The Chairman Mao resembling, Monarchy hating, threat to Britain, Labour Party thread

[magnkarl]

5 minutes ago, Kuwabatake Sanjuro said:

In other news supporting Holocaust denialism isn't a problem for labour these days.

 

Considering the tweet is 14 hours old, I presume the steps will be taken to discipline said person.

[Jareth]

3 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

Considering the left of Labour did exactly this all over the country when they didn't let many centre-Labour candidates stand, it's a bit rich this.

So those examples of the lefty purge are?

And would you be happy to have people like Rabbi David Mason blocked from standing in Muswell Hill, because he wasn't compliant with Keir Starmer's strategy?

Edited March 24, 2023 by Jareth

[blandy]

1 minute ago, Jareth said:

I'll do it again. What if Muswell Hill Labour were prevented from selecting 60% of candidates and instead had Labour NEC impose candidates? Is that ok?

That could be seen, as I said, either “as party hq getting a grip or party hq control freakery depending on your outlook”. I’m not a member of any party, I don’t really care how they choose their candidates. Clearly sometimes it’s best to have things controlled locally, but at other times its necessary to have central hq take more of a role. What I was responding to was your posts which seemed hyperbolic around this situation in Leicester. “Labour does not represent BAME communities - and that's a whole load of crap” and then telling another poster they were suffering from white privilege. None of us know the reason why the people were deselected. None of us know the ethnicity of their replacements. We do know Leicester is Labour controlled, that the majority of Labour councillors there are non white. Jumping straight to racism as a reason seems a stretch to me.

[magnkarl]

10 minutes ago, Jareth said:

So those examples of the lefty purge are?

Let's see, off the top of my head. Joan Ryan, Frank Field and Gavin Shuker were all outed in the same way you seem to be suggesting is a purge or whatever now. Then there's the cases of people being hounded out of the party by people banging pots outside their house for weeks on end, y' know. But sure, it's only the centre that removes outer left candidates..

If you think that this way of running the labour party is unique to the current leadership you should really read up a bit on what happened in i.e 2018 when momentum hijacked plenty of seats doing exactly the same thing. But I presume it's only unfair when it's happening to the same candidates that were often shoehorned into these positions by the then leadership after the positions were acquired in the same way you're now arguing against.

Edited March 24, 2023 by magnkarl

[Jareth]

1 minute ago, blandy said:

That could be seen, as I said, either “as party hq getting a grip or party hq control freakery depending on your outlook”. I’m not a member of any party, I don’t really care how they choose their candidates. Clearly sometimes it’s best to have things controlled locally, but at other times its necessary to have central hq take more of a role. What I was responding to was your posts which seemed hyperbolic around this situation in Leicester. “

Labour does not represent BAME communities - and that's a whole load of crap” and then telling another poster they were suffering from white privilege. None of us know the reason why the people were deselected. None of us know the ethnicity of their replacements. We do know Leicester is Labour controlled, that the majority of Labour councillors there are non white. Jumping straight to racism as a reason seems a stretch to me.

Not attacking you in this - but 60% of a minority being blocked from standing for their local community, in which they have been previously voted in, by that community, regardless of their political leanings, is a terrible look. Especially in the aftermath of Labour ignoring the Forde report which states there is a hierarchy of racism in the Labour party. I had got used to Forde's findings being ignored, but what is happening in Leicester is just a naked power play, which understands that BAME communities are not important enough generally for there to be any national outrage. It's a tory strategy.

[blandy]

17 minutes ago, Kuwabatake Sanjuro said:

In other news supporting Holocaust denialism isn't a problem for labour these days.

What?  What am I missing there.  It looks like another tedious trans squabble. I don’t see the holocaust denial anywhere.

[Jareth]

6 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

Let's see, off the top of my head. Joan Ryan, Frank Field and Gavin Shuker were all outed in the same way you seem to be suggesting is a purge or whatever now. Then there's the cases of people being hounded out of the party by people banging pots outside their house for weeks on end, y' know. But sure, it's only the centre that removes outer left candidates..

So Field went to the Lords, the other two set up a new political party. They were all white. The bias is strong mate. 

[magnkarl]

3 minutes ago, blandy said:

What?  What am I missing there.  It looks like another tedious trans squabble. I don’t see the holocaust denial anywhere.

Yeah, looking at the thread I don't really find anything of the sort. Though the picture is distasteful, it's not exactly denying that the holocaust happened. Like most stuff on the internet it's full of trolls saying stupid things.

[magnkarl]

2 minutes ago, Jareth said:

So Field went to the Lords, the other two set up a new political party. They were all white. The bias is strong mate. 

What? You wanted examples?

Throwing the racist card around is just a really bad tactic in any discussion. You got three examples of people who had their positions blocked. You don't like the colour of the examples? What they did after they lost their positions is another matter, just like it is for Corbyn when he starts the 'Allotments for all party' or whatever.

Edited March 24, 2023 by magnkarl

[Jareth]

Just now, magnkarl said:

Throwing the racist card around is just a really bad tactic in any discussion. 

Forgive me if I choke to death laughing about the overplaying of the racist card. Meanwhile, in reality, 60% of BAME councillors in Leicester have been prevented from standing again. You yourself have no track record for criticising right wing governments unless they have larger melons - and this is basically Britain right now. 

