Rovers13 Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 (edited) Martinez hasn't really done anything special at everton has he? Though they're spending a considerable amount on loans and short term signings that won't help them in the future, they aren't doing much better than they did the last couple years under moyes. And his Wigan teams were very weak at the back. I honestly have no issue with that if you score, Lamberts Norwich was the same way, but I think lambert is more pragmatic. That's possibly why villa stayed up even in a transition year over Wigan, who stuck to their style no matter what and didn't get the results Edited March 4, 2014 by Rovers13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 (edited) Martinez hasn't really done anything special at everton has he? Though they're spending a considerable amount on loans and short term signings that won't help them in the future, they aren't doing much better than they did the last couple years under moyes.I'm not really sure why we are now discussing Martinez in this thread (displacement activity?) but let's keep our perspective. Achieving the same performance with Everton as David Moyes did is pretty damned good. Wouldn't say no to Villa achieving that. Edited March 4, 2014 by briny_ear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Martinez hasn't really done anything special at everton has he? Though they're spending a considerable amount on loans and short term signings that won't help them in the future, they aren't doing much better than they did the last couple years under moyes. Well firstly, Moyes was considered to be doing a good job at Everton so I'm not sure why matching that would be looked down upon? Secondly, as we all know managing to mainstain your position whilst introducing a new philosophy is an achievement in itself. Finally, I don't understand these constant claims that the loan-deals will hurt them in the long-term. They may do but it depends on how Everton replace them and that is yet to be seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers13 Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Martinez hasn't really done anything special at everton has he? Though they're spending a considerable amount on loans and short term signings that won't help them in the future, they aren't doing much better than they did the last couple years under moyes.I'm not really sure why we are now discussing Martinez in this thread (displacement activity?) but let's keep our perspective. Achieving the same performance with Everton as David Moyes did is pretty damned good. Wouldn't say no to Villa achieving that. Someone posted a couple pages back (and I didn't realize there were a couple pages in between) about how the grass isn't always greener and then said Martinez might've struggled on the villa budget even though he is impressive at everton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Martinez would have taken us down last season, not because he's a bad manager (quite the opposite in my eyes by the way as I think he's a very skilled Manager) but because we do not have the playing staff to adapt to a passing game and there weren't the funds available for him to revamp the squad. I'd imagine that this is how he would have weighed it up too and therefore quite rightly decided to distance himself from us, in terms of club stature I think we would have been of immense interest to him. I still like Lambert though the initial excitement over his appointment has of course waned, for me if we finish 10th - 12th then there is some modicum of progress which is all we're really asking for, okay some of the performances, particularly at home have been abhorrent but then I'd imagine that every team south of Everton in the league could/would say the same as we've all struggled for consistency to some degree or another (Man Utd have had some awful home performances, likewise Newcastle and even Southampton, who have been much lauded again this season). Defence is tighter and although we've not scored as freely the goals have at least been shared around a bit more with Delph, El Ahmadi and Bacuna all chipping in with a few each. Easy to be more positive after winning a game 4-1 naturally but I do think we're progressing, just about, and given the documented reduction in wages etc we should hopefully find ourselves in a pretty decent position to attack the summer. I totally disagree, Martinez would not have taken us down. He wouldnt have signed anywhere near as much crap as Lambert has signed Oh right, so you think he would have had Baker, Delph, Albrighton, Agbonlahor etc etc playing a short sharp posession game do you? Or do you think he would have magic'd up £50M to completely replace the squad? Either way it's pure fantasy Was not it not great football that ended up keeping us safe last year. Our final 10 games saw a huge improvement in the football and the results. Could a better manager not have had us playing that way ealier? But our style did not change, it just became more effective toward the end of the season, as it may again this year. Under Martinez you'd be looking at a wholly different approach and one that with the squad the way it was 24 months ago would have been beyond us, no matter how well you coach them you're not going to get Baker, Clark, Agbonlahor, Albrighton etc playing tippy tappy posession football Not many teams do play tippy tappy football as you put it especially not in the premiership. The two exceptions are probably Arsenal and Swansea neither managed by Martinez so whats your point? It seems to me that your picking on another managers style of play to try and justify how great Lambert has done?! What nonsense!! First of all Martinez has done very little at Everton yet with one or two decent signing's has got them playing much better football than us and probably his predecessor(Moyes)- and without so called tippy tappy footballers!! Plus how many times have we beat everton this season?! What Martinez may have actually done at villa would be for a start actually play Albrighton instead of Wiemann who has been shit. Had the players more organised and introduced patterns of play that are actually more exciting than the dross we've been watching all season. We will never know though will we because it's all if's, but's and maybes?! So your statement in itself is pure fantasy!