Jon Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 I thnk the moral of the story is don't constantly badmouth your employers on social media, especially when you have a few of the more senior staff members as 'Friends' on social media. It's never really going to end well .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 You would be in a far better position if you had been in a union. The one thing they do well is provide support in those sort of situations and ensure that the employer follows the law and procedure. There is a right and proper procedure for sacking an employee which is laid down in law and must be followed, if a dismissal is not to result in an employment tribunal. Just the awareness that an employee has access to legal advice and the resources to go all the way, if necessary, is usually enough to prevent the HR from lying and managers from ignoring proper procedure. The last thing they want is to have to spend money on lawyers and sending managers to tribunals, or worse still, getting their name in the papers. Sacking someone by phone after an 'informal' investigative meeting, is cowardly, underhand and unprofessional. In my experience HR people are the very spawn of Beelzebub. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Could Be Rotterdam Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 If they didn't leave it at least 24 hours before letting you know the decision you have a case right there and you can rightfully claim that they didn't take it fully into consideration and knew what the result would be before the hearing. Definately challenge it even f it's for a nice payout! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 it might be worth remembering at this point that to take a company 'to court' you should first go through ACAS, if the greivance still stands then an individual can go to employment tribunal recently changes by government mean there is now a fee for this, in order to stop vexatious claims to lodge an official complaint and start the process now costs £250 to take the claim to a hearing costs a further £950 so, any serious claim and attempt to gain compensation, requires the individual to take a £1,200 punt on the outcome 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mozzavfc Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 This whole thing is as rotten as DK82's foot You should definitely seek legal advice 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 it might be worth remembering at this point that to take a company 'to court' you should first go through ACAS, if the greivance still stands then an individual can go to employment tribunal recently changes by government mean there is now a fee for this, in order to stop vexatious claims Well, that was how they span it. to lodge an official complaint and start the process now costs £250 to take the claim to a hearing costs a further £950 so, any serious claim and attempt to gain compensation, requires the individual to take a £1,200 punt on the outcome I also believe that the fees are not necessarily recoverable even if one were to win a tribunal case (they are discretionary and awarded as casts, i.e. they carry the same risk of non-recovery as would any award and are not a refund from the court service). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 I was attempting to be 'measured'. I've seen it from both sides here in this office. People have been sacked on some fairly spurious reasons and not had the gumption to challenge it, but equally, we've had a larger number that were sacked because they were genuinely incompetent or nuts and they've put in claims so we've taken the view, chuck them an extra grand rather than pay legal fees and get tied up in non fee earning hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) Oh, I have no doubt that there are a great deal of vexatious claims just as there are obviously shockingly poor calls by employers - all like you said. Only, the introduction of fees doesn't just address vexatious claims but, I'd have thought, would be pretty effective in putting off people with a very reasonable claim (or at least one on which a tribunal should be making a decision), especially if they've just lost their job and their ability to spare a few hundred quid or more. The intent of the government, surely, was just to reduce claims/make taking a case to a tribunal a very unattractive proposition whether vexatious or vaild (wasn't it risky enough for vexatious claims that costs could be awarded against a claimant?). It would address two issues for them - the old 'business red tape' one and court service costs. It also would go hand in hand with their apparent intention to reduce access to the law to those with less money. Edit: Perhaps this post ought to be in the Blood sucking... thread? Edited July 23, 2015 by snowychap 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Oh, I have no doubt that there are a great deal of vexatious claims just as there are obviously shockingly poor calls by employers - all like you said. Only, the introduction of fees doesn't just address vexatious claims but, I'd have thought, would be pretty effective in putting off people with a very reasonable claim (or at least one on which a tribunal should be making a decision), especially if they've just lost their job and their ability to spare a few hundred quid or more. The intent of the government, surely, was just to reduce claims/make taking a case to a tribunal a very unattractive proposition whether vexatious or vaild (wasn't it risky enough for vexatious claims that costs could be awarded against a claimant?). It would address two issues for them - the old 'business red tape' one and court service costs. It also would go hand in hand with their apparent intention to reduce access to the law to those with less money. Edit: Perhaps this post ought to be in the Blood sucking... thread? Aye. **** the proles. We're heading, quite quickly, back to Victorian Britain. On this, and many other issues. If you're part of the elite/landed gentry, or have lots of money, you'll be fine. If not .