerner is certainly culpable, there is no doubt, but there have been and still is other owners chairman that despite their poor running of the club has made a better fist of performances on the field.

[sharkyvilla]

I still think we'd get sick of Allardyce or Pulis pretty quick.  It's perhaps unfortunate that Moyes didn't get sacked for another couple of weeks as he'd be a lot more palatable than them.  It wouldn't hide the fact that there is something rotten at the core that the aftermath of the Leicester shambles exacerbated, however.  Hopefully Remi can pull off a few miracles in the transfer market and we can gather at least a bit of damage limitation.

[AntrimBlack]

I don't know if Garde is the answer, but I see no forward plan with the likes of Allardyce, even Moyes. Garde was possibly not the right manager for the quick fix to keep us in the league, but he may well be the right manager for the long term to steadily build a better team and club, and he should be given every chance to do so. I have supported Aston Villa for a very long time, and I have never been as bored with them as I have been over the last number of seasons. I long for something to happen to give you younger supporters at least some of the excitement and pride I have had over the years. And we will not get that from the safe, stodgy managers who would have been the alternative to Garde.

[Xela]

2 minutes ago, AntrimBlack said:

I don't know if Garde is the answer, but I see no forward plan with the likes of Allardyce, even Moyes. Garde was possibly not the right manager for the quick fix to keep us in the league, but he may well be the right manager for the long term to steadily build a better team and club, and he should be given every chance to do so. I have supported Aston Villa for a very long time, and I have never been as bored with them as I have been over the last number of seasons. I long for something to happen to give you younger supporters at least some of the excitement and pride I have had over the years. And we will not get that from the safe, stodgy managers who would have been the alternative to Garde.

There is no plan at Villa at all, let alone a forward plan. 

The 'safe and stodgy' managers have their place, in the fact they stop the rot and build a base. Look at West Ham and Stoke now after the jobs Allardyce and Pulis did there. They built the foundations and others managers, with a better vision will take that on and improve.

We need someone to stop the rot and put a spine back into this team. 

[useless]

People have been moaning on here for the last five years or so and it's of no consequence whatsoever, at least in terms of what happens at the club. And that's the way it will continue until Lerner sells the club.

[sharkyvilla]

1 minute ago, Xela said:

There is no plan at Villa at all, let alone a forward plan. 

The 'safe and stodgy' managers have their place, in the fact they stop the rot and build a base. Look at West Ham and Stoke now after the jobs Allardyce and Pulis did there. They built the foundations and others managers, with a better vision will take that on and improve.

We need someone to stop the rot and put a spine back into this team. 

That's fair enough, but I don't see why Garde can't put a spine back into the team himself.  Whoever took over from Sherwood would have had to muddle through to the window with a dodgy keeper, poor centre halves, no left back, a lightweight midfield, a useless lump up front and some project players with shattered confidence.  We need to wait and see what we can bring in during the window and if things can improve as a result.

[Xela]

1 minute ago, sharkyvilla said:

That's fair enough, but I don't see why Garde can't put a spine back into the team himself.  Whoever took over from Sherwood would have had to muddle through to the window with a dodgy keeper, poor centre halves, no left back, a lightweight midfield, a useless lump up front and some project players with shattered confidence.  We need to wait and see what we can bring in during the window and if things can improve as a result.

He may well be able to but I haven't seen anything in his tenure to suggest he can. Ultimately he's got until the end of the season to show the fans that he is the right manager for us. I hope he improves us dramatically but I just can't see it. He is no improvement on Sherwood (so far)

I hope I'm proved wrong as he seems a decent guy. 

[TRO]

1 hour ago, VillaCas said:

For me every manager should be judged after he has had the chance to bring in his own players and mould his own team.  The fact that Garde can do no better with the shower of shite available to him than Sherwood could is all to do with the addled decisons of the existing heirarchy and little to do with Garde.

There is zero chance that we can bring anything in during January who can make a difference so for me Garde has got the summer and then the first dozen games of next season to prove himself

McLeish, Lambert and Sherwood (although I hated Sherwood) have not been given the tools to do the job.  Our energies are much better spent hounding Fox and Co than worrying about Garde (for the moment)

He has to be given a chance for sure and his signings will be an integral part of that chance.

The Sherwood thing puzzles me ( and I respect the fact that personalities can influence peoples perception of them)....I don't think there is a manager in our c130 year history, that has present us with A FA cup final ( not achieved in just short of 60 years) and save us from relegation and was hated....not disliked or questioned.... HATED.

I Never felt strongly that Sherwood was the right Manger, but I thought I will give him a chance.....but what confuses me is the vitriol and Hate that some fans have for him, quite frankly baffles me .....and further more, I think it was the case before this season started.

admittedly, the cup Final was pants.

Edited January 3, 2016 by TRO

[TRO]

43 minutes ago, Xela said:

There is no plan at Villa at all, let alone a forward plan. 

The 'safe and stodgy' managers have their place, in the fact they stop the rot and build a base. Look at West Ham and Stoke now after the jobs Allardyce and Pulis did there. They built the foundations and others managers, with a better vision will take that on and improve.

We need someone to stop the rot and put a spine back into this team. 

Absolutley, spot on.

In a normal business, haemorraging money....... a certain type of managing director is required to come in and stop the rot.

When that business eventually returns to  "break even" and subsequently returns to small profit another more enterprising MD is required to fire the business up the profit league.

This is quite common.

