Popular Post chrisp65 Posted February 8, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted February 8, 2021 22 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: LTNs are an excellent initiative, and so is the ULEZ. Pollution ends thousands of lives per year earlier than they would otherwise end. Wouldn’t lots of these people have died anyway, eventually? 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted February 8, 2021 Author Share Posted February 8, 2021 1 hour ago, ml1dch said: Khan is currently a best priced 1/10, and in some places 1/18 to win. So in electoral terms it's pretty safe to say that they don't. Lets wait and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted February 8, 2021 Author Share Posted February 8, 2021 48 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: LTNs are an excellent initiative, and so is the ULEZ. Pollution ends thousands of lives per year earlier than they would otherwise end. No they are not. LTNS benefit the few and cause misery for so many. Your just pushing the traffic onto the main road and the pollution is even worse because of it. Go have alot and at enfield and the residents anger for the LTNS. Its a complete waste of money. The most stupidest thing they have done. And thats not to mention how. dangerous.LTNs block ambulances and fire trucks from gettin to emergencies becauee you have stupid things to blocking thw side streets. As for ULEZ its a money making scheme nothing more. Every time i see my vulnerable gran i have to pay £15 for the privilege to do so. Write to your local mp and ask them to put LTNS and ULEZ near your area and see if you think its still think its a good idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted February 8, 2021 Moderator Share Posted February 8, 2021 1 minute ago, Demitri_C said: No they are not. LTNS benefit the few and cause misery for so many. Your just pushing the traffic onto the main road and the pollution is even worse because of it. Go have alot and at enfield and the residents anger for the LTNS. Its a complete waste of money. The most stupidest thing they have done. And thats not to mention how. dangerous.LTNs block ambulances and fire trucks from gettin to emergencies becauee you have stupid things to blocking thw side streets. Again, the rest of Britain have been coping with this since..... forever. You'll get used to it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted February 8, 2021 Author Share Posted February 8, 2021 Just now, bickster said: Again, the rest of Britain have been coping with this since..... forever. You'll get used to it Where are LTNS and ulez in the rest of Britain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted February 8, 2021 Moderator Share Posted February 8, 2021 2 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Where are LTNS and ulez in the rest of Britain? What you are describing as an LTN has been going on all over Britain for a very long time. They just don't call them an LTN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 14 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: No they are not. LTNS benefit the few and cause misery for so many. On the contrary, poorer people are less likely to own a car (especially in London), but still suffer from pollution and noise from traffic, so they experience more benefit and less cost than car-owners. 16 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Your just pushing the traffic onto the main road and the pollution is even worse because of it. One of the purposes of LTNs is to disincentivise car use and nudge people to take other forms of transport, ie the aim is not to 'push traffic onto the main road' but to encourage you to leave the car at home. 20 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Go have alot and at enfield and the residents anger for the LTNS. I'm well aware of the sort of toxic idiots I can find on residents associations Facebook pages. 21 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: LTNs block ambulances and fire trucks from gettin to emergencies becauee you have stupid things to blocking thw side streets. They do need to be carefully designed so as to avoid this problem, I agree, and some examples have not been. Retractable bollards are a much better solution than planters for this reason, and camera-enforced signs are even better still. But a] the emergency services have basically not complained about LTNs, and b] the thing that slows emergency service vehicles down most is traffic on the streets, which is why they are generally in favour of traffic calming measures and disincentivising car use in London. 24 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Write to your local mp and ask them to put LTNS and ULEZ near your area and see if you think its still think its a good idea I would be absolutely happy for both of these things. I live on a rat run, and would prefer it if it was not a through-road, even if I had to drive slightly further around the block. Less traffic would make it safer for me to cross the road with my dog. I would also welcome a low emissions zone; I'm planning to buy an electric car in the near future and it would probably be a useful nudge to make a purchase I plan to make anyway, though the rules would have to actually be tighter than they are for the ULEZ - my 11 year old Fiesta meets the ULEZ standards currently. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted February 8, 2021 Moderator Share Posted February 8, 2021 1 minute ago, HanoiVillan said: Retractable bollards are a much better solution Oh they really aren't. We have them on a couple of roads in the city centre and they still don't come down for the emergency services most of the time LTNs are great, they increase taxi fares and I remain unconvinced that they reduce pollution by making car journeys longer. (which is one of their justifications) They certainly don't push people onto PT here because PT is so f***ing dreadful, for most without a car, it just increases taxi journey time and price.... if you think I'm kidding about this last point I'm not. Prepandemic we were doing around 11 million taxi journeys a year with about a 25% market share 40 million taxi journeys in the LCR is a LOT of journeys per person Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post OutByEaster? Posted February 8, 2021 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted February 8, 2021 2 hours ago, Demitri_C said: As you dont live in london and experience it day in day out. Do you pay for tfl annualy by any chance? Yes. I and every other taxpayer in the country pays to support London's public transport systems at the expense of those in the rest of the country - we pay so that London can have better transport than we have where we live - it's one of the things that makes us a little grumpy when Londoners whinge about it. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 2 minutes ago, bickster said: LTNs are great, they increase taxi fares and I remain unconvinced that they reduce pollution by making car journeys longer. (which is one of their justifications) They certainly don't push people onto PT here because PT is so f***ing dreadful, for most without a car, it just increases taxi journey time and price.... Of course outside of London they have to be accompanied my large investment in public transport infrastructure to be particularly effective. Cycling and public transport needs to be a realistic alternative. Since London has some of the best public transport provision in the world, that's not really a concern for them (not that it stops them whinging, obviously). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted February 8, 2021 Author Share Posted February 8, 2021 1 minute ago, OutByEaster? said: Yes. I and every other taxpayer in the country pays to support London's public transport systems at the expense of those in the rest of the country - we pay so that London can have better transport than we have where we live - it's one of the things that makes us a little grumpy when Londoners whinge about it. Thats like me saying im unhappy my tax goes to a hospital up north and me complaining that your unhappy with the service provided at your hospital mate. We pay to use the service daily, weekly annually etc and the cost is very expensive. The cost of living in london is ridiculous dont know why that doesnt get a mention. But dint want tk turn this into yet another vs north debate which isnt the intention. This threads gone way off subject @HanoiVillan will reply to your post a bit later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted February 8, 2021 Author Share Posted February 8, 2021 23 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: On the contrary, poorer people are less likely to own a car (especially in London), but still suffer from pollution and noise from traffic, so they experience more benefit and less cost than car-owners. One of the purposes of LTNs is to disincentivise car use and nudge people to take other forms of transport, ie the aim is not to 'push traffic onto the main road' but to encourage you to leave the car at home. That's all good saying that if there transport means for people. What about people like mothers/fathers who are taking their kids to school? They are no exactly going to find taking the bus or even worse riding a bike helpful are they? They should have done lengthily consultations and seen what residents had to say. (by the way most people opposed them and they ignored it anyway) 23 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: I'm well aware of the sort of toxic idiots I can find on residents associations Facebook pages. Why are they idiots because you don't agree with them? 23 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: I would be absolutely happy for both of these things. I live on a rat run, and would prefer it if it was not a through-road, even if I had to drive slightly further around the block. Less traffic would make it safer for me to cross the road with my dog. I would also welcome a low emissions zone; I'm planning to buy an electric car in the near future and it would probably be a useful nudge to make a purchase I plan to make anyway, though the rules would have to actually be tighter than they are for the ULEZ - my 11 year old Fiesta meets the ULEZ standards currently. Its easy to say your in favour of them, but lets say that your right and it decreases traffic on your road. You get to the end of your road turn to the main road and bam your stuck in 40 minutes traffic (like the area I live in now since they implemented LTNs) when prior it would take less than half that time. Then you think oh I will turn off on the side street you get round and bam your on another LTN road (oh and you get a nice fine for going on the road due to poor signage) Its easy to say oh its great idea but until you actually live in it you don't realise how shit these things are. They don't reduce cars on the road, they don't decrease traffic and they definitely don't reduce pollution. If you want to reduce cars on the road then put the age limit for young drivers up or limit the amount of cars each household can have. You can always move down here and if you have to pass a ULEZ route daily and pay £15 I bet you wont be in favour of it! On your point about emergency services there has been various complaints locally that emergency services have had difficulty getting through to residents on time because of the volume of traffic and the closures of roads. the ballads I agree with you, poorly designed. But when your having police saying they were not consulted when LTNS were implemented that speaks volumes. We have gone from Starmer to Sadiq Khan To TFL to now LTNS! All I said is I didn't want Khan as labour leader then we have gone to this ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted February 8, 2021 Moderator Share Posted February 8, 2021 33 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: and the cost is very expensive It isn't. You need to understand this Dem. Your Public Transport is cheaper than anyone else's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bickster Posted February 8, 2021 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted February 8, 2021 23 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Why are they idiots because you don't agree with them? Here's some groupings of words; Residents Association Parish Councillors Nosey Neighbours Neighbourhood Watch Nimby Words Removed Taxpayers Alliance The venn diagram of that lot is pretty much one circle 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Davkaus Posted February 8, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted February 8, 2021 I do enjoy this conversation every time it plays out every couple of months, where a Londoner complains about things that are much better than what other people have. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted February 8, 2021 Author Share Posted February 8, 2021 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Davkaus said: I do enjoy this conversation every time it plays out every couple of months, where a Londoner complains about things that are much better than what other people have. I really do think posts like this are just singling me out. You get a kick out of it? Whatever rocks your boat Sad really Edited February 8, 2021 by Demitri_C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted February 8, 2021 Moderator Share Posted February 8, 2021 Just now, Demitri_C said: I really do think posts like this are just singling me out. You get a kick out of it? Sad really Are you the only Londoner in the village? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted February 8, 2021 Author Share Posted February 8, 2021 Just now, bickster said: Are you the only Londoner in the village? Seems like it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted February 8, 2021 Moderator Share Posted February 8, 2021 11 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Seems like it You definitely are not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted February 8, 2021 Author Share Posted February 8, 2021 Cant see many other londons he is referring to in this post and has suggested a post like this in the past with another debate? Its just a windup post really but whatever turns him on wont let change my opinion or stop me engaging in a debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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