The Tim Sherwood Thread

[Hev]

Oh yes. lets get Viera in. He is brimming with managerial experience isnt he? Still he is foreign and therefore not a cockney wide boy so thats ok then . 

[sonic_bouma]

How often do you hear Monk, Koeman, Martinez, Pulis, Pochetino, Howe or Hughes come out with the ridiculous comments that Tim comes out with.

Never. His ego and bullshit spouting is a massive problem. It's like he's trying to be a mourinho character but doesn't have the management skills to back it up.

hes getting off lightly with his complete u turn in our targets for this year coz the press simply can't remember what he said last year coz they don't really care about us. He's lucky they don't because if it was a Brenden Rodgers he'd be getting crucified.

i also don't buy this "oh it's fine he just wears his heart on his sleeve" crap. Well he **** shouldn't. He's a manager of a premier league team for gods sake. Of grown men. Celebrate on the touch line. Fine. But don't act like a spoilt child in front of the cameras while throwing your players under a bus. And also don't give them the message you just want to survive this season.

were not talking about a Pardew or an Allardyce here , who both have a tendency to say something cringeworthy, and actually have a track record in the prem. If it was them producing this run of results I would give them way more time.

were putting faith in a guy who's experience before us was 20 something games for Spurs. He has no history in management. And the short history he does have is littered with embarrassing behaviours.

His personality IS a problem. And when you combine that with his experience you've got one very big shit sandwich in my opinion.

were not gonna be in a relegation battle because we have young players. We will live or die by Tims decisions . Just like he admitted over the season but has now conveniently gone back on.

 

 

[markavfc40]

Lambert didnt spend 40 million + pounds in one off season.

 

 

I'm genuinely struggling with posts like this as they are quoting what he has spent over the summer with almost total disregard for the reality of the situation he faced.

When Sherwood arrived he inherited a squad that had played 25 games, had 22 points and had scored 12 goals. Come the end of the season that squad of players finished 17th on 38 points the same points total as the season before. It was a squad that wreaked of a lack of any mental strength and had a losing mentality so clearly major changes needed to be made and players needed to be shipped out and fresh faces bought in.

I'd be confident in saying though that of the players Sherwood inherited the four he wouldn't want to have lost would have been Benteke, Delph, Vlaar and Cleverley. The only four players he inherited, aside from maybe Grealish, who you could make an argument for that could hold their own in a top 8 side. To therefore improve and for us to give ourselves a chance to kick on it would have been expected we'd have needed to spend 20 mill + had those 4 players stayed. The reality of what transpired though is that those 4 players left and needed replacing but we didn't get market value for three of them. Delph was worth twice what we got for him, we got nothing for Vlaar and Cleverley signed on a free elsewhere. Realistically had we have gone out and signed like for like players - players of proven prem quality good enough to hold their own in top 8 sides and in Bentekes case capable of getting you 20+ goals a season then we'd have had to spend 50 mill+. That was just to maintain what we had before as despite having those 4 players we still finished 17th.

I get the impression I am probably coming over as a Sherowod apologist. As someone who is really backing. I am not. I like the guy but not with the passion some clearly dislike him. I think he will do ok given time but am not as confident he will do well as some seem confident he will fail. If I found out he had been sacked tomorrow then it would be a case of so be it. What I don't like though is a total disregard for facts and the facts for me are these. We lost our four best players over the summer and to realistically replace them like for like would have needed a spend of 50mill. That is what they were comfortably worth. That was just to stand still with the squad Sherwood inherited. Another fact is that over the summer despite signing 12 players I would bet my house that the wage bill has come down. We therefore have a spend of approx 50 mill, a reduced wage bill and have had to replace players worth more than what we have spent.

Given all of the above is 7 league games, and 2 cup wins, really the time to be getting on the managers back with 12 new players in the squad, seven of which have never kicked a ball in this league before. Really no one should be having to make excuses for Sherwood as for me he has done very little wrong. He inherited a shambles and he kept us up. He lost his 4 best players over the summer and has tried to rebuild the squad with no more to spend than what the four players he lost were worth whilst also reducing the wage bill.

For me in terms of the players we have purchased we have done very well and have a nice mix of players who have great potential alongside some proven quality. Sherwoods only major failing so far is not getting them to gel and, apart from brief spells in games, get anything like the best out of them inside the first 7 league games.

