HeyAnty Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 how good is the spine of the club that he has built? At full strength you have Guzan Vlaar Okore Delph Sanchez Gil Benteke.. who are all valuable and some of them have probably tripled what we paid for them. It really is quite a decent squad. The squad harmony seems good.. they seem to back the manager.. despite some awful results it never seems to be by the lack of trying. It is one of the reasons why i dont hate PL and i think i can say the same for many others. I still dont think hes the right man for the job however with Randy's record and financial status i honestly dont think we can bring anyone in that will do better at the moment. I really really really hope he can turn it around and prove us all wrong. Tactically he seemed alot sharper at Norwich but his insistence on the diamond formation really is hurting us. He switched it at half time and we seem to play really well in the second half versus Bournemouth. I know its only Bournemouth but i think 'Gilly' really has lifted the squad. They must see him do all sorts of fancy tricks in training and are probably boosted by his presence. Wiemann linked up so well with him.. i really hope we see the Wiemann of old as he didnt score 13 goals in his first season by doing nothing. He makes great runs and when confident is a good finisher. Leave Wiemann upfront... play Gilly wide.. Leave Westwood or Cleverley on the bench and we may just climb the ladder and stay up. I just wish Randy gave him another 5-6 million this January to help the squad a bit more as i fear when Gil gets injured we will be back at square one. ------------------------Guzan------------------------ Hutton------Vlaar-------Okore-------Cissohko ----------------Sanchez------Delph--------------- Bacuna------------------------------------------GIl (they can switch and ideally Grealish for Bacuna but that wont happen soon) ------------Benteke--------Wiemann------------ Bench: Given Clark Kozak Agbonalhor Grealish Senderos Cleverley Westwood Alternatively: ------------------------Guzan------------------------ Hutton------Vlaar-------Okore-------Cissohko ---------------------Sanchez--------------------- -------Delph-----------------------Gil---------- Agbonalhor---------------------------Wiemann ---------------------Benteke----------------------- At full strength we arent a bad side. We really really need a wide player though. Possibly another quality striker to really push on. Not sure if its the win or the Delph news (keeping 15 million asset) on our books but i feel positive. Lets hope we can get a few more results and push on. Very good post KSV. I've always thought PL was the man for the job and haven’t changed my view, (even though he is hard to defend at times when he consistently picks Gabby). From the way I see it, he is building a TEAM at Villa. I emphasize the word TEAM because there are allot of managers who can get results, but haven’t assembled a unit, long term that won’t get you anywhere at a club with the finances we have. In adding to that, there is no way Delph would have signed a new contract if the extremly strong bond wasn’t there among the team. Lambert has to take full credit for this. I know the progress is slow, allot slower than most fans wish to see, but I do see light at the end of the tunnel. There are numerous reasons why it is slow which have been battered out on here: money available, club structure, up for sale etc etc, mistakes made by everyone including PL. Remember, we were shockingly defensively last season, now we are very good, we cant score goals this season, whos to say we wont be able to defend and score goals next season? Rome wasn’t built in a day as they say, but I can see the foundations being set for a very successful side. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 For me it will take a pretty special end to the season to get me back on side with the manager. When I look at the squad and the 11 he can put out I actually think the squad has the potential to do that. I'm just not sure the manager does. He is going to have to get into the top half for me, and get some bloody goals going in for me to even start slightly warming to him. He has been bloody awful so far since he joined We were awful for quite a while before he joined, though. How quickly we forget. There's no way we finish lower than 13th if everyone stays fit, and that's some achievement for a team that's effectively gone more than half a season without a striker. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 For me it will take a pretty special end to the season to get me back on side with the manager. When I look at the squad and the 11 he can put out I actually think the squad has the potential to do that. I'm just not sure the manager does. He is going to have to get into the top half for me, and get some bloody goals going in for me to even start slightly warming to him. He has been bloody awful so far since he joined We were awful for quite a while before he joined, though. How quickly we forget. There's no way we finish lower than 13th if everyone stays fit, and that's some achievement for a team that's effectively gone more than half a season without a striker. Really. Someone had better contact AVFC and tell them to amend their web site then as they have got 7 players listed masquerading as strikers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazzap24 Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 (edited) I'm pretty much on the same bus as KSV and HeyAnty. Right now I would still replace him if the right man was available to come in, but I can see beyond the shit results and there are definite signs of positive progress - off the field at least. With the signing of Gill and Delph's new deal, wouldn't it be great for all of us (the