The Chairman Mao resembling, Monarchy hating, threat to Britain, Labour Party thread

[blandy]

Just now, itdoesntmatterwhatthissay said:

I hope you adopt the same disdain for the many existing MP's who cheered Tony Blair's Iraq war speech/vote and sit at the top of their parties tree

I do, as it happens.

[Awol]

7 hours ago, itdoesntmatterwhatthissay said:

I'm playing devils advocate here because we both know the Conservatives are playing politics, but technically they didn't just vote 'not to remove the cap', but to wait until the pay review is completed before making a decision. However, I think we both know how often recommendations are actually fully embraced by political parties!

https://hansard.digiminster.com/Commons/2017-06-28/debates/BC4CBE6F-0750-4939-A277-0745C918E944/HealthSocialCareAndSecurity#contribution-C8A5D5BC-B8C5-4DD7-8FF6-6CCB8A36650F

It's important to make the distinction because any failure to now take on board the review and others opinions will make them look even weaker.

Though clearly misinformation is the order of the day as watching question time I saw Nick Ferrari say mainstream media is important for journalistic integrity and then a woman puts her hand up to tell us a story she probably saw on social media that the Conservatives cheered the public sector pay defeat, when they were really cheering an amendment victory......it couldn't have been a more ignorant response and the Canary woman nodding away just shows what a mess the media is really in.

Pay review boards are guided by the Treasury so will only recommend awards they are supposed to recommend. There's nowt independent about them - except the MP's pay review body which is of course wholly independent....

[itdoesntmatterwhatthissay]

10 minutes ago, Awol said:

Pay review boards are guided by the Treasury so will only recommend awards they are supposed to recommend. There's nowt independent about them - except the MP's pay review body which is of course wholly independent....

That's why I think it will be used to score a political point that I suspect both parties will share.

Edited June 30, 2017 by itdoesntmatterwhatthissay

[chrisp65]

37 minutes ago, itdoesntmatterwhatthissay said:

I hope you adopt the same disdain for the many existing MP's who cheered Tony Blair's Iraq war speech/vote and sit at the top of their parties tree. 

 

36 minutes ago, blandy said:

I do, as it happens.

It was one of those weird times where it felt like everyone else could see what a poor idea it was, yet the politicians sort of got themselves caught up in their own hype.

I can recall having one friend (those were the days), I can recall having this one friend who was quite bullish about it being for the greater good and we needed to be the world police. But everyone else, work, friends, family, everyone thinking it was a bad move.

That one friend that was very pro Blair has now flipped the other way and is utterly distrustful and disinterested in any form of political discussion. Utterly destroyed their 'belief', which had been almost messiah like.

[blandy]

18 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

Utterly destroyed their 'belief', which had been almost messiah like.

It completely ruined any reputation he had, with everyone, basically. Which isn't nearly enough of a "punishment".

[magnkarl]

One of Jezza's momentum ladies have crept out of the woodwork today and stirred the national press. She's elected Student Union president at Salford uni (where the Manchester bomber went) on the basis of campaigning against the prevent strategy in schools and unis. Where I work at Winchester Uni we have the same sort of people about. They hold nothing but contempt for the state, white people and the values of our country and constitution.

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/06/blind-bovine-hope-will-get-us-nowhere-time-change-response-islamic-extremism/#

Quote

For instance, still nobody wants to ask what responsibility should be apportioned to Salford University where the Manchester bomber was recently a student. There seems very little interest in the fact that the Vice Chancellor when Abedi entered the university (Martin Hall) was vocally opposed to the UK government’s only counter-extremism strategy, which encourages people to report signs of radicalisation among students.

Quote

Nor does anyone seem very interested in the fact that the current President of the Student Union – Zamzam Ibrahim – has a very interesting set of views. And not just that she has spent her time ‘representing’ Salford’s students by campaigning against the government’s only counter-extremism strategy. Ms Ibrahim has spent recent days deleting and making private various of her online profiles. Though not fast enough. Among the questions this enlightened young woman was asked on her now-deleted ask.fm profile was ‘Can there be friendship between a man and a woman’. Her short answer: ‘NO. More interesting is her answer to the question ‘What’s the one book you think everyone should be required to read?’ Her answer:

‘The Quraan [sic], We would have an Islamic takeover!’

Corbyn and Labour have a lot of work to do with the people they have enabled to be racist, openly supportive of oppression, and a general threat to democracy in unis around the country in Momentum. Surely someone in Labour needs to tell these people that they are starting to get into very murky waters. People won't remain politically correct too long when met with views like this from a woman that is supposed to represent a whole range of students from different religions, ethnicity and beliefs.

Quote

In one tweet from May 9, 2012 under the hashtag #ifIwasPresident, she wrote: 'I'd oppress white people just to give them a taste of what they put us through!' 

