Zatman Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 its a circle though. fans have to lift the team and team have to lift the fans and I think both are failing at the moment at Villa Park if im honest. I think some Villa fans not just now but over the years seem to have a blinkered opinion that our great history should automatically lead to a great current team, opposition have known for years that an early goal and the fans will get on the teams back. wasnt so long ago the team was booed off opening day of season after losing to Wigan happened at Arsenal this year.....and we know where they are in the league. And that was an away game where the fans are supposed to be so wonderful! we arent that fickle to boo a 3-1 win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 The worst home form in the league and we're moaning at the fans? Doesn't seem right somehow. Exactly, the moaning and the level of expectation is not the end product of a particular scoreline in a particular match it is a cumulative effect of nearly four seasons of playing boring football and not winning many games at home. When people have been subjected to an inferior product over a sustained period of time is it any wonder that they are not full of the joys of spring and they have a sense of 'de ja vu' every time we go a goal down? Hold on a moment. These forums (and likely a good section of Villa fans) were buoyed by the performance in drawing 2-2 at Liverpool and "looking forward to this kind of football more often". The very next game and they're booing after 8 minutes. Frustration at going behind to your rivals, I completely understand... but booing? It serves no purpose at all and, unfortunately, our fans are among the "best" at doing it. You can cite poor football over seasons as the reason, sure. The one thing we actually have the ability to do, though, is support the team. We have no say over what team the manager picks, how much the owner spends, what formation we play etc. etc. The ONE thing we can do is actively get behind the players on the pitch and create a better atmosphere for them to play in. Unfortunately, a vast proportion of our fans don't want to do this. Because it's "their right" to boo. You're only contributing to the downward spiral. Ok you win, the fans are to blame for all the crap that Villa have served up for the last few years because if they jumped for joy and sang their hearts out oblivious to the rubbish served up week after week then Villa would be so much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I don't think anyone's trying to claim that the fans are entirely to blame for what's happened. All people are saying is that while the players rarely do much to buoy the fans, by that same token the fans often don't do much to buoy the players either. It's a two-way thing and as Zat said both are failing right now for the most part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 The worst home form in the league and we're moaning at the fans? Doesn't seem right somehow. Exactly, the moaning and the level of expectation is not the end product of a particular scoreline in a particular match it is a cumulative effect of nearly four seasons of playing boring football and not winning many games at home. When people have been subjected to an inferior product over a sustained period of time is it any wonder that they are not full of the joys of spring and they have a sense of 'de ja vu' every time we go a goal down? Hold on a moment. These forums (and likely a good section of Villa fans) were buoyed by the performance in drawing 2-2 at Liverpool and "looking forward to this kind of football more often". The very next game and they're booing after 8 minutes. Frustration at going behind to your rivals, I completely understand... but booing? It serves no purpose at all and, unfortunately, our fans are among the "best" at doing it. You can cite poor football over seasons as the reason, sure. The one thing we actually have the ability to do, though, is support the team. We have no say over what team the manager picks, how much the owner spends, what formation we play etc. etc. The ONE thing we can do is actively get behind the players on the pitch and create a better atmosphere for them to play in. Unfortunately, a vast proportion of our fans don't want to do this. Because it's "their right" to boo. You're only contributing to the downward spiral. Ok you win, the fans are to blame for all the crap that Villa have served up for the last few years because if they jumped for joy and sang their hearts out oblivious to the rubbish served up week after week then Villa would be so much better. Couldn't be wider of the mark. Of course fans aren't to blame for poor football (no idea where you've got that from?) but they are completely conducive to a bad atmosphere at home games, which may well "encourage" the shit football. As an incredibly basic example, you're more likely to try different things if you're encouraged to do so. If you're being called shit, you wouldn't want to show yourself up so you play it safe. In football terms, this may be the difference between trying to pass it out of defence (risky) or simply hoofing the ball away (safe). Instead of attempting a cutting through ball that might go astray (risky) you opt for the pass back to your defence (safe). Essentially, absolving yourself of any further blame from people who you know will boo you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skarroki Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 2 things I've been wondering recently, the first is, the people who don't like Lambert, who would you rather have as manager realistically? The second, and this is Lambert's fault, I think the reason for our bad home form has nothing to do with the fans positivity or negativity or ability or no number 10 player, I would say the crucial thing is the fact we have the widest pitch in the football league yet insist on playing the narrowest of formations at home. If we played a proper 4-5-1 with 2 decent wingers we could exploit the space. It would have been ideal this season with Benteke but if Lambert did decide to do it He'll be gone by next season and we'd have to hope on Kozak stepping up or a new decent striker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 (edited) I genuinely can't remember the last time I missed a home game and I think the fans have been extremely patient and very supportive for the most part. This club has been in a constant decline for almost 4 years now and pretty much flat lined as a club in and around the relegation zone for the last 3 and half years. The home record during that time has been absolutely dire. Now that simply isn't good enough for this great club so it is totally understandable that patience has worn thin at times and frustrations have been shown. I think given some of the