fans, team and Lambert) if Lerner actually recognised this could be a turning point and allowed Lambert to bring in one decent 'marquee' signing before the window closed? I refuse to believe the finances are still so bad that we can't muster up £10-15m for a decent player and their wages. I've heard/read these snippets about Fox admitting the backing hasn't been enough - well it's ok admitting that, but it won't get any better unless it feckin changes! You could really make a difference here Randolph, so stop **** around and get your wallet out. Never mind the bright future and jam tomorrow - give us something to be positive about NOW. Edited January 27, 2015 by wazzap24 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 From the way I see it, he is building a TEAM at Villa. I emphasize the word TEAM because there are allot of managers who can get results, but haven’t assembled a unit, long term that won’t get you anywhere at a club with the finances we have. He has assembled a good team but that's only half the job. I'd like to see this team under the right manager. At the moment I've seen very little to suggest its Lambert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 For me it will take a pretty special end to the season to get me back on side with the manager. When I look at the squad and the 11 he can put out I actually think the squad has the potential to do that. I'm just not sure the manager does. He is going to have to get into the top half for me, and get some bloody goals going in for me to even start slightly warming to him. He has been bloody awful so far since he joined We were awful for quite a while before he joined, though. How quickly we forget. There's no way we finish lower than 13th if everyone stays fit, and that's some achievement for a team that's effectively gone more than half a season without a striker. Really. Someone had better contact AVFC and tell them to amend their web site then as they have got 7 players listed masquerading as strikers! Also benteke missed 6 premier league games. He's played in 16 of our 22 games. Is that half a season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 From the way I see it, he is building a TEAM at Villa. I emphasize the word TEAM because there are allot of managers who can get results, but haven’t assembled a unit, long term that won’t get you anywhere at a club with the finances we have. He has assembled a good team but that's only half the job. I'd like to see this team under the right manager. At the moment I've seen very little to suggest its Lambert. Which is fair, but I genuinely think football fans expect too much too quickly. Not saying that Lambert is doing well or is necessarily the right man, but it's only his third season at a club that has undergone a complete overhaul. People will say "100 games <x> points" etc which, again, is fair, but it's actually a pretty small timescale in the grand scheme of things when rebuilding. I did think this season would be better and have become fairly disillusioned with how poor we are at scoring, but there have been small signs of doing the right things throughout Lambert's reign imo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 27, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted January 27, 2015 My hope is, everytime I've swayed into the Lambert Out camp (which is only 3 times as far as I remember) he's almost immediately gone on a mini renaissance and made me change my mind back. So here's hoping he does it again! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 People will say "100 games <x> points" etc which, again, is fair, but it's actually a pretty small timescale in the grand scheme of things when rebuilding. I disagree. I think 100 games is a pretty long time to show something about your managerial skills. I'd be very surprised if there are many managers who have as bad a record as Lambert over a 100 game period at a club, as I imagine the vast majority would be sacked way before it reached 100 points. I also think the whole rebuild project is exaggerated slightly. When I look at our current strongest starting 11, 7 of them were here from close to the time Lambert first arrived. I think his limited budget, resulting in a few dud buys makes it look more difficult than it had to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 (edited) People will say "100 games <x> points" etc which, again, is fair, but it's actually a pretty small timescale in the grand scheme of things when rebuilding. I disagree. I think 100 games is a pretty long time to show something about your managerial skills. I'd be very surprised if there are many managers who have as bad a record as Lambert over a 100 game period at a club, as I imagine the vast majority would be sacked way before it reached 100 points. I also think the whole rebuild project is exaggerated slightly. When I look at our current strongest starting 11, 7 of them were here from close to the time Lambert first arrived. I think his limited budget, resulting in a few dud buys makes it look more difficult than it had to be. Then we purely disagree on whether or not he's shown something - I think he has, but it's been nowhere near consistent enough. That said, our squad hasn't been that consistent either (take a look at the change in first team at the start of each season). I'm not entirely sure what the bit in bold is trying to get at. Are you trying to say that he inherited a couple of players he was happy with, added some more until getting 7 players he was happy with and has then had to add a further 4 more this season (or, roughly 36% of his first team)? If so, surely that's still a pretty big change each season and 3 seasons down the line? It really has been a rebuilding project since day one - it's not even remotely exaggerated. If anything, it's