I have to deal with these sort of people on a daily basis in my job and it's become an increasing problem since Corbyn got elected. The voices of the few are now shutting out the many with hate, preaching and hypocrisy. The leaders of said universities are afraid to deal with the problem as it'll be seen as racist so nothing gets done. I'd be interested in hearing how the Labour voters on here would deal with it as our uni is coming up horribly short.

Edited July 1, 2017 by magnkarl

[darrenm]

4 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

One of Jezza's momentum ladies have crept out of the woodwork today and stirred the national press. She's elected Student Union president at Salford uni (where the Manchester bomber went) on the basis of campaigning against the prevent strategy in schools and unis. Where I work at Winchester Uni we have the same sort of people about. They hold nothing but contempt for the state, white people and the values of our country and constitution.

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/06/blind-bovine-hope-will-get-us-nowhere-time-change-response-islamic-extremism/#

Corbyn and Labour have a lot of work to do with the people they have enabled to be racist, openly supportive of oppression, and a general threat to democracy in unis around the country in Momentum. Surely someone in Labour needs to tell these people that they are starting to get into very murky waters. People won't remain politically correct too long when met with views like this from a woman that is supposed to represent a whole range of students from different religions, ethnicity and beliefs.

I have to deal with these sort of people on a daily basis in my job and it's become an increasing problem since Corbyn got elected. The voices of the few are now shutting out the many with hate, preaching and hypocrisy. The leaders of said universities are afraid to deal with the problem as it'll be seen as racist so nothing gets done. I'd be interested in hearing how the Labour voters on here would deal with it as our uni is coming up horribly short.

Nothing but rhetoric.

And the Spectator is as bad as the daily mail and telegraph

[magnkarl]

4 minutes ago, darrenm said:

Nothing but rhetoric.

And the Spectator is as bad as the daily mail and telegraph

Not what I asked, but thanks for your 2 pence. It's not only in the Spectator. Does it defend the fact that this woman posted such comments? The newspaper that reported it doesn't make it any less racist.

I would be interested in the way that the fine people on here would deal with the problem. It is a problem to a much larger extent than people who aren't involved in the university campus climate these days are aware of.

Edited July 1, 2017 by magnkarl

[PompeyVillan]

2 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

One of Jezza's momentum ladies have crept out of the woodwork today and stirred the national press. She's elected Student Union president at Salford uni (where the Manchester bomber went) on the basis of campaigning against the prevent strategy in schools and unis. Where I work at Winchester Uni we have the same sort of people about. They hold nothing but contempt for the state, white people and the values of our country and constitution.

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/06/blind-bovine-hope-will-get-us-nowhere-time-change-response-islamic-extremism/#

Corbyn and Labour have a lot of work to do with the people they have enabled to be racist, openly supportive of oppression, and a general threat to democracy in unis around the country in Momentum. Surely someone in Labour needs to tell these people that they are starting to get into very murky waters. People won't remain politically correct too long when met with views like this from a woman that is supposed to represent a whole range of students from different religions, ethnicity and beliefs.

I have to deal with these sort of people on a daily basis in my job and it's become an increasing problem since Corbyn got elected. The voices of the few are now shutting out the many with hate, preaching and hypocrisy. The leaders of said universities are afraid to deal with the problem as it'll be seen as racist so nothing gets done. I'd be interested in hearing how the Labour voters on here would deal with it as our uni is coming up horribly short.

 

To put it politely I would suggest that your interpretation is vastly different to mine.

And contempt for the state (or 'Establishment' as I prefer to call it)?

Abso-****-lutely.

[magnkarl]

7 minutes ago, PompeyVillan said:

To put it politely I would suggest that your interpretation is vastly different to mine.

And contempt for the state (or 'Establishment' as I prefer to call it)?

Abso-****-lutely.

What is your interpretation of the two below quotes from a University Student Union President?

Quote

'I'd oppress white people just to give them a taste of what they put us through!' 

Quote

‘The Quraan [sic], We would have an Islamic takeover!’

I'm just interested in how these sort of views are acceptable in a party in 2017. The fact that she's now deleted all of said views shows that it really isn't acceptable.

More to the point I'd love to hear what you think should be done about it, because as of now people like her are strangling the political diversity and free speech at unis around the country. We've got a meeting about it next week at my place of work and I'd love to get some input from people of the party they represent.

Edited July 1, 2017 by magnkarl

[chrisp65]

24 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

I would be interested in the way that the fine people on here would deal with the problem. 

First an answer, then a couple of questions:

Answer - I would deal with the problem by allowing her to have absolute free speech within the limits of the law. She can say and think anything she likes until her views break the law or harm somebody. If she says something racist or sexist or inciting violence that is worthy of being censured on, then she should be. Just like the rest of us.