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Martinez hasn't really done anything special at everton has he? Though they're spending a considerable amount on loans and short term signings that won't help them in the future, they aren't doing much better than they did the last couple years under moyes. And his Wigan teams were very weak at the back. I honestly have no issue with that if you score, Lamberts Norwich was the same way, but I think lambert is more pragmatic. That's possibly why villa stayed up even in a transition year over Wigan, who stuck to their style no matter what and didn't get the results Wigan were punching above their weight for years just staying in the Premier League. They basically went from a non-league team in a predominantly rugby town, to playing in front of a few thousand people at Springfield Park, to a fully-fledged Premier League team when Whelan started to invest. A bit like in the early Jack Walker days for Blackburn, although Blackburn was always much more of a football town than Wigan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJVilla Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Martinez would have taken us down last season, not because he's a bad manager (quite the opposite in my eyes by the way as I think he's a very skilled Manager) but because we do not have the playing staff to adapt to a passing game and there weren't the funds available for him to revamp the squad. I'd imagine that this is how he would have weighed it up too and therefore quite rightly decided to distance himself from us, in terms of club stature I think we would have been of immense interest to him. I still like Lambert though the initial excitement over his appointment has of course waned, for me if we finish 10th - 12th then there is some modicum of progress which is all we're really asking for, okay some of the performances, particularly at home have been abhorrent but then I'd imagine that every team south of Everton in the league could/would say the same as we've all struggled for consistency to some degree or another (Man Utd have had some awful home performances, likewise Newcastle and even Southampton, who have been much lauded again this season). Defence is tighter and although we've not scored as freely the goals have at least been shared around a bit more with Delph, El Ahmadi and Bacuna all chipping in with a few each. Easy to be more positive after winning a game 4-1 naturally but I do think we're progressing, just about, and given the documented reduction in wages etc we should hopefully find ourselves in a pretty decent position to attack the summer. I totally disagree, Martinez would not have taken us down. He wouldnt have signed anywhere near as much crap as Lambert has signed Oh right, so you think he would have had Baker, Delph, Albrighton, Agbonlahor etc etc playing a short sharp posession game do you? Or do you think he would have magic'd up £50M to completely replace the squad? Either way it's pure fantasy Was not it not great football that ended up keeping us safe last year. Our final 10 games saw a huge improvement in the football and the results. Could a better manager not have had us playing that way ealier? But our style did not change, it just became more effective toward the end of the season, as it may again this year. Under Martinez you'd be looking at a wholly different approach and one that with the squad the way it was 24 months ago would have been beyond us, no matter how well you coach them you're not going to get Baker, Clark, Agbonlahor, Albrighton etc playing tippy tappy posession football Not many teams do play tippy tappy football as you put it especially not in the premiership. The two exceptions are probably Arsenal and Swansea neither managed by Martinez so whats your point? It seems to me that your picking on another managers style of play to try and justify how great Lambert has done?! What nonsense!! First of all Martinez has done very little at Everton yet with one or two decent signing's has got them playing much better football than us and probably his predecessor(Moyes)- and without so called tippy tappy footballers!! Plus how many times have we beat everton this season?! What Martinez may have actually done at villa would be for a start actually play Albrighton instead of Wiemann who has been shit. Had the players more organised and introduced patterns of play that are actually more exciting than the dross we've been watching all season. We will never know though will we because it's all if's, but's and maybes?! So your statement in itself is pure fantasy!! I think you'll find it was Martinez who implemented Swanseas style of play first before being replaced by Rodgers and Laudrup. Whether this is the right place to have this discussion (given that it's a thread about Lambert) initially I