I am not expecting any fan to back Sherwood to the hilt. I am certainly not as he has done nothing in his managerial career to warrant that level of faith in him. I think though he deserves a fair crack of the whip and seven league games with twelve new players in your squad, after losing your four best players, is not even close to being fair.

Edited September 27, 2015 by markavfc40

[Arj Guy]

What kind of manager writes his team's season off after 7 games?

He is the most moronic manager in the league by some distance. A complete embarrasment. Spurs fans were 100% right

[Keyblade]

Lambert didnt spend 40 million + pounds in one off season.

 

 

When Sherwood arrived he inherited a squad that had played 25 games, had 22 points and had scored 12 goals

Damn, I almost forgot but things were actually this bad.

[useless]

The comparisons with Lambert's time are futile. Sherwood should be doing a lot better than he is with the players he has, regardless of what happened whilst Lambert was here.

[Keyblade]

One thing I thought he learned from his time at Spurs was criticizing his players in public. Granted, he hasn't singled anyone out yet like he did back then but he's made some pretty bad implications that I don't think is sitting too well with some of these players. A bit of Lambert-esque over-optimism in and protection of his players in this regard certainly wouldn't go amiss. To suggest that they will be in another relegation fight even if he's right in the sense that it's going to take time for them to gel is naive at best and moronic at worst.

[Spoony]

This is all a huge overreaction. A few wins in the next couple of games and I'm sure he'll stop being a "moron" etc etc. He wasn't a moron about 4 games ago if memory serves. And if he should be doing better with this team as it's better than Lambert's team, remember that Sherwood was the one that brought these players in.

Villa fans have alarmingly short memories. Remember Lambert? Remember how bad we were? Remember never scoring and how boring that was? Remember being the laughing stock of the league? Remember Tonev, Bowery, Luna and all those wonderful signings?

I really want us to stop changing managers. It doesn't help anything and it isn't the biggest issue this club has. I accept Sherwood isn't doing a good job right now but he did a great job at the end of last season to keep us up and he had a strong window. On balance I'd say he definitely deserves to carry on and we really need to get behind the team. Another sacking and another manager will help nothing.

[markavfc40]

The comparisons with Lambert's time are futile. Sherwood should be doing a lot better than he is with the players he has, regardless of what happened whilst Lambert was here.

Why should he? he lost the four best players he inherited for nothing like their combined market value. He not only had to replace them just to stand still but to try push us forward he had to also bring in a handful of other players. This by spending no more than what the four players he lost were worth and at the same time reduce the wage bill.

You seriously think the above combined with the fact we have 12 new players all trying to be integrated into the squad, molded into a team, the majority of whom have never kicked a ball in this league before means that inside just seven league games Sherwood should be doing a lot better than his predecessor who had the best part of three years in charge. Give me a break ffs. I am all for fans openly not liking Sherwood, all for fans thinking he is nothing more than a cockney wide boy and is all mouth and no trousers but lets not paint a different picture in terms of the reality of what he has been faced with.

[Arj Guy]

This is all a huge overreaction. A few wins in the next couple of games and I'm sure he'll stop being a "moron" etc etc. He wasn't a moron about 4 games ago if memory serves. And if he should be doing better with this team as it's better than Lambert's team, remember that Sherwood was the one that brought these players in.

Villa fans have alarmingly short memories. Remember Lambert? Remember how bad we were? Remember never scoring and how boring that was? Remember being the laughing stock of the league? Remember Tonev, Bowery, Luna and all those wonderful signings?

I really want us to stop changing managers. It doesn't help anything and it isn't the biggest issue this club has. I accept Sherwood isn't doing a good job right now but he did a great job at the end of last season to keep us up and he had a strong window. On balance I'd say he definitely deserves to carry on and we really need to get behind the team. Another sacking and another manager will help nothing.

We are still one of the league's biggest laughing stocks. Having a manager who talks complete bullshit week in week out and writes off our season after 7 games does not help

Edited September 27, 2015 by Arj Guy

[Dr_Pangloss]

What kind of manager writes his team's season off after 7 games?

He is the most moronic manager in the league by some distance. A complete embarrasment. Spurs fans were 100% right

Agreed, those comments were pathetic and embarassing. I'm embarrassed to have this guy as manager of Aston Villa. He was talking a lot about 'losers' last season but those comments were precisely the comments of a born loser in this business. 