tripe served up and the season on season struggle then our support in terms of numbers and vocal support at the games has held up very well. In fact in terms of getting behind the team as a home support we are better than most as you go to a lot of grounds and the home support is very subdued. Lambert in particular has been given exceptional backing from the fans. Edited February 7, 2014 by markavfc40 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 its a circle though. fans have to lift the team and team have to lift the fans and I think both are failing at the moment at Villa Park if im honest. I think some Villa fans not just now but over the years seem to have a blinkered opinion that our great history should automatically lead to a great current team, opposition have known for years that an early goal and the fans will get on the teams back. wasnt so long ago the team was booed off opening day of season after losing to Wigan happened at Arsenal this year.....and we know where they are in the league. And that was an away game where the fans are supposed to be so wonderful! we arent that fickle to boo a 3-1 win Think my post was misread or i didn't explain properly.....I meant Arsenal was booing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 (edited) I genuinely can't remember the last time I missed a home game and I think the fans have been extremely patient and very supportive for the most part. This club has been in a constant decline for almost 4 years now and pretty much flat lined as a club in and around the relegation zone for the last 3 and half years. The home record during that time has been absolutely dire. Now that simply isn't good enough for this great club so it is totally understandable that patience has worn thin at times and frustrations have been shown. I think given some of the tripe served up and the season on season struggle then our support in terms of numbers and vocal support at the games has held up very well. In fact in terms of getting behind the team as a home support we are better than most as you go to a lot of grounds and the home support is very subdued. Lambert in particular has been given exceptional backing from the fans. I honestly don't know where you're getting this from. Apart from the odd game the atmosphere at VP is shit and too often borders on poisonous. There's nothing wrong with fans venting their frustrations at the end of the match but unfortunately many are too quick to groan and get on the players backs during the game. It's pretty well known among fans of other clubs (and presumably staff and players at those clubs) that it doesn't take much to subdue VP and have fans moaning. Edited February 7, 2014 by Mantis 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 The worst home form in the league and we're moaning at the fans? Doesn't seem right somehow.Exactly, the moaning and the level of expectation is not the end product of a particular scoreline in a particular match it is a cumulative effect of nearly four seasons of playing boring football and not winning many games at home. When people have been subjected to an inferior product over a sustained period of time is it any wonder that they are not full of the joys of spring and they have a sense of 'de ja vu' every time we go a goal down? The fans are not to blame (as much as some on here seem to suggest) for the negative and insipid atmosphere at Villa Park it is the absent owner, a succession of inept managers, the low quality players used, the utterly boring style of football and a continuous supply of poor home results. The worst home form in the league and we're moaning at the fans? Doesn't seem right somehow.Exactly, the moaning and the level of expectation is not the end product of a particular scoreline in a particular match it is a cumulative effect of nearly four seasons of playing boring football and not winning many games at home. When people have been subjected to an inferior product over a sustained period of time is it any wonder that they are not full of the joys of spring and they have a sense of 'de ja vu' every time we go a goal down? The fans are not to blame (as much as some on here seem to suggest) for the negative and insipid atmosphere at Villa Park it is the absent owner, a succession of inept managers, the low quality players used, the utterly boring style of football and a continuous supply of poor home results.Why are the fans so good away then? Same owner same players same manager and we do get better results!Well its quite obvious. We have 3 or 4 thousand away fans compared to 34,000 home fans. The smaller amount who give up more time and more money to follow away are likely to be the more vocal supportive ones. So a more vocal support helps the team produce better results, hey presto! Well all the experts have mentioned our counter attacking style that has helped with our results away from home but we'll go with the away fans then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 You could have predicted the posters who would blame the fans. Wonder if any of those moaning try to start chants or cheer loudly when others around are groaning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 This club has been in a constant decline for almost 4 years now and pretty much flat lined as a club in and around the relegation zone for the last 3 and half years. The home record during that time has been absolutely dire. Now that simply isn't good enough for this great club so it is totally understandable that patience has worn thin at times and frustrations have been shown. I think given some of the tripe served up and the season on season struggle then our support in terms of numbers and vocal support at the games has held up very well. In fact in terms of getting behind the team as a home support we are better than most as you go to a lot of grounds and the home support is very subdued. A decline would imply that we've moved backwards consistently - in 2010/11 we finished 9th, then (declined to) 16th in 2011/12. 15th in 2012/13. Currently 10th in 2013/14. Moving forwards isn't a decline. Also, our home support is pretty poor. Firstly, in terms of sheer footfall. In fact, the only team in the league that has a worse average attendance:ground capacity ratio is Sunderland (82.5% full on average - we're at 84.5%) which is shoddy given that we're based in the second biggest city in England and there are only 2 top flight clubs in this region at the moment. Secondly, in terms of vocal support we're generally quiet. If in a period of buoyancy, we can certainly be noisy but on the whole, we're quite subdued and easy to boo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 We've got a billionaire owner who doesn't attend games and has seen us struggle while he makes sure he's financially OK. We've got a squad full of millionaires who can barely pass the ball to each other on a regular basis. And somehow the 35,000 who give up their time and money to go and watch are getting stick from certain posters. Amazing really. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 In the fans front argument, for me it is up the players to make the fans cheer. They are the paying public, paying for something which is meant to an entertainment. There are many things that can get the crowd going, a strong tackle a good bit of skill/dribble, a good shot etc. However, if the fans see a lack of effort and application then they are obviously going to become irate with what happening. Look at the man utd game as an example, after the initial ten minutes where we attacked, we didn't offer any performance to cheer. We rolled over and allowed a very man utd side to win at a canter. Lambert has been backed by the fans a lot, and some if this may have been because he was mcleish.. At the moment the crowd may not be the most supportive, but then they are hardly baying for his blood, apart from the odd grumble. As for him getting more complaints this yr despite being in a better league position, people are worried that we have not carried on the form and performances seen towards the tail of last season and that the teams appears to digressing rather than progressing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 (edited) You could have predicted the posters who would blame the fans. Wonder if any of those moaning try to start chants or cheer loudly when others around are groaning? Who is actually blaming the fans though? Some people are just pointing out that are our home support doesn't exactly help things. I'm not sure if the constant misinterpretation of this message is just an innocent mistake or deliberate but it's getting annoying constantly having our words twisted. Edited February 7, 2014 by Mantis 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 We've got a billionaire owner who doesn't attend games and has seen us struggle while he makes sure he's financially OK. We've got a squad full of millionaires who can barely pass the ball to each other on a regular basis. And somehow the 35,000 who give up their time and money to go and watch are getting stick from certain posters. Amazing really. It's all part of the cycle BJ. I know in your head that Paul Lambert and Randy Lerner are the sole reasons for anything bad at Aston Villa, but the truth is that there are a number of factors involved and the fans play a part. I have no idea what Randy Lerner attending games would mean for us by the way, but you love beating this drum. Please explain. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 It doesn't mean anything. I don't care if he's there or not. But then I'm not moaning at the fans who do go. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 (edited) This club has been in a constant decline for almost 4 years now and pretty much flat lined as a club in and around the relegation zone for the last 3 and half years. The home record during that time has been absolutely dire. Now that simply isn't good enough for this great club so it is totally understandable that patience has worn thin at times and frustrations have been shown. I think given some of the tripe served up and the season on season struggle then our support in terms of numbers and vocal support at the games has held up very well. In fact in terms of getting behind the team as a home support we are better than most as you go to a lot of grounds and the home support is very subdued. A decline would imply that we've moved backwards consistently - in 2010/11 we finished 9th, then (declined to) 16th in 2011/12. 15th in 2012/13. Currently 10th in 2013/14. Moving forwards isn't a decline. Also, our home support is pretty poor. Firstly, in terms of sheer footfall. In fact, the only team in the league that has a worse average attendance:ground capacity ratio is Sunderland (82.5% full on average - we're at 84.5%) which is shoddy given that we're based in the second biggest city in England and there are only 2 top flight clubs in this region at the moment. Secondly, in terms of vocal support we're generally quiet. If in a period of buoyancy, we can certainly be noisy but on the whole, we're quite subdued and easy to boo. If you don't think we have pretty much been in and around the relegation mire for the most part of the last 3 and a half seasons then I am not sure we are talking about the same club. There has of course been the odd little peak and trough. In terms of numbers In 07/08 we averaged over 40k, in 08/09 we averaged just under 40k, in 09/10 we averaged just under 39k but also had two long cup runs and two trips to Wembley to fork out for. We didn't win anything during those three seasons, didn't challenge for the title. We simply showed a little bit of ambition, flirted with finishing top 4 and eventually finished 6th on three occasions. The next three seasons gradually saw a drop of in numbers. We averaged just over 37k in 10/11 and then in 2011/12 and 12/13 just under 34k. There is no surprise in that given that the club spent much of those seasons battling relegation, struggling and serving up some very poor football especially at home. It should also perhaps not been forgotten that the local area suffered more than most during the recession in terms of job losses. This season attendances average just under 37k which given the fact we have spent almost all of it in the bottom half of the league, with very poor home form, for me is very good. The fans have overall been excellent during a very difficult last few years. They have shown great patience especially during the games. They have at times let out their frustrations at full and half time but in the main been very supportive. I have never booed my team by the way but I don't have a problem defending those that do given some of the tripe we have served up. Edited February 7, 2014 by markavfc40 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I honestly don't know how you can say the fans have shown great patience during recent games - unfortunately that often isn't the case. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Lions_Roar Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 You could have predicted the posters who would blame the fans. Wonder if any of those moaning try to start chants or cheer loudly when others around are groaning? No one a blaming the fans, they're saying that the fans don't help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 If fan support made that much difference palace and Stoke would be challenging top 4 and Portsmouth would still be in the league. Considering the shit we've put out for nearly 4 years in a row I say fair play to the ones that keep coming back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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