fruitvilla Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 4 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Inspirational. Sarcasm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 I'd really like to understand what boosting growth by being distinctively British actually means. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 4 minutes ago, fruitvilla said: Sarcasm? I’ve booked in for a tattoo: Financially Responsible. Distinctively British. Partnership with Business. and then on the other cheek: Live. Love. Laugh. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitvilla Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 @chrisp65 I'll take that as a yes. I can't always tell on VT. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 46 minutes ago, Jareth said: I'd really like to understand what boosting growth by being distinctively British actually means. Jacob Rees-Mogg, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 26, 2022 Author Share Posted July 26, 2022 24 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: Jacob Rees-Mogg, I think. I saw him the othwr day on the train. I can confirm if there is any doubt he is a plonker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 8 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: I saw him the othwr day on the train. I can confirm if there is any doubt he is a plonker I have never really got over Victoria Coren-Mitchell saying on HIGNFY that she found JRM very attractive. It shouldn't have happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 26, 2022 Moderator Share Posted July 26, 2022 1 hour ago, Jareth said: I'd really like to understand what boosting growth by being distinctively British actually means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 13 hours ago, chrisp65 said: Inspirational. This makes me feel physically stuck and is SO far away from what a Labour party should be doing and saying. He's in the wrong party. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 27, 2022 Moderator Share Posted July 27, 2022 11 minutes ago, Jon said: He's in the wrong party. This isn't remotely true This is the Labour Party of the last 60 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 3 minutes ago, bickster said: This isn't remotely true This is the Labour Party of the last 60 years It's very much 'new labour'. It's certainly not what the labour party was established to represent. It's certainly not the party for me. My environmentalism and socialism has been with the green party for some time now, only swayed by the Jez years. It won't be returning under this duplicitous capitalist Representative for Wellingborough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 37 minutes ago, Jon said: This makes me feel physically stuck and is SO far away from what a Labour party should be doing and saying. He's in the wrong party. As has been said before, it’s Conservative party with less scandal and corruption. And a different coloured tie. Its practically impossible to tell the 2 parties apart. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 27, 2022 Moderator Share Posted July 27, 2022 1 minute ago, Genie said: As has been said before, it’s Conservative party with less scandal and corruption. And a different coloured tie. Its practically impossible to tell the 2 parties apart. That's what they want. Which is just a stupid position to take 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 2 minutes ago, Genie said: As has been said before, it’s Conservative party with less scandal and corruption. And a different coloured tie. Its practically impossible to tell the 2 parties apart. Which shows you exactly where popular opinion lies on how to run the country. It's a popularity competition, with who has the most likeable leader, the policies follow the data. We live in a liberally conservative country. If you want to nationalise, you have to show examples of other countries. Rail? Look at Germany and say "are you pissed off at spending £188 for a return to London from Bham? In Germany, it would cost you £35.." "Do you like the way Norway/Sweden/Denmark to X, Y and Z? Well if we increase your taxes to A, B or C, then this is what we could provide". There's none of that, as @chrisp65 demonstrated, it's just buzzword slogans "MAKE THE ECONOMY STRONGER" - it means nothing, but it's what people want to hear, because they (we) don't understand (nor want to) the complexity in running a country. We're a nation of headline readers and the Tories have that down to a fine art now, backed by erm... the people who write the headlines.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted July 27, 2022 Moderator Share Posted July 27, 2022 21 minutes ago, Jon said: It's very much 'new labour'. It's certainly not what the labour party was established to represent. It's certainly not the party for me. My environmentalism and socialism has been with the green party for some time now, only swayed by the Jez years. It won't be returning under this duplicitous capitalist Representative for Wellingborough. Yeah, it is very much "new Labour". I guess they believe that seeing as that's the (only) way the Labour party got elected in the past, what, 40+ odd years, that maybe that's the way to be? It's always going to be an argument between idealism v pragmatism with any party standing for election. Some voters will be like "what are you going to do to fix my kid's school/the local hospital/the potholes/whatever" and others will be "the fundamental way the country works is completely wrong and we need a complete revolution in so many areas". Or another way of putting it is "we're