[bickster]

7 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

Yeah, looking at the thread I don't really find anything of the sort. Though the picture is distasteful, it's not exactly denying that the holocaust happened. Like most stuff on the internet it's full of trolls saying stupid things.

Graham Lineham - instant alarm bell with the emphasis on bell

[bickster]

3 minutes ago, Jareth said:

in reality, 60% of BAME councillors in Leicester have been prevented from standing again

No they haven't this is not true, many of them are still standing. Just not for Labour

This appears to be about wanting to abolish the directly elected mayoral position. Similar happened in Liverpool when the short list of candidates for the Labour Ticket all wanted to abolish the position.

Starmer appears to want to keep directly elected Mayors. This is about policy

[magnkarl]

3 minutes ago, Jareth said:

Forgive me if I choke to death laughing about the overplaying of the racist card. Meanwhile, in reality, 60% of BAME councillors in Leicester have been prevented from standing again. You yourself have no track record for criticising right wing governments unless they have larger melons - and this is basically Britain right now. 

I'm sure you'll find plenty of posts in my history criticizing the tories, MAGA, Trump, Orban or whatever government qualifying as right wing to you. You've attacked two posters today with claims of racism with absolutely nothing backing it up except for projection. You seem to think that the current leadership is the only leadership that's in some way hindered candidates from standing. It's not at all true.

[blandy]

Just now, Jareth said:

Not attacking you in this - but 60% of a minority being blocked from standing for their local community, in which they have been previously voted in, by that community, regardless of their political leanings, is a terrible look. Especially in the aftermath of Labour ignoring the Forde report which states there is a hierarchy of racism in the Labour party. I had got used to Forde's findings being ignored, but what is happening in Leicester is just a naked power play, which understands that BAME communities are not important enough generally for there to be any national outrage. It's a tory strategy.

In Leicester 19 labour councillors have been told they can’t stand again for labour, by party h.q. 15 of those 19 are non white, 4 are white. The remaining 30 odd Labour councillors can stand again. They are also mostly non white. Leicester as a city is mostly non white. The replacements will be mostly non white, I would wager. I don’t see that the Leicester situation is about racism or any kind of race hierarchy or view that BAME communities are not important. I don’t see that holding a view that those deselected was because they are “trots” demonstrates “white privilege”.

But mostly, I don’t care. I’m not a labour member. For ever, basically whichever lot were in control of labour hq used that control to select and deselect favoured and unfavoured people. Factionalism has always been a problem.

[bickster]

14 minutes ago, Jareth said:

So Field went to the Lords

Had Field not resigned the Labour Whip, he would have been deselected by his local party. Quite rightly too, he was a Tory in the wrong party as his voting history after resigning the whip clearly showed.

[Jareth]

1 minute ago, bickster said:

No they haven't this is not true, many of them are still standing. Just not for Labour

This appears to be about wanting to abolish the directly elected mayoral position. Similar happened in Liverpool when the short list of candidates for the Labour Ticket all wanted to abolish the position.

Starmer appears to want to keep directly elected Mayors. This is about policy

Got it - they're wrong, they've misunderstood why they are being blocked, that's their problem - it's all about policy - their human rights are intact because they can leave Labour and just go somewhere else. That would be preferable. Let's do the same in Muswell Hill - and then use that as the justification. Mate your reasoning is sounding "iffy". 

[Jareth]

2 minutes ago, blandy said:

Factionalism has always been a problem.

I think that is the centre of my gripe. Factionalism is the issue and it hasn't been addressed, if anything it is now rampant. I attack the Leicester situation because 3 years ago, in a Jewish area, it would have been a stick to beat the leadership with - when the current leadership has done nothing to address the factionalism then it's fair game IMHO to call out these events when they happen. It is magnified by the fact that Labour are probably going to be in power soon - yet it's more of the same in so many ways. It's very frustrating all round. 

[blandy]

1 minute ago, Jareth said:

I think that is the centre of my gripe. Factionalism is the issue and it hasn't been addressed, if anything it is now rampant. I attack the Leicester situation because 3 years ago, in a Jewish area, it would have been a stick to beat the leadership with - when the current leadership has done nothing to address the factionalism then it's fair game IMHO to call out these events when they happen. It is magnified by the fact that Labour are probably going to be in power soon - yet it's more of the same in so many ways. It's very frustrating all round. 

Leicester and the community there has been very factional recently. There was all that violence and stuff between Muslims and Hindus over allegations, quite possibly untrue ones, about a mosque and its Imam. I wonder if that, or the fallout and comment around that is partly behind some of this?  

Your comment that you  “attack the Leicester situation because 3 years ago, in a Jewish area, it would have been a stick to beat the leadership with” is amusing.

[Jareth]

16 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

You've attacked two posters today with claims of racism with absolutely nothing backing it up except for projection. 

God that's hard to take isn't it - being accused of racism? Tell you what, it's harder to be disadvantaged and discriminated against because of racism. 

[Jareth]

1 minute ago, blandy said:

Leicester and the community there has been very factional recently.

There was all that violence and stuff between Muslims and Hindus over allegations

Which is traditionally a Leicester problem?

And if the whole thing was transplanted to an affluent area like, North London, and boy am I being careful here not to fall into a trope - but Muswell Hill is a beautiful area, then that's amusing? Probably, because it would not happen there, would it?