[Keyblade]

This is all a huge overreaction. A few wins in the next couple of games and I'm sure he'll stop being a "moron" etc etc. He wasn't a moron about 4 games ago if memory serves. And if he should be doing better with this team as it's better than Lambert's team, remember that Sherwood was the one that brought these players in.

Villa fans have alarmingly short memories. Remember Lambert? Remember how bad we were? Remember never scoring and how boring that was? Remember being the laughing stock of the league? Remember Tonev, Bowery, Luna and all those wonderful signings?

I really want us to stop changing managers. It doesn't help anything and it isn't the biggest issue this club has. I accept Sherwood isn't doing a good job right now but he did a great job at the end of last season to keep us up and he had a strong window. On balance I'd say he definitely deserves to carry on and we really need to get behind the team. Another sacking and another manager will help nothing.

Not nuch has changed since Lambert tbh. We're still bad and the laughing stock of the league albeit with slightly better players and minus one world class striker. But I agree, changing managers right now will solve nothing. Are we going to sack the new guy aftwr 7 games as well? Where does it end?

[TRO]

Lambert didnt spend 40 million + pounds in one off season.

 

 

I'm genuinely struggling with posts like this as they are quoting what he has spent over the summer with almost total disregard for the reality of the situation he faced.

When Sherwood arrived he inherited a squad that had played 25 games, had 22 points and had scored 12 goals. Come the end of the season that squad of players finished 17th on 38 points the same points total as the season before. It was a squad that wreaked of a lack of any mental strength and had a losing mentality so clearly major changes needed to be made and players needed to be shipped out and fresh faces bought in.

I'd be confident in saying though that of the players Sherwood inherited the four he wouldn't want to have lost would have been Benteke, Delph, Vlaar and Cleverley. The only four players he inherited, aside from maybe Grealish, who you could make an argument for that could hold their own in a top 8 side. To therefore improve and for us to give ourselves a chance to kick on it would have been expected we'd have needed to spend 20 mill + had those 4 players stayed. The reality of what transpired though is that those 4 players left and needed replacing but we didn't get market value for three of them. Delph was worth twice what we got for him, we got nothing for Vlaar and Cleverley signed on a free elsewhere. Realistically had we have gone out and signed like for like players - players of proven prem quality good enough to hold their own in top 8 sides and in Bentekes case capable of getting you 20+ goals a season then we'd have had to spend 50 mill+. That was just to maintain what we had before as despite having those 4 players we still finished 17th.

I get the impression I am probably coming over as a Sherowod apologist. As someone who is really backing. I am not. I like the guy but not with the passion some clearly dislike him. I think he will do ok given time but am not as confident he will do well as some seem confident he will fail. If I found out he had been sacked tomorrow then it would be a case of so be it. What I don't like though is a total disregard for facts and the facts for me are these. We lost out four best players over the summer and to realistically replace them like for like would have needed a spend of 50mill. That is what they were comfortably worth. That was jut to stand still with the squad Sherwood inherited. Another fact is that over the summer despite signing 12 players I would bet my house that the wage bill has come down. We therefore have a spend of approx 50 mill, a reduced wage bill and have had to replace players worth more than what we have spent.

Given all of the above is 7 league games, and 2 cup wins, really the time to be getting on the managers back with 12 new players in the squad, seven of which have never kicked a ball in this league before. Really no one should be having to make excuses for Sherwood as for me he has done very little wrong. He inherited a shambles and he kept us up. He lost his 4 best players over the summer and has tried to rebuild the squad with no more to spend than what the four players he lost were worth whilst also reducing the wage bill.

For me in terms of the players we have purchased we have done very well and have a nice mix of players who have great potential alongside some proven quality. Sherwoods only major failing so far is not getting them to gel and, apart from brief spells in games, and get anything like the best out of them inside the first 7 league games.

I am not expecting any fan to back Sherwood to the hilt. I am certainly not as he has done nothing in his managerial career to warrant that level of faith in him. I think though he deserves a fair crack of the whip and seven league games with twelve new players in your squad, after losing your four best players, is not even close to being fair.

                     Good post Mark.....and once again, difficult to argue against.

                      as you and all posters on here know, I like Tim Sherwood and I'm not going to blast him now......but I would be lying if i said I have no concerns.

                       He has improved the fluidity of the side and that is pleasant on the eye and goals are capable of coming from many area's now....But the benevolence we show the opposition is very concerning. The TEAM can't defend.