in a swamp, up to our necks surrounded by crocodiles, what can you do to solve this?" and one side says "we'll give you a rope to pull yourself out of the swamp, right now" while the other one says "we'll legislate to change the way drainage operates so that the swamp is dried out and future generations don't face the same problem". I think most people up to their neck with crocodiles want the rope to pull them straight away from danger, and then, after that, they want the drainage system fixed. And that's kind of the problem with the UK and what Labour face. If they go into the next election with the headline policy and identity of "nationalise water and the post office and...etc." a hell of a lot of people will say "the A&E ward has 6 hour waiting times, I can't afford to heat the house and you're going to spend the first year nationalising the Post Office? - WTF are you on - yes, I admit when asked about it I agree with nationalisation, but tbh I've more pressing issues right now, that can wait..." So I think that's where Labour are pitching themselves. And it does disappoint people who are looking for the whole change the system stuff, people looking longer term. I'm the same as you on the environmentalism etc. (though I never ever thought there was the remotest chance of Corbyn getting elected as PM, and you've got to get voted in to do anything at all. Some good policies and stuff, but no chance to actually enact them, because they lost. 1 minute ago, Genie said: As has been said before, it’s Conservative party with less scandal and corruption. And a different coloured tie. Its practically impossible to tell the 2 parties apart. It's quite easy to tell them apart, for me, but I guess it's which parts of what they say chime with you (or me). Tories make wild promises, utterly fail to live up to them and then blame foreigners, refugees, remoaners, immigrants, the BBC, Channel 4, and behave as though they are above the law and rules are for little people. Labour, rather staidly, proposes a return to doing things with integrity and reasoned analysis, not over promising and repairing things bit by bit - it's not very dynamic, it's not inspiring and it kind of ignores the long term problems of the planet, the country, the electoral system, the hold of big business over the way stuff works and the media works and a whole lot more. They do really need to add more "vision" to their messaging before too long. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 4 minutes ago, blandy said: It's quite easy to tell them apart, for me, but I guess it's which parts of what they say chime with you (or me). Tories make wild promises, utterly fail to live up to them and then blame foreigners, refugees, remoaners, immigrants, the BBC, Channel 4, and behave as though they are above the law and rules are for little people. Labour, rather staidly, proposes a return to doing things with integrity and reasoned analysis, not over promising and repairing things bit by bit - it's not very dynamic, it's not inspiring and it kind of ignores the long term problems of the planet, the country, the electoral system, the hold of big business over the way stuff works and the media works and a whole lot more. They do really need to add more "vision" to their messaging before too long. Isn’t that the same as what I said? Conservatives, but with less scandal and corruption? They seem to be just promising a continuation of what we have, but with less lies (remains to be seen if/when they actually get into power). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted July 27, 2022 Moderator Share Posted July 27, 2022 4 minutes ago, Genie said: Isn’t that the same as what I said? Conservatives, but with less scandal and corruption? They seem to be just promising a continuation of what we have, but with less lies (remains to be seen if/when they actually get into power). Yeah similar. I wasn't trying to argue, just talking. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icouldtelltheworld Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 15 hours ago, chrisp65 said: Inspirational. At least during the New Labour years we got snappy slogans - this is a pile of meaningless drivel. As has been said countless times in this thread, it would be nice come election time to have actual positive reasons to vote for Labour, rather than simply against the Tories. The little tidbits were being fed by Starmer really do not do anything to inspire confidence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 1 hour ago, Genie said: Isn’t that the same as what I said? Conservatives, but with less scandal and corruption? They seem to be just promising a continuation of what we have, but with less lies (remains to be seen if/when they actually get into power). I'd politely suggest that if you think that the current Tory party MO is "not over promising and repairing things bit by bit" then you've not been paying as much attention as you might have! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 16 minutes ago, ml1dch said: I'd politely suggest that if you think that the current Tory party MO is "not over promising and repairing things bit by bit" then you've not been paying as much attention as you might have! Levelling up, is what exactly? It’s whatever people want to believe it is. It can be under or over promised depending on what your definition of success looks like. Both parties are talking in slogans that don’t mean anything specifically. Can’t fail if you didn’t state what the intention is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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