Question - what (roughly) is your job at the university? I ask because student life has been like that since they started publishing vagina knitting patterns in the 1960's, but you appear quite uncomfortable with it.

Question - in what way do you feel the Labour party has 'enabled' racism?

[magnkarl]

33 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

First an answer, then a couple of questions:

Answer - I would deal with the problem by allowing her to have absolute free speech within the limits of the law. She can say and think anything she likes until her views break the law or harm somebody. If she says something racist or sexist or inciting violence that is worthy of being censured on, then she should be. Just like the rest of us.

Question - what (roughly) is your job at the university? I ask because student life has been like that since they started publishing vagina knitting patterns in the 1960's, but you appear quite uncomfortable with it.

Question - in what way do you feel the Labour party has 'enabled' racism?

To not disclose too much I work with the social environment at our university, each department has people like me and we work to keep the atmosphere as open and free as possible. I am aware that we've had a lot of protest (and rightly so) at universities since feminism but I don't quite get how you can compare knitting a vagina to someone stating that they want to oppress a whole group of people based on their colour while at the same time being a student union president. We have gotten an increased amount of complaints about the people from Momentum and Labour-Youth since Corbyn took over and the way they will storm into lectures, scream, threaten with violence, and do anything they can to silence debates. It's my job, together with people from other departments, to make sure that everyone at uni is treated fairly. 

About Labour enabling racism there is this almost dogmatic victimisation within Labour-Youth that everyone who is white, privileged, who lives in the richer parts of the country should in some shape or form feel bad for what their ancestors did hundreds of years ago. We should explain why extreme organisations exists by looking at ourselves rather than a whole host of other problems. People like Abbott and McDonnell are at the forefront of such thinking and for a young impressionable mind it becomes almost a fixation with trying to make people feel bad about being born white.

I am not sure if you are aware of it but if this woman was a white man spouting pro white nonsense he'd be barred, banned, thrown out and punished within an hour of posting such statements (and rightly so), while at the same time there seems to be almost a paralysis when dealing with people like her. It's a problem that we at our uni is trying to deal with at the moment but there is a lot of hindrance in dealing with someone like this.

Question - do you think the university where she operates being against Prevent has anything to do with the Manchester attacker not being caught before he did what he did? You can say what you want about Prevent but a whole lot of radical people have been caught in this net. 

[darrenm]

15 hours ago, magnkarl said:

To not disclose too much I work with the social environment at our university, each department has people like me and we work to keep the atmosphere as open and free as possible. <snip> It's my job, together with people from other departments, to make sure that everyone at uni is treated fairly. 

Ah, getcha

[HanoiVillan]

On 7/1/2017 at 16:07, magnkarl said:

One of Jezza's momentum ladies have crept out of the woodwork today and stirred the national press. She's elected Student Union president at Salford uni (where the Manchester bomber went) on the basis of campaigning against the prevent strategy in schools and unis.

Can you spell out a little more clearly how this student is 'one of Jezza's momentum ladies'? I'm not saying she isn't, but the link you provided doesn't make clear any connection. 

[PompeyVillan]

Labour now polling with numbers that could give them a majority.

And oddly (I think) are in full general election campaign mode in IDS, Boris Johnson and Amber Rudd's constituencies. 

Wonder whether that will work or put people off so soon after the GE.

[Demitri_C]

44 minutes ago, PompeyVillan said:

Labour now polling with numbers that could give them a majority.

And oddly (I think) are in full general election campaign mode in IDS, Boris Johnson and Amber Rudd's constituencies. 

Wonder whether that will work or put people off so soon after the GE.

Not really a suprise May is as popular as jimmy savile

[Wainy316]

25 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Not really a suprise May is as popular as jimmy savile

Apt, because she has a pretty similar moral compass to him.

[darrenm]

1 hour ago, PompeyVillan said:

Labour now polling with numbers that could give them a majority.

And oddly (I think) are in full general election campaign mode in IDS, Boris Johnson and Amber Rudd's constituencies. 

Wonder whether that will work or put people off so soon after the GE.

Covering off all potential leaders to keep May in the job? Stoke up the infighting a bit more when all of the candidates for leadership are precarious in their seats?

[bickster]

11 hours ago, PompeyVillan said:

Labour now polling with numbers that could give them a majority.

And oddly (I think) are in full general election campaign mode in IDS, Boris Johnson and Amber Rudd's constituencies. 

Wonder whether that will work or put people off so soon after the GE.

Marginal seats, Rudd we know about from the election and the other two's seats become marginals at the next election due to the boundary changes

Great candidates for leadership

[peterms]

On 07/01/2017 at 17:34, magnkarl said:

To not disclose too much I work with the social environment at our university, each department has people like me and we work to keep the atmosphere as open and free as possible.

Your other remarks make it sound like you are not too well suited to that role.