                        Two away games and we score 2 goals ample to get points with, if the right application is employed.

                        We have one win this season in the league and each defeat has been by the odd goal, that for me is an interesting stat:

                        On the positive -  we are so close to turning this around, we are not getting pummeled.

                        On the Negative -  because we are so close to getting results it tells me there is not enough fight in the team, we did not come back yesterday, like Leicester did against us.      

[useless]

I think this idea that Cleverly, Vlaar, Delph and Benteke were our four best players is an exaggeration. Benteke and Delph as of last season were probably our best two players, but not sure about Cleverly and Vlaar being in the top four, not saying they were bad just that we had other players who we might consider to be better than them.

[Arj Guy]

I think this idea that Cleverly, Vlaar, Delph and Benteke were our four best players is an exaggeration. Benteke and Delph as of last season were probably our best two players, but not sure about Cleverly and Vlaar being in the top four, not saying they were bad just that we had other players who we might consider to be better than them.

Cleverly had about 5 good games last season. Shit for the rest of it. Vlaar had a crap season. Delph is replaceable.

[Bunnski]

Cleverley had no more than 7 or 8 good games for us and was beyond shit outside of that run of games. Vlaar was poison last season except for the start of the season until he get injured, after that he was a liability in a lot of games. Fair enough saying Benteke and Delph are hard to replace but not the other 2.

[One For The Road]

I think we have to stick with him as its absurb to sack a manager after seven games (but then again if he is never going to change........)

 

Seven games?? So the Notts County debacle, SHA performance and the whole second half of last season didn't happen? 

Very srange....

[markavfc40]

 

                     Good post Mark.....and once again, difficult to argue against.

                      as you and all posters on here know, I like Tim Sherwood and I'm not going to blast him now......but I would be lying if i said I have no concerns.

                       He has improved the fluidity of the side and that is pleasant on the eye and goals are capable of coming from many area's now....But the benevolence we show the opposition is very concerning. The TEAM can't defend.

                        Two away games and we score 2 goals ample to get points with, if the right application is employed.

                        We have one win this season in the league and each defeat has been by the odd goal, that for me is an interesting stat:

                        On the positive -  we are so close to turning this around, we are not getting pummeled.

                        On the Negative -  because we are so close to getting results it tells me there is not enough fight in the team, we did not come back yesterday, like Leicester did against us.      

 

I agree with much of what you say TRO and I'd be genuinely worried if we were 17 games into the season and what is happening now is still happening. We aren't though we are 7. Seven league games in with a squad containing twelve players that have been here 5 minutes the majority of which are either new to his country or new to this league. It was always going to take time.

I can't defend the fact that results have been poor and that at times we have been shocking. On the other hand I have also seen us play some cracking football in spells most notably for much of the game against Sunderland, the first half against Leicester and the second half against Sha.

I can't be supremely confident in saying that things will get dramatically better as I don't have enough faith in Sherwood to feel confident in doing so. What I can safely say though is that after seven league games no fan can say he has been given anything like a fair crack at getting the best out of his own squad, a squad that contains twelve new players.

It is no surprise to me that many have quickly pounced on his back. I could smell it a mile off when he arrived.  A lot of fans didn't want him here so I get that when things are going badly he will get little to no grace off some. I don't actually think any fan backs him to the hilt. His record and lack of experience doesn't warrant that. I am not fussed by him I am just simply happy to give him a fair chance and see how he goes. If the time comes and he has shown himself after a fair amount of games with his own squad to not be up to the task then I'll shout as loud as anyone for him to go. That time is not now though.

Edited September 27, 2015 by markavfc40

[Morley_crosses_to_Withe]

I think something we can agree on is that he's going no where for the foreseeable  future. The club aren't going to pull the trigger after barely two months into the new season. I'm sure they won't keep him for three years if he's not performing, either, but for the next three/six months at the very least, he'll be allowed to get on with the job.

 

[sonic_bouma]

Cleverley had no more than 7 or 8 good games for us and was beyond shit outside of that run of games. Vlaar was poison last season except for the start of the season until he get injured, after that he was a liability in a lot of games. Fair enough saying Benteke and Delph are hard to replace but not the other 2.

exactly. Vlaar and Cleverley were wank last year.

massive overstatement to suggest that Tim had a real job on his hands to replace those two players. Laughable in fact.

his real test was to replace Benteke. And he didn't even bother.