Chindie Posted February 7, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted February 7, 2021 Knives are out for Starmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 4 hours ago, Chindie said: Knives are out for Starmer. By who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted February 7, 2021 Moderator Share Posted February 7, 2021 15 minutes ago, Risso said: By who? Tankies and angry tramps 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted February 7, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted February 7, 2021 42 minutes ago, Risso said: By who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted February 7, 2021 Author Share Posted February 7, 2021 Thats nonsense to me. Starmer i think is doing a good job so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 I'd get behind this. Got to be better than the current weathervane 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted February 7, 2021 Moderator Share Posted February 7, 2021 32 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Thats nonsense to me. Starmer i think is doing a good job so far I think it's nonsense at the moment too - I can't see there being a real pressure on him to be replaced until he's at least had a chance to put out some policies - but the pressure is largely coming from his own failure to offer up anything tangible that he actually seems to believe in- "Starmerism" is a complete mystery and there's been no real presence. At the moment he's a PR disaster, he makes John Major look like Liberace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 10 minutes ago, darrenm said: I'd get behind this. Got to be better than the current weathervane Surely Starmer has to lose a couple of general elections before his success or failure can be measured. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 Who can tell Boris Johnson from Kier Starmer? Literally everyone? Are we forgetting how many times Starmer has argued for something, been ridiculed, then the government has done just that weeks, or even days later? And Starmer is the weathervane? I like Burnham, and he'd be a fine candidate one day, but it'd be the height of absurdity to try to oust Starmer in less than a year. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 1 minute ago, Seat68 said: Surely Starmer has to lose a couple of general elections before his success or failure can be measured. Yep, fair's fair. We're all just waiting for an opposition in the meantime until the inevitable where he loses a GE and fails to make up any ground at the locals. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted February 7, 2021 Moderator Share Posted February 7, 2021 3 minutes ago, darrenm said: I'd get behind this. Got to be better than the current weathervane I find it strange that people on the left want to change the leader already and based on a few weeks since Xmas too. Before Xmas Starmer was leading the government by the nose into every step they took. The Government have currently got the vaccination programme going well, what do you expect Starmer to do in those circumstances, criticise it? It's beyond fickle, he hasn't had a chance to do anything policywise yet, nor have we even had a round of council elections It's the political equivalent of complaining about a football manager when he doesn't make the substituion you want There isn't an election for years yet, he's getting to be in the right place in the polls, his approval rating is higher than the previous leader ever was You appear to be setting a bar that is too high to succeed. As for Burnham, I think his refusing to put Greater Manchester into lockdown when needed cost lives and increased the length of the lockdown they were in. His mate Rotherham on the other hand, did put Merseyside into lockdown at that time and also got the mass testing trial off the government as a result. Merseyside came out of lockdown much earlier as a result. I know he was trying to do the right thing but it was the wrong call to play with peoples lives like that 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 1 minute ago, Davkaus said: Who can tell Boris Johnson from Kier Starmer? Literally everyone? Are we forgetting how many times Starmer has argued for something, been ridiculed, then the government has done just that weeks, or even days later? And Starmer is the weathervane? I like Burnham, and he'd be a fine candidate one day, but it'd be the height of absurdity to try to oust Starmer in less than a year. It hasn't really worked like that. He's waited until the very last moment until obvious that Johnson will be doing it the next day. The stuff he needed to speak out about he hasn't. And he pushed for the schools to reopen when it was very much the wrong thing to do COVID wise. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 1 minute ago, darrenm said: Yep, fair's fair. We're all just waiting for an opposition in the meantime until the inevitable where he loses a GE and fails to make up any ground at the locals. He's looked like the only adult in the room a number of times and embarrassed the government by calling out the blindingly obvious that they refuse to do. What more do you expect from him in opposition when his predecessor granted the tories an 80 seat majority? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 7 minutes ago, darrenm said: I'd get behind this. Got to be better than the current weathervane I have been really impressed with Burnham in his role as Greater Manchester Mayor especially over the last year when he has consistently called the government out over lack of funds especially for those who work in hospitality affected by the tiering system. Starmer will get to fight an election though but if he loses that he'll be out and you'd have to think Burnham would be in the running. It won't happen in terms of getting to lead the party again but I am always impressed by Ed Miliband be it in the commons in his role as Business Secretary or in interviews. I think we'd have all taken chaos under him rather than the shit show we have seen since the 2015 election. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted February 7, 2021 Moderator Share Posted February 7, 2021 1 minute ago, Davkaus said: Are we forgetting how many times Starmer has argued for something, been ridiculed, then the government has done just that weeks, or even days later? And Starmer is the weathervane? Yes. Yes we are. And we're forgetting because Starmer never ever makes anything of it. The government has a stupid idea, then Starmer has a better idea, then the government carries out that idea, then Starmer says that the government are doing the right thing and he wants to work with them on carrying it out, then the papers say 'Even Starmer says Boris is dong the right thing' and then Boris escapes any form of criticism. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 1 minute ago, darrenm said: Yep, fair's fair. We're all just waiting for an opposition in the meantime until the inevitable where he loses a GE and fails to make up any ground at the locals. I think thats fair and I don’t want to go over old ground as it gets neither of us anywhere but one GE will be the measure. A lot of people, such as me to a degree didn’t vote Labour largely because of Corbyn, I voted but only as I had to. If Starmer doesnt make an impact, not necessarily win, but claw back some significant support then the members may get even more twitchy than they already are. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 2 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: Yes. Yes we are. And we're forgetting because Starmer never ever makes anything of it. The government has a stupid idea, then Starmer has a better idea, then the government carries out that idea, then Starmer says that the government are doing the right thing and he wants to work with them on carrying it out, then the papers say 'Even Starmer says Boris is dong the right thing' and then Boris escapes any form of criticism. Yeah I agree with this, they should be making far more of their wins and repeating the examples time and time again every time the government u turns. There's certainly room for improvement. I do think it's a particularly difficult time to be the opposition because there's always the lingering problem of being seen to be "playing politics" during a national crisis. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, darrenm said: It hasn't really worked like that. He's waited until the very last moment until obvious that Johnson will be doing it the next day. The stuff he needed to speak out about he hasn't. And he pushed for the schools to reopen when it was very much the wrong thing to do COVID wise. Agreed with you that schools were a mistake. I don't agree all of it was "next day" though, he was calling for the Christmas relaxations to be cancelled a good week or so before they were, in fact Johnson was mocking him and accusing Starmer of wanting to "cancel Christmas" a few days before yet another embarrassing U Turn. I do think though that he's been too keen to want to be seen working with the government and not undermine the covid effort when there has needed to be much stronger scrutiny and condemnation, particularly around some of the spending scandals. All he can do is condemn and try to look good by dissociation though. There's next to no chance of defeating the government on anything this side of a GE. Edited February 7, 2021 by Davkaus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted February 7, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted February 7, 2021 Corbyn had his own victories as well. Wasn't enough. Won't be for Starmer either. Not a surprise really that nobody wants to vote for a party absolutely riddled, to the very core, with anti-Semites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 29 minutes ago, bickster said: I find it strange that people on the left want to change the leader already and based on a few weeks since Xmas too. Before Xmas Starmer was leading the government by the nose into every step they took. The Government have currently got the vaccination programme going well, what do you expect Starmer to do in those circumstances, criticise it? It's beyond fickle, he hasn't had a chance to do anything policywise yet, nor have we even had a round of council elections It's the political equivalent of complaining about a football manager when he doesn't make the substituion you want There isn't an election for years yet, he's getting to be in the right place in the polls, his approval rating is higher than the previous leader ever was You appear to be setting a bar that is too high to succeed. As for Burnham, I think his refusing to put Greater Manchester into lockdown when needed cost lives and increased the length of the lockdown they were in. His mate Rotherham on the other hand, did put Merseyside into lockdown at that time and also got the mass testing trial off the government as a result. Merseyside came out of lockdown much earlier as a result. I know he was trying to do the right thing but it was the wrong call to play with peoples lives like that I assume as you're replying to me, you're including me as 'on the left'? Because I don't consider myself left wing. I've always been centrist. I just agreed with a lot of what Corbyn said because most of it was basic common sense. Anyway, by the by. I think I've said my reasons for disliking Starmer before. It's a combination of anger at him for covering up the truth of what happened with the factional fight 2015-2019 when it all needed to come out, anger for his marginalisation of the Jewish left and despondence at his lack of anything to say which isn't agreeing with Johnson. I know the strategy and I think it's doomed. But it's not my fight. I'm not in the party. All I can do is pass comment and give my opinion the same as anyone else. I won't be a wrecker because that'd make me a hypocrite when I criticised others for unfairly attacking Corbyn when the only alternative was the Tories. I backed him for leader because I thought he'd be in the middle of the 2 factions and then be the media friendly face of the Corbyn type progressive policies. When it gets to a GE I'll look at the policies and make my decision there. I'm just not a fan any more. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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