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 it might be worth remembering at this point that to take a company 'to court' you should first go through ACAS, if the greivance still stands then an individual can go to employment tribunal recently changes by government mean there is now a fee for this, in order to stop vexatious claims to lodge an official complaint and start the process now costs £250 to take the claim to a hearing costs a further £950 so, any serious claim and attempt to gain compensation, requires the individual to take a £1,200 punt on the outcome I friend of mine was told his case could cost up to £30 k ... his case was messy , his boss didn't like him and was clearly making his life hell , he applied for a job in another department and was told he had been given it , so he then resigned in writing to his boss for his current position , the new position was then withdrawn from him and then they said we accept your resignation here is your leaving date ..his letter clearly stated he was leaving that department as he'd been offered another position within the company , he was a bit daft writing the letter in the first place and I suspect it was a satisfaction of telling his boss to jog on type of letter that back fired badly on him .... He had a meeting with the owners but all his witnesses decided to put their job security before helping him so he lost them fairly quickly but luckily he had plenty of documentation and in the end they decided to settle whilst he was still deciding to go ahead or not ... would have been a tough call had it gone to a tribunal to be honest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) I had the opticians today, I wish I'd punched him in the face just in case it was your boss. Edited July 23, 2015 by sharkyvilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enda Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Very sorry for your trouble, Stewie. Shite situation. Fingers crossed the other job works out for you. Have a think about chatting with Citizens Advice etc. Worst scenario is they tell you've don't have a case, which you won't have anyway if you do nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewieGriffin Posted July 23, 2015 Author Share Posted July 23, 2015 Apparently a group of about 8 staff (they dont have many more than that!) are all going to call in sick Saturday and Sunday in protest, and they're each sending a letter to the store manager, HR, Head Office and possibly even the CEO. Wont get me reinstated i know, but nice to have support. Had a chat with CAB and she seemed to think id been treated a little harshly as opposed to unfairly and sent me a few links. My main points so far are (in no order)... 1) although what i did falls into 'gross misconduct' category, doesnt mean dismissal was inevitable result and 7 years of clean service were not taken into account. 2) Clearly not undermined trust or confidence of staff, and no evidence anyone has been offended/threatened 3) i was told by a member of staff that prior to my disciplinary yesterday, cover from another branch had been arranged for the next 2 weeks and that there was a note for a member of management to call recruitment back regarding a vacancy 4) a witness i had requested was not called 5) my hearing was done by someone who is good friends with someone in store who i believe to be involved in reporting me 6) i was asked to put myself in the position of the CEO seeing this situation and how id resolve it 7) had to wait 8 days between initial meeting and disciplinary, which seemed unnecessary given the relative straightforwardness of the incident 8) staff in store all appeared to know what was happening, so clearly either someone from the initial meeting or the person(s) responsible for reporting me have spread the word, to the point where the manager had to call a staff meeting to stop gossiping 9) a member of staff told me she had overheard 2 people discussing "what they had done" and when i asked her take her concerns to the store manager she was called a "liar" and a "gossip" 10) no copy of the notes from the initial meeting was made available to me, which violates the ACAS guide to disciplinary and grievance at work (page 15) 11) after a 45 minute adjournment, the manager doing the meeting and the HR person were late back as "they couldn't find anywhere to sit in the town centre and then had to wait for food", and then she requested more time to decide so she called me 2 hours later and told me. She had admitted early in the meeting that this was her first disciplinary and i got the impression she didnt have the balls to sack me face-to-face 12) points 4, 5, 8, 9, 10 and possibly 11 make it clear that the company have not followed policies correctly throughout incident 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewieGriffin Posted July 23, 2015 Author Share Posted July 23, 2015 Apologies for the tldr post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meath_Villan Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Stewie sound like someone wanted you out and was just waiting for this opportunity.....I seen things happen like this in my line of work ...that and the pushing of someone to quit their job ......Its not a nice thing but you have to draw a line in the sand somewhere and forget about it/them or it will start to bring you down in your personal life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewieGriffin Posted July 23, 2015 Author Share Posted July 23, 2015 Yeah, i get that - just want to cause them the inconvenience of me appealing because Im a dick like that. Looking forward to my interview next week, and spending tomorrow job hunting for something not retail based. Any ideas of a good place to start? Office/admin seems a bit to generic of a thing to search for... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Human Resources 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Of course this dismissal leaves you with another problem when you get interviews for a new job. They will inevitably ask what caused you to leave your previous employment and as things stand whatever you tell the people at the interview is going to make you look bad. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Of course this dismissal leaves you with another problem when you get interviews for a new job. They will inevitably ask what caused you to leave your previous employment and as things stand whatever you tell the people at the interview is going to make you look bad. Sometimes a like is inappropriate as I agree with Rev's post rather than like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Could Be Rotterdam Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Of course this dismissal leaves you with another problem when you get interviews for a new job. They will inevitably ask what caused you to leave your previous employment and as things stand whatever you tell the people at the interview is going to make you look bad. Bridget jones got a new job by telling the recruiter she'd been sacked for sleeping with her boss and it got awkward. I know that isn't EXACTLY the same situation, but if movies teach you anything it's never give up...(you might find yourself sliding down a fire station pole right onto a camera on live tv, and if that isn't the dream I don't know what is!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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