hugely downplayed by his biggest critics. I understand people saying they want/expected more from it, fine, but to deny it is just silly. Edited January 27, 2015 by bobzy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Straying into same old same old territory here in the debate and to be honest while I'm still happy about the last weekend result and performance I'll do what I promised myself i wouldnt and contribute to it When he arrived the club were performing badly and hemorrhaging money He had to keep us in the league (short term) and reshape a squad without spending much He had to continue to keep us in the league and build a team to compete higher (medium term) and develop the squad He then had to build on that and bring better quality in the squad (long term) either through limited investment or player trading Short term 1-3 years Medium term 2-5 years Long term 3+ years He had to achieve that with 1. An owner going awol and putting the club on the market 2. A CEO being replaced 3. Losing assistant managers 4. Long term injuries to key players that would either be traded or help to develop the team while they were still here 5. A supporter base who, while very patient, were in the main looking for more instant turn around given the history and stature of the club 6. A club that when he joined were heading in one direction, had no consistent approach, no playing philosophy. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan501 Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 (edited) For me lambert needs another creative player a winger and a striker on loan or permanent it dosnt matter. Fact is we must carve out chances and win sawnsea qpr and burnley at home failiure and were down when were at home we must put pressure on and take our chances. Gil is a very good player on his 2 games we must not allow teams to dictate to us at home. Paul lambert must get it right and quickly. Edited January 27, 2015 by villan501 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 For me lambert needs another creative player a winger and a striker on loan or permanent it dosnt matter. Fact is we must carve out cgances and win sawnsea qpr and burnley at home failiure and were down when were at gome we must put pressure on and take our chances. Gil is a very good player on his 2 games we must not allow teams to dictate to us at home. was your use of G where it should have been H in homage to Carles ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcowans21 Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 For me lambert needs another creative player a winger and a striker on loan or permanent it dosnt matter. Fact is we must carve out cgances and win sawnsea qpr and burnley at home failiure and were down when were at gome we must put pressure on and take our chances. Gil is a very good player on his 2 games we must not allow teams to dictate to us at home. was your use of G where it should have been H in homage to Carles ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Richard, I can't quote for some reason, but I agree with most of your points apart from the last two. I think the supporters have been pretty patient. 5 and 6 are linked imo. I think why fans have been the way they have been in the last few months is because there is still no consistency in our approach and we still seem to be heading downwards. There is improvement in the playing squad but improvement on the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 For me it will take a pretty special end to the season to get me back on side with the manager. When I look at the squad and the 11 he can put out I actually think the squad has the potential to do that. I'm just not sure the manager does. He is going to have to get into the top half for me, and get some bloody goals going in for me to even start slightly warming to him. He has been bloody awful so far since he joined We were awful for quite a while before he joined, though. How quickly we forget. There's no way we finish lower than 13th if everyone stays fit, and that's some achievement for a team that's effectively gone more than half a season without a striker. Really. Someone had better contact AVFC and tell them to amend their web site then as they have got 7 players listed masquerading as strikers! Also benteke missed 6 premier league games. He's played in 16 of our 22 games. Is that half a season? Thanks for the valuable input. The key to understanding my point is now underlined. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 For me it will take a pretty special end to the season to get me back on side with the manager. When I look at the squad and the 11 he can put out I actually think the squad has the potential to do that. I'm just not sure the manager does. He is going to have to get into the top half for me, and get some bloody goals going in for me to even start slightly warming to him. He has been bloody awful so far since he joined We were awful for quite a while before he joined, though. How quickly we forget. There's no way we finish lower than 13th if everyone stays fit, and that's some achievement for a team that's effectively gone more than half a season without a striker. I always try and forget that McLeish was here for a year, for me there has been no improvement since McLeish. McLeish was given one year, Lambert is now in year 3 and it is still no better however I believe the squad is now better than when McLeish was here. A better squad but worse results. No that can only be down to management/coaching which is why I firmly believe a massive overhaul is needed. A new manager with a fresh approach, new ideas and some tactical nous would be a start, an assistant manager who is not a complete bell end would be great and some new 1st team coaches need to be bought in too. 100+ games is a