blandy Posted November 3, 2015 Author Moderator Share Posted November 3, 2015 Wanting to do stuff, and having a view or a principle are much less important than winning or looking like a winner - this is party politics. Trying and failing to get a vote on this would make them look bad, so they're not going to try. I think they think it's the right thing to do, I think they think that's less important than 'winning'; and they might not win the vote, this might make them look bad, so the principle is out of the window - party politics in a nutshell.I think that's also why there are people in the labour party who don't want Corbyn because being Labour is less important than winning - both parties have people that don't believe in anything but power.Totally agree. And on top of that I think they want to do something at least in part because it'll make them "look good" and make the american gov't happy and make them look big.They have no plan and no coherent idea of who in the awful mess is the good guys and bad guys (I suspect there aren't any good guys). They have no idea what success resulting from their actions would look like, in terms of results in Syria. As AWOL said ages ago, the only way all these groups of nutters and fanatics could be adversely affected would be with troops on the ground. But there's no guarantee "we" would win and every guarantee that there would be more death and destruction and bodies coming back to the UK and all the other horrors.So troops on the ground is out of the question and that renders Air strikes completely pointless, or as near as. Furthermore they've neutered the RAF to a huge extent with their cost cutting at the 2010 (laughable) SDSR. SO much so that we could barely actually do anything anyway. It would be purely tokenism. There are no upsides to us being involved militarily in this way. Don't they ever learn? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Have to say this keeping a history of peoples last year what they surf for me is absolutely ridiculous 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 (edited) Have to say this keeping a history of peoples last year what they surf for me is absolutely ridiculousIt's invasive, expensive, and pointless.Anybody with even the slightest concern about surveillance can type a few words in to Google, and have a VPN connection through an overseas server in a matter of minutes.It's going to cost the ISPs to store all of this extra data, that'll entirely be made up of stupid shit that the police have no interest in. On top of that, it'll lead to interesting questions about identifying internet users, if they try to use ISP logs as evidence. An IP address is not a person. Edited November 4, 2015 by Davkaus 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 I thought I read the other week they were going to remove the 12 months browsing history part from the bill ...If the commons don't do the right thing and defeat this bill then we the people should be marching on the Houses of Parliament with pitchforks , but no doubt the nothing to hide nothing to fear brigade will be along shortly ...... I'm sure the Govt will be using algorithms to flag suspicious activity and wont be reading my emails or checking my browsing history but that really isn't the point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 100 million percent people need to protest against this its wrong on every level Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted November 4, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted November 4, 2015 Good of the Tories to get back to business and remind us all what a genuinely dangerous bunch of arseholes they all are. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villaninireland Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 I hate them especially IBS as I call him. I am officially classed as disabled & I am now £70 a month worse off which does not sound a lot but that is the difference between just about coping to now struggling. These b*st**ds are making me ill. Anxiety has now progressed to OCD & panic attacks . What makes me mad is that some of these scumbags are receiving up to £25 grand a year in accommodation costs yet begrudge disabled people like me £70 a month because I live in a 2 bedroomed pensioners bungalow as there are no one bedroomed ones round here. I need to live next to people I trust as I have trouble going anywhere on my own & my neighbour runs me around in his car . Being disabled is not a lifestyle choice but these people treat us as if it is. Rant over. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 to flag suspicious activity and wont be reading my emails or checking my browsing history but that really isn't the point I think that's bad enough.I don't have a huge objection to the equivalent of phone tapping, when it comes to internet usage. If there's a suspect being investigated for a crime, I think the police should have the ability to request the ISP start logging web traffic, for the duration of the investigation. Constantly logging all traffic, and allowing the police to go throw the archive is horrifying, IMO. Imagine if they did the same for phone calls, and instead of tapping your phone if they suspect you of something with a court order, they tap everyone's phones, and got to listen in to every single call you'd had in the last year. It'd be absurd if it wasn't so scary.Not to mention the analysis on a wider scale they can do. Their initial goal seems to be to be able to dig through a user's history to see if there's anything suspicious, it won't be long before that switches around, and they're running queries to extract a full list of users who have visited a certain site, without getting a court order against individuals. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Labour and the Lib Dems are supporting it. words removed, all of them, they surrender our privacy without a trace of shame. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post markavfc40 Posted November 4, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted November 4, 2015 I hate them especially IBS as I call him. I am officially classed as disabled & I am now £70 a month worse off which does not sound a lot but that is the difference between just about coping to now struggling. These b*st**ds are making me ill. Anxiety has now progressed to OCD & panic attacks . What makes me mad is that some of these scumbags are receiving up to £25 grand a year in accommodation costs yet begrudge disabled people like me £70 a month because I live in a 2 bedroomed pensioners bungalow as there are no one bedroomed ones round here. I need to live next to people I trust as I have trouble going anywhere on my own & my neighbour runs me around in his car . Being disabled is not a lifestyle choice but these people treat us as if it is. Rant over.That is not a rant mate. That is a heartfelt statement of how your life has been directly affected by these bastards and I genuinely feel for you.It is situations like yours that mean I simply could never vote for the Tories. This is what they do. They destroy life’s. Not mine as it happens. I have said before I am under no illusions that I am better off under this mob than I may have been under the other lot. I don’t see life like that though and a few extra pounds in my pocket a month does not erase my conscience and help turn a blind eye to the plight of those less fortunate, the elderly, the sick, the disabled who are being stung in the pocket as well as having vital public services slashed that they are heavily reliant on.Unfortunately main stream media don’t focus on the plight of people like you anywhere near enough and would rather focus on the benefit cheats and the work dodgers who make up a tiny proportion of those on benefits. The everyday Joe then gets the wrong impression of those on benefits. The whole thing stinks. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted November 4, 2015 Author Moderator Share Posted November 4, 2015 I don't have a huge objection to the equivalent of phone tapping, when it comes to internet usage. If there's a suspect being investigated for a crime, I think the police should have the ability to request the ISP start logging web traffic, for the duration of the investigation. Constantly logging all traffic, and allowing the police to go through...This.If there are reasons to suspect someone is up to something, then by all means get a warrant and then collect or monitor the extra info.Given that it's surely relatively easy to hide nefarious internet activity by going to an internet Cafe, or using TOR or VPNs and all the rest - anyone with half a brain would be able to take steps to avoid this, while normal people have their data collated and possibly sold/hacked/lost or whatever else.They should be starting the other way round - if there are places on the internet that are the equivalent of a drug-den, or stolen car garage or bomb factory or whatever, then monitor it, see who goes there and follow up on those visitors. Do that rather than essentially following everyone all of the time. It's going to massively counter productive for some groups of society - Muslim people, climate change campaigners, poverty protesters, people doing research into certain areas - say radicalisation, or people trafficking.US lot chattering away on here are not interesting enough to have their attentions, but they simply should not be permitted to monitor us all, all the time. They work for us, we are not their subjects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 They are already doing it, now it's just called "legal".Shameful that the "progressive" Labour Party fell in line with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted November 4, 2015 Author Moderator Share Posted November 4, 2015 Yeah, they've been doing it for 20+ years. And all the politicians have just acquiesced. Broken system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 (edited) I don't have a huge objection to the equivalent of phone tapping, when it comes to internet usage. If there's a suspect being investigated for a crime, I think the police should have the ability to request the ISP start logging web traffic, for the duration of the investigation. Constantly logging all traffic, and allowing the police to go through... This.If there are reasons to suspect someone is up to something, then by all means get a warrant and then collect or monitor the extra info. Given that it's surely relatively easy to hide nefarious internet activity by going to an internet Cafe, or using TOR or VPNs and all the rest - anyone with half a brain would be able to take steps to avoid this, while normal people have their data collated and possibly sold/hacked/lost or whatever else. They should be starting the other way round - if there are places on the internet that are the equivalent of a drug-den, or stolen car garage or bomb factory or whatever, then monitor it, see who goes there and follow up on those visitors. Do that rather than essentially following everyone all of the time. It's going to massively counter productive for some groups of society - Muslim people, climate change campaigners, poverty protesters, people doing research into certain areas - say radicalisation, or people trafficking. US lot chattering away on here are not interesting enough to have their attentions, but they simply should not be permitted to monitor us all, all the time. They work for us, we are not their subjects. I'm starting to warm to the bill after all ... Edited November 4, 2015 by tonyh29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted November 4, 2015 Author Moderator Share Posted November 4, 2015 From your position living under a bridge...;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Labour and the Lib Dems are supporting it. words removed, all of them, they surrender our privacy without a trace of shame.i was about to say if this went through im not voting tories ever again but if these clowns are all voting it all in. Im not voting anymoreDoea anyone actually think these politicians web history is likely to be monitored? Yeah right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swerbs Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 I see the future generation of McDonalds workers with humanities degrees have been out on the streets again today .. if you want to smash things up people join the Bullingdon club ..otherwise get a job and stay off the streets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 I don't have a huge objection to the equivalent of phone tapping, when it comes to internet usage. If there's a suspect being investigated for a crime, I think the police should have the ability to request the ISP start logging web traffic, for the duration of the investigation. Constantly logging all traffic, and allowing the police to go through... This.If there are reasons to suspect someone is up to something, then by all means get a warrant and then collect or monitor the extra info. Given that it's surely relatively easy to hide nefarious internet activity by going to an internet Cafe, or using TOR or VPNs and all the rest - anyone with half a brain would be able to take steps to avoid this, while normal people have their data collated and possibly sold/hacked/lost or whatever else. They should be starting the other way round - if there are places on the internet that are the equivalent of a drug-den, or stolen car garage or bomb factory or whatever, then monitor it, see who goes there and follow up on those visitors. Do that rather than essentially following everyone all of the time. It's going to massively counter productive for some groups of society - Muslim people, climate change campaigners, poverty protesters, people doing research into certain areas - say radicalisation, or people trafficking. US lot chattering away on here are not interesting enough to have their attentions, but they simply should not be permitted to monitor us all, all the time. They work for us, we are not their subjects. I'm starting to warm ... climate change, y'see 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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