There is a parallel

We would do well to mirror the strategy. 

Edited January 3, 2016 by TRO

[onmeedson]

The main sin that is there for all to see is the total lack of fight, apart from a little ayew  cameo that ended in him being mugged for lack of discipline. Any of them managers above would not of stood for capitulation in such a cowardly fashion. No one wants a pulis or big sam but sometimes you cannot remain a rabble and someone has to take responsibility and at least get them organised.  

[Whatever happened to .....]

Ilori and Senderos off then and not even tried out in the PL. WTF ?

[TRO]

The problem with a long term plan is......If there is no short term or medium term plan.....There is no long term

Edited January 3, 2016 by TRO

[markavfc40]

33 minutes ago, Xela said:

There is no plan at Villa at all, let alone a forward plan. 

The 'safe and stodgy' managers have their place, in the fact they stop the rot and build a base. Look at West Ham and Stoke now after the jobs Allardyce and Pulis did there. They built the foundations and others managers, with a better vision will take that on and improve.

We need someone to stop the rot and put a spine back into this team. 

That is a great post and sums up where the club have gone wrong. We needed someone to come in over the last handful of years and put the brakes on our reverse and as you say stop the rot. Nothing fancy Dan, not trying to build a philosophy just get us back to basics, getting the simple things right of solid defending and playing to the strengths of the squad. I look at our squad and we have a lightweight midfield who often panic in possession or lack ability and/or confidence to pay penetrative forward passes, a couple of big lumps who play up top and a number of speed merchants. I'd have focussed on quickly getting the ball back to front play off the big man get the ball out wide with plenty of crosses into the box. Not pretty but effective.

I am not sure what Sherwood was trying to do with this mob for much of the season and I am not sure what Garde has done since he has been here. The defence is usually the first thing you sort out but has gradually looked worse, he has often gone with Ayew up top on his own and we have failed to keep possession in the final third as nothing has stuck or we have not had the midfielders capable of picking out Ayews runs and play to his strengths. We needed to employ simple tactics. If in doubt f**k it out at the back and going forward look to play in the final third and if that means by passing the midfield so be it.

An Allardyce or Pulis could have stabilised this club and then perhaps a Remi Garde could have then come in. We have gone about it completely wrong though and now employed a guy who looks like a fish out of water and totally clue less as to how to stop the rot. I feel for him as he may well have been the right man at completely the wrong time. It seems likely he is the wrong man for us now and both him, and more importantly us, will pay a heavy price for that.

Edited January 3, 2016 by markavfc40

[PaulC]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

I have a sneaky, sneaky feeling some who post on this site, would not have enjoyed the football under Ron Saunders/Tony Barton.

give me winning football every time.

Under Saunders the team from 76/77 I would say was our most exiting ever. 5-1 Liverpool, 5-1 Arsenal, 5-2 Ipswich. 

[Dr_Pangloss]

12 minutes ago, Whatever happened to ..... said:

Ilori and Senderos off then and not even tried out in the PL. WTF ?

It's odd, Ilori is supposed to be decent and Senderos never looked that bad when he played for us.

[Mantis]

27 minutes ago, TRO said:

He has to be given a chance for sure and his signings will be an integral part of that chance.

The Sherwood thing puzzles me ( and I respect the fact that personalities can influence peoples perception of them)....I don't think there is a manager in our c130 year history, that has present us with A FA cup final ( not achieved in just short of 60 years) and save us from relegation and was hated....not disliked or questioned.... HATED.

I Never felt strongly that Sherwood was the right Manger, but I thought I will give him a chance.....but what confuses me is the vitriol and Hate that some fans have for him, quite frankly baffles me .....and further more, I think it was the case before this season started.

admittedly, the cup Final was pants.

Is it really that much of a surprise that Sherwood is hated given that we completely surrendered in the cup final and he helped to put us on course for relegation this season? He wasn't hated in the summer.

[Spoony]

6 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

That is a great post and sums up where the club have gone wrong. We needed someone to come in over the last handful of years and put the brakes on our reverse and as you say stop the rot. Nothing fancy Dan, not trying to build a philosophy just get us back to basics, getting the simple things right of solid defending and playing to the strengths of the squad. I look at our squad and we have a lightweight midfield who often panic in possession or lack ability and/or confidence to pay penetrative forward passes, a couple of big lumps who play up top and a number of speed merchants. I'd have focussed on quickly getting the ball back to front play off the big man get the ball out wide with plenty of crosses into the box. Not pretty but effective.

I am not sure what Sherwood was trying to do with this mob for much of the season and I am not sure what Garde has done since he has been here. The defence is usually the first thing you sort out but has gradually looked worse, he has often gone with Ayew up top on his own and we have failed to keep possession in the final third as nothing has stuck or we have not had the midfielders capable of picking out Ayews runs and play to his strengths. We needed to employ simple tactics. If in doubt f**k it out at the back and going forward look to play in the final third and if that means by passing the midfield so be it.

An Allardyce or Pulis could have stabilised this club and then perhaps a Remi Garde could have then come in. We have gone about it completely wrong though and now employed a guy who looks like a fish out of water and totally clue less as to how to stop the rot. I feel for him as he may well have been the right man at completely the wrong time. It seems likely he is the wrong man for us now and both him, and more importantly us, will pay a heavy price for that.

Tbh I'm not sure I agree. I think Lambert pretty much fulfilled that role. We played crap football and that kept us in the league. That was something to build upon, but we never did.