Popular Post veloman Posted May 7, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted May 7, 2017 6 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: Hell, there's probably a very large chunk of the population who don't know that Marx, Lenin and Stalin were different people alive at different times. No, that is ridiculous; everyone knows Lenin was one of the Beatles. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dAVe80 Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 57 minutes ago, veloman said: No, that is ridiculous; everyone knows Lenin was one of the Beatles. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 9 hours ago, Awol said: He can't say that because it's not true - 7:15 ...Just before he said he'd waited his entire life for the 07/08 financial crisis. I'm not making any judgement on his arguments and views, simply saying he's on record (and video) about believing in being honest that he's a Marxist. From a purely electoral point of view the Tories are going to make hay with that - presumably. Before I watched the video I was very much of the opinion that Marr had treated him unfairly but out of his own mouth he says that he has dreamt of the crisis that would break the system and allow him and cohorts to take power. This scenario would definitely involve much suffering and violence and it is clear he is a totally irresponsible nutcase who cannot be trusted to get anywhere near the levers of power. He is absolutely no friend of the poor he just sees their suffering as a means to his own empowerment. I thought he had been misrepresented by the media but he is worse than I ever imagined. But there will still be people who will continue to recommend others to vote Labour. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post darrenm Posted May 7, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted May 7, 2017 1 hour ago, MakemineVanilla said: Before I watched the video I was very much of the opinion that Marr had treated him unfairly but out of his own mouth he says that he has dreamt of the crisis that would break the system and allow him and cohorts to take power. This scenario would definitely involve much suffering and violence and it is clear he is a totally irresponsible nutcase who cannot be trusted to get anywhere near the levers of power. He is absolutely no friend of the poor he just sees their suffering as a means to his own empowerment. I thought he had been misrepresented by the media but he is worse than I ever imagined. But there will still be people who will continue to recommend others to vote Labour. It's interesting. I hadn't watched the video so just have and he doesn't say the things either you or AWOL have said he did. He says "I'll be honest, I'm a Marxist ... I've been waiting for this [financial crisis] for a generation" meaning he's been anticipating it happening, not that he wants it to happen. To read anything more into it is pure projection. The rest of your post is just pure hyperbole. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 2 hours ago, dAVe80 said: Coo coo cachoo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 2 hours ago, MakemineVanilla said: But there will still be people who will continue to recommend others to vote Labour. As one of those people, I find your tone here highly irritating. It's not a **** criminal act mate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 12 hours ago, darrenm said: It's interesting. I hadn't watched the video so just have and he doesn't say the things either you or AWOL have said he did. He says "I'll be honest, I'm a Marxist ... I've been waiting for this [financial crisis] for a generation" meaning he's been anticipating it happening, not that he wants it to happen. To read anything more into it is pure projection. The rest of your post is just pure hyperbole. He says around 7 minutes in that he is a Marxist and that the present economic downturn (2013) offers an opportunity because it is a classical 'crisis in capitalism' (which Marx predicted would bring about revolution), which he had been waiting for for a decade, and then says 'For Christ's sake don't waste it'. It is pretty clear what he meant. And knowing that he wants to destroy capitalism we are told to vote him in as the next Chancellor of Exchequer. Yeah, right! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaglint Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 (edited) Few things here MNV. 1 - lots of politicians have aspirations whilst at the same time being bound by what is achievable. I think even were Labour to get in to power they would struggle to "destroy" capitalism either globally or in this country. He may well want to rebalance it much further to the left but that is not the same. 2 - There are plenty of examples of Conservative politicians saying the same about destroying the NHS but again it isn't achievable at least in the short term so they don't campaign on it and do it in a much more underhand way. Probably using similar phrases like rebalancing towards the private sector. You talk as though Labour voters are mad but the damned thing about politics is if by implication you vote Tory I am sure they look at you and think the same thing. Edited May 8, 2017 by villaglint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 17 hours ago, darrenm said: "I think public ownership of things essential to our success is a good idea, wouldn't you agree?" He could have also spoke about the trains as an example of how things go if it's run for profit. A disaster for everyone who uses it that benefits the shareholders etc. You would think that with an election and so much riding on it that even a 5 minute practice of some of the possible questions would have been beneficial, I wonder how they even got a job in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 27 minutes ago, villaglint said: Few things here MNV. 1 - lots of politicians have aspirations whilst at the same time being bound by what is achievable. I think even were Labour to get in to power they would struggle to "destroy" capitalism either globally or in this country. He may well want to rebalance it much further to the left but that is not the same. 2 - There are plenty of examples of Conservative politicians saying the same about destroying the NHS but again it isn't achievable at least in the short term so they don't campaign on it and do it in a much more underhand way. Probably using similar phrases like rebalancing towards the private sector. You talk as though Labour voters are mad but the damned thing about politics is if by implication you vote Tory I am sure they look at you and think the same thing. I have never voted Tory and criticising Trots like McDonnell doesn't mean I don't have a rough idea of a Labour Party, I would feel happy to vote for. McDonnell was recommending extra-parliamentary direct action, and a Marxist solution of a centrally planned economy based on need not profit, and enforced equality of outcome. Comparisons between a Tory being caught recommending the privatisation of the NHS are just not on the same scale as inciting the destruction of the capitalist system. The equivalent for a Tory would be being heard to recommend a fascist regime based on tradition, ethnic and cultural purity and social stability. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaglint Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 37 minutes ago, MakemineVanilla said: I have never voted Tory and criticising Trots like McDonnell doesn't mean I don't have a rough idea of a Labour Party, I would feel happy to vote for. McDonnell was recommending extra-parliamentary direct action, and a Marxist solution of a centrally planned economy based on need not profit, and enforced equality of outcome. Comparisons between a Tory being caught recommending the privatisation of the NHS are just not on the same scale as inciting the destruction of the capitalist system. The equivalent for a Tory would be being heard to recommend a fascist regime based on tradition, ethnic and cultural purity and social stability. I haven't been able to watch the video so just going off other people's gists. Sorry for wrongly insinuating you were a Tory, absolutely you can be a Labour supporter who doesn't support "this" Labour. From a personal perspective I've a lot of time for Marx without being a Communist. I think there is much to be admired in his work and I suspect as we (hopefully) continue to progress our civilisation parts of his ideals will bear more fruit than they do now. The comparison with the Tories was just that a comparison. Not saying they are the same order of magnitude but just to make the point that a politician can hold an aspiration while never realising it or even campaigning for it. I still think that true as it does not rest on the issue at hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted May 8, 2017 Moderator Share Posted May 8, 2017 14 hours ago, darrenm said: He says "I'll be honest, I'm a Marxist ... I've been waiting for this [financial crisis] for a generation" meaning he's been anticipating it happening, not that he wants it to happen. To read anything more into it is pure projection. I've been waiting for Villa to win the league for 36 years. Of course that doesn't mean I want it to happen....to read anything else into my statement is pure projection... (unless you include my lifelong recorded and evident support for Villa and the relish in my voice as I talk about it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PompeyVillan Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 Jeremy Corbyn is in Worcester today. Worcestershire should be a shoe-in for Labour given how disgusting the state of the NHS in the county. It's heartening to see Labour make a play in Worcestershire, I'm in mid Worcestershire, retirement central where the elderly vote for any old Tory stuge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted May 8, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted May 8, 2017 My impression of Worcestershire is such that I expect many residents would sweep the doorstep after Corbyn stepped off it, lest any leftist sentiment snuck it's way into the property. I've not seen a thing from any party by me. Labour could put forward a broom with a red rosette and it'd win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 17 minutes ago, PompeyVillan said: Jeremy Corbyn is in Worcester today. Worcestershire should be a shoe-in for Labour given how disgusting the state of the NHS in the county. It's heartening to see Labour make a play in Worcestershire, I'm in mid Worcestershire, retirement central where the elderly vote for any old Tory stuge. Shame I didn't know, I would've gone along. I'm only 5 mins from the Royal Worcester. 12 minutes ago, Chindie said: My impression of Worcestershire is such that I expect many residents would sweep the doorstep after Corbyn stepped off it, lest any leftist sentiment snuck it's way into the property. I've not seen a thing from any party by me. Labour could put forward a broom with a red rosette and it'd win. Correct. It's horrific. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaglint Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 Yes equally not so much a shred of paper from any party for me either. Get the impression resources are being used very carefully. I'm in a very very safe Tory seat in Bournemouth. The town will be in the sea before it changes hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 Labour in particular are very very strapped for cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 Could someone please define what this Capitalist system that is so dear to our hearts actually is? and then I suggest comparing it to what actually exists in modern day Britannia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post chrisp65 Posted May 8, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted May 8, 2017 3 minutes ago, villakram said: Could someone please define what this Capitalist system that is so dear to our hearts actually is? and then I suggest comparing it to what actually exists in modern day Britannia. Easy. Capitalism is where banks make profits and are allowed to be 'clever' with the tax they pay. It's not worth upsetting them, in case they leave the country. Then, if there's a banking crisis, the state bails them out. Once they begin to recover, the state then has to offer them 'incentives' to stay based in London and not move to Frankfurt. Capitalism. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 What utterly contemptible bastards these Labor marxists are... free the banks, free the banks! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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