was concerned by the link with Martinez, but the more I thought about it, the more I thought it made sense. He'd have tried to play attractive football (whether it would've been successful would have been up for debate). He'd have had the same problems as Lambert in that he played with three centre halves and wing backs when he was at Wigan. Maybe he'd have bought better, maybe he'd have bought badly, who knows. What we do know is that Lambert is in charge of us, and at present he's just about doing enough to warrant another transfer window. Whether he deserves another three year contract, I'm still undecideds part of me wants to believe that he's the man to take us forward, but part of me thinks he hasn't quite got what it takes despite his education in the game. Whether that's his fault, or that of the owners remains to be seen. Sunday was a massive result for us and no one can take that away. In the context of the overall season, it papers over the cracks. Norwich went for it and we hit them on the break, which plays to our strengths. If Norwich sat back and made us try and break them down, would we have won? Would we have been able to force the result? That's a different question for a different day. For now, let's just enjoy the three points and look forward to hoping we can continue Mourinhos Villa Park hoodoo. It's just a shame that the bloody international friendlies get in the way of us trying to build some momentum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 I like how avfc1982am turns the sophisticated, skilful form of football known as "tika-taka" into "tippy tappy". is it the same thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 (edited) ...... Is this "tippy tappy" expression a derogatory description for the expansive game that the fans of "hoofball" use to camouflage their fetish? Edited March 4, 2014 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Ah okay, so if you call it 'tippy tappy' then you have to be a fan of 'hoofball'? Black and white thinking that is total hogwash. How many times? Just because you hold one opinion, doesn't mean that you believe in the total opposite. There are many differing opinions, not just 2. FWIW, tippy tappy refers to short passing with no end product. Different to 'tiki tika'. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 (edited) Ah okay, so if you call it 'tippy tappy' then you have to be a fan of 'hoofball'? Black and white thinking that is total hogwash. How many times? Just because you hold one opinion, doesn't mean that you believe in the total opposite. There are many differing opinions, not just 2. FWIW, tippy tappy refers to short passing with no end product. Different to 'tiki tika'. so if you score a few goals doing it, its not "tippy tappy".....oh I get it. i'll wait for the next description. Edited March 4, 2014 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Not sure if serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Not sure if serious. just joking 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Different to 'tiki tika'. I think they may sell that in my local curryhouse but "tiki tika" has no place in the premier league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers13 Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 ...... Is this "tippy tappy" expression a derogatory description for the expansive game that the fans of "hoofball" use to camouflage their fetish? Is anyone really a fan of hoofball? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 So that paul lambert fella Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordSepulchrave Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Whilst I do rate Martinez, I feel like people are forgetting amongst the disaster that is Man Utd just how good a job Moyes did with Everton. Martinez's Everton play well, are dangerous, but are drawing way too much and not-quite there in their quest for the top 4. Just like Moyes's Everton. And it's not as if Moyes had them play long ball football either - it was a good balance between physicality and skill, and their style of play was certainly miles ahead than the slow and timid stuff we're seeing with him at Utd. Martinez took over a very strong, very stable side with Everton. I don't like loans too - short term fixes, and ones that are probably more expensive than they are worth in Everton's case unless they can snatch a place in the top 4. It's difficult to say if Martinez would have done that much better a job than Lambert, but it's probably more worthwhile discussing valid replacements than angst over what-could-have-been. Not that I want him to be replaced - I'd like to see us be patient with Lambert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 ...... Is this "tippy tappy" expression a derogatory description for the expansive game that the fans of "hoofball" use to camouflage their fetish? Is anyone really a fan of hoofball? The ones who call pass and move football...."tippy tappy" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 ...... Is this "tippy tappy" expression a derogatory description for the expansive game that the fans of "hoofball" use to camouflage their fetish? Is anyone really a fan of hoofball? The ones who call pass and move football...."tippy tappy" Oh bugger off with that black and white thinking. It's a load of nonsense. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Well to be honest I can't stand possession for possessions sake football and I'm by no means a fan of hoofball 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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