long time, long enough to implement a stategy and a style of play. We dont have either of these, the original strategy was abandoned and after 5 mins of watching Bayern train Lambert has decided to start something else all together with style of play. Im afraid apart from being able to pick up a decent player here and there Lambert is terrible of all other aspects of being a manager. A scrappy 2-1 win against a much changed Bournemouth team is not exactly a turning point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dn1982 Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Straying into same old same old territory here in the debate and to be honest while I'm still happy about the last weekend result and performance I'll do what I promised myself i wouldnt and contribute to it When he arrived the club were performing badly and hemorrhaging money He had to keep us in the league (short term) and reshape a squad without spending much He had to continue to keep us in the league and build a team to compete higher (medium term) and develop the squad He then had to build on that and bring better quality in the squad (long term) either through limited investment or player trading Short term 1-3 years Medium term 2-5 years Long term 3+ years He had to achieve that with 1. An owner going awol and putting the club on the market 2. A CEO being replaced 3. Losing assistant managers 4. Long term injuries to key players that would either be traded or help to develop the team while they were still here 5. A supporter base who, while very patient, were in the main looking for more instant turn around given the history and stature of the club 6. A club that when he joined were heading in one direction, had no consistent approach, no playing philosophy. Just for clarification. When did the owner go AWOL? The club has been for sale for 6 months. What effect did replacing the CEO have on the pitch? Losing assistant managers? Who picked them in the first place? Number 4 I agree he has been unlucky with injuries last year to our strikers but this year? Vlaar was always going to struggle after a WC. Cole is always carrying a niggle and if it wasn't for other CB injuries we wouldn't have seen Okore at all. As for the last 2 Lambert has been given the easiest time of any manager I've known. You say we was heading in one direction whereas I'd say with have stagnated on 38-42 pts for 4 years. There hasn't been any improvement. He is also in charge of the playing philosophy which after 2 1/2 years he's decided to change! I agree with the change but it was still his approach. I hope we go to Arsenal and keep the current philosophy of trying to keep the ball but not be afraid to go long if that's what the game needs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I always try and forget that McLeish was here for a year, for me there has been no improvement since McLeish. McLeish was given one year, Lambert is now in year 3 and it is still no better however I believe the squad is now better than when McLeish was here. A better squad but worse results. No that can only be down to management/coaching which is why I firmly believe a massive overhaul is needed. A new manager with a fresh approach, new ideas and some tactical nous would be a start, an assistant manager who is not a complete bell end would be great and some new 1st team coaches need to be bought in too. 100+ games is a long time, long enough to implement a stategy and a style of play. We dont have either of these, the original strategy was abandoned and after 5 mins of watching Bayern train Lambert has decided to start something else all together with style of play. Im afraid apart from being able to pick up a decent player here and there Lambert is terrible of all other aspects of being a manager. A scrappy 2-1 win against a much changed Bournemouth team is not exactly a turning point. I think you're losing sight of a few things. Lambert has, in fact, improved things. It's just that this improvement has been 1. Slow because of the limited funds and 2. Masked by appalling luck with injuries. When Benteke (or any of our other strikers) starts scoring actual goals again it will be obvious how much we've improved. Lambert wisely chose to focus on the defence and defensive midfielder roles in the summer. It was a success: Our defence is really good. I really don't buy into the argument about tactics. I think 99% of fans judge your tactics purely on results, and those depend far more on which players you have and which of them are fit and in form. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyAnty Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 For me it will take a pretty special end to the season to get me back on side with the manager. When I look at the squad and the 11 he can put out I actually think the squad has the potential to do that. I'm just not sure the manager does. He is going to have to get into the top half for me, and get some bloody goals going in for me to even start slightly warming to him. He has been bloody awful so far since he joined We were awful for quite a while before he joined, though. How quickly we forget. There's no way we finish lower than 13th if everyone stays fit, and that's some achievement for a team that's effectively gone more than half a season without a striker. Really. Someone had better contact AVFC and tell them to amend their web site then as they have got 7 players listed masquerading as strikers! Also benteke missed 6 premier league games. He's played in 16 of our 22 games. Is that half a season? Really, im not going to check but i never would have thought Benteke only missed 6 prem games this season. Sure was he not sent off at least not mind the injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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