ml1dch Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 31 minutes ago, bickster said: Does anybody seriously think Sue Gray was approached for the job before the end of her Partygate Enquiry? The only point of the question is to prove the new JRM / Daily Mail mental gymnastics about the inquiry being a stitch up Otherwise, why does it matter? It doesn't really. Which is why getting themselves in a tizz over it is even sillier. The only way they mess this particular situation up is if they choose to by pointlessly making *this* an issue. Whenever it was, just answer the question, get it out of the way, and the conversation goes back to Boris Johnson and parties again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 6, 2023 Moderator Share Posted March 6, 2023 6 minutes ago, ml1dch said: It doesn't really. Which is why getting themselves in a tizz over it is even sillier. The only way they mess this particular situation up is if they choose to by pointlessly making *this* an issue. Whenever it was, just answer the question, get it out of the way, and the conversation goes back to Boris Johnson and parties again. Yep, absolutely get that. I'm just pointing out what an absolutely idiotic question it is in the first place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted March 6, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted March 6, 2023 I wonder if Richard Sharp got the top bbc job before he got Boris his loan? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted March 8, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted March 8, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted March 8, 2023 Moderator Share Posted March 8, 2023 3 hours ago, Chindie said: It's right that it's illegal to cross and arrive by (small private) boat, ducking immigration control etc. That should remain the case. It kills people, and illegal entry into the country should be just that. What's not right is that refugees and asylum seekers have no option but to do it anyway, as there's currently no way for them to apply from elsewhere (unless from Afghan, HK or Ukraine) and have their cases assessed before undertaking the dangerous, exploitative, people trafficking journeys. So what needs to happen is that whichever Gov't needs to do several things - work with France and the EU to put back in place the agreement about returning rejected case people to where they left the EU. They also need to put in place what they've done for Ukraine, Hong Kong and (should have done but haven't actually done it) Afghanistan - but put it in somewhere in France - so the refugees can apply from there. There are thousands of Albanians, mostly young men being smuggled into the UK - they are not genuine refugees or asylum seekers, they are a mix of victims of criminal activity in Albania and of economic migrants and of criminal gangs. That needs to be stopped. Dunno why Labour and/or others can't put a clearer case for what needs to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted March 8, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted March 8, 2023 They either believe it's a vote winner and are too scared to criticise it, or they actually believe in it. Neither are spectacular endorsements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 They've come back with something better a few hours later - must have done a quick focus group 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted March 8, 2023 Moderator Share Posted March 8, 2023 4 minutes ago, Chindie said: They either believe it's a vote winner and are too scared to criticise it, or they actually believe in it. Neither are spectacular endorsements. Indeed. I think, probably that illegal immigration and asylum/refugee policy is a thing that is really only a vote loser for any party - by that I mean if everything is going swimmingly, then there's no positives to be gained, in terms of votes - it's then just a non-issue for 99.9% of voters. But if there are problems with "the system" then it's a vote loser - people get angry. the Tories are currently in that position of voters being angry about it, and rightly so, because it's a fecking mess. Labour is, I guess, trying to both (rightly) attack the gov't for their incompetence and stupidity on this, but also to not "be a vote loser" - which would come about via any message which is seen by people as "soft" on the problem - and there is a problem - 45000+ people crossed the channel in these people smuggling boats last year, and it'll be nearly double that this year. That's a problem - the risk to life, the crime and so on. A very high percentage of them (60%) are Albanians and around 80% of those are young men about 48% of the total crossings are young Albanian men. They are not likely to be genuine refugees, but they system is incapable of processing the numbers and there's a huge backlog. Meanwhile Taxpayers are forking out for places for these folk to live. Because of the numbers genuine refugees are held up in getting their cases processed and are in a terrible limbo. Mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted March 8, 2023 Moderator Share Posted March 8, 2023 One of the difficulties for the Labour party on this is finding some way to ensure that it isn't the big issue, that it doesn't overshadow the actual things that are wrong in the country. This is an issue that the Tories have a plan on (not an actual plan to solve the problem, a plan on how to use it to excite a certain type of voter*) but it isn't really a big issue compared to the crisis in our economy, healthcare, schools, energy, roads etc etc. The difficult thing for Labour is to be notably and clearly organised and in opposition to the Tories on it - to have an actual plan - but then to stop talking about it, to not add fuel to a fire that the Mail and the Express are likely to be throwing their front pages at for the next several months. There are boats, we'll stop it like this, now let's talk about the NHS shall we Mr Sunak - it'a a difficult thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted March 8, 2023 Moderator Share Posted March 8, 2023 19 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: One of the difficulties for the Labour party on this is finding some way to ensure that it isn't the big issue, that it doesn't overshadow the actual things that are wrong in the country. This is an issue that the Tories have a plan on (not an actual plan to solve the problem, a plan on how to use it to excite a certain type of voter*) but it isn't really a big issue compared to the crisis in our economy, healthcare, schools, energy, roads etc etc. The difficult thing for Labour is to be notably and clearly organised and in opposition to the Tories on it - to have an actual plan - but then to stop talking about it, to not add fuel to a fire that the Mail and the Express are likely to be throwing their front pages at for the next several months. There are boats, we'll stop it like this, now let's talk about the NHS shall we Mr Sunak - it'a a difficult thing to do. I agree with 95% of that, but I don't think it actually harms Labour to have the issue, and the Gov't failures on it in the news, because it's so easy to say "13 years they've had, 40 odd plans and announcements and it's worse. If it's on the front pages of the psycho-rags, that's tories and reform and brexit throbbers reading it, reading how these things are a problem even they can connect that to the guvmint. You're right on the bigger stuff, though, completely. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 From a very experienced ex BBC reporter. Love it when reporters leave the BBC and give their personal opinions - so often telling it as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted March 20, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted March 20, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Chindie said: Isn't this just the thing from six months ago? Or something new? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted March 20, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted March 20, 2023 Just now, ml1dch said: Isn't this just the thing from six months ago? Or something new? Martin Forde has commented on his view of things following his report. It's an addendum really. Still doesn't look good for the party. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted March 20, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted March 20, 2023 12 minutes ago, ml1dch said: Isn't this just the thing from six months ago? Or something new? I should add it's basically focused on Forde's response to the impact of his report. It's critical of Labour insofar as it appears they've not engaged with the report or it's recommendations, despite Starmer's commitment to things like tackling wider racism and the report finding various issues with BAME discrimination, or the report suggesting that the Party should engage with a variety of views on it's training courses when it comes to antisemitism. Its also critical of the media, who didn't engage with the report at all, and particularly of Panorama and the BBC, which Forde alleges tried to force him to alter the report due to their dislike of it's criticism of the documentary (which Forde quite rightly thinks was perfectly accurate and fair criticism where it, for instance, doctored quotes to mislead and includes outright mistruths). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 Chinders, you're ruining it for the people that are trying to rationalise being mugged off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 21, 2023 Moderator Share Posted March 21, 2023 22 hours ago, Chindie said: It's critical of Labour insofar as it appears they've not engaged with the report or it's recommendations That bit isn't true Quote [...] How is the Labour Party responding? The Party has not waited for the publication of the Forde Report to begin the process of culture change. A significant number of changes have already been made to the Party’s operations and culture: We have introduced a new independent complaints process to ensure that all complaints and disciplinary processes are dealt with fairly and impartially. You can find out more here. We have created a Diversity and Inclusion Board, supported by an external expert and chaired by the General Secretary. The Board operates in partnership with workplace unions and staff networks and has a work plan in place to improve the experience of all staff, including those from diverse backgrounds. We have introduced open recruitment for all roles and use new and more diverse networks to advertise roles in order to improve the diversity of our team. We have improved the collection of diversity data among staff to be able to track the diversity of our team and to put in place measures for improvement. In 2021, we agreed and implemented codes on conduct on Islamophobia and on Afrophobia and Anti-Black Racism which set out the minimum code of conduct expected by the Party of all of its members. Further information can be found here. The NEC is already seeking stakeholders’ views on the recommendations put forward by the Forde Report that have not already been addressed by the Party to determine how best to take them forward. The status of those recommendations will be agreed by the NEC in 2023. See the following question for further information on this. Who is on the NEC working group? The NEC working group has 15 members and is made up of 5 members from the NEC, 5 members from CLPs/PLP, and 5 members from affiliates. The Chair of this NEC working group is Carol Sewell and the Vice Chair of this NEC working group is Johanna Baxter. The NEC working group has already scheduled meetings for early 2023. Labour Party - The Forde Report (much more on the link) Forde may not be happy with the response, I've not looked into it and compared the report to the response. But the claim that Labour hasn't engaged with it is demonstrably untrue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 I like this: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 21, 2023 Moderator Share Posted March 21, 2023 46 minutes ago, MakemineVanilla said: I like this: As a comedian, he's good, I always liked him. His politics , however... he's a died in the wool Bootle tankie. The sort of idiot tankie that believes daft conspiracy theories. He even goes into them here. Starmer is a plant of the US/UK intelligence communities based on the fact he knows some of them (no one was mentioned that he knew btw). But given he was DPP, its hardly a shock that he knows people in the intelligence community. But to imagine they planted him in the Labour Party and swept him to power is just a fantasy of mindbending proportions but Alexei apparently believes that. I gave up after that. Great Comedian. Utterly typical indoctrinated Bootle tankie, who peddles paranoid delusions as fact. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 57 minutes ago, bickster said: Great Comedian. Utterly typical indoctrinated Bootle tankie, who peddles paranoid delusions as fact. I was surprised because I thought he'd mellowed. He's obviously turned into his mother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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