pacbuddies Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I think we should be 12th 10th because the likes of Benteke, Vlaar, Delph, Sanchez, Okore and Guzan are good players and that spine is no worse than a number of clubs and capable of far, far more. Lambert has been restricted in what he can spend, as have Swansea, an significantly smaller club, yet we can't compete on the pitch with them. It also doesn't explain away Lambert tactical inefficiencies. How do we play? What is our means of breaking a side down? Why has there been no improvement in two and half years in style of play or quality of football? We have gone from ineffective lumping to ineffective square passing. It's nowhere near good enough and that is down to the manager that is clearly out they're depth. What are they good players based on? Benteke has scored goals (for the same manager) in one season - next to sod all else. Delph has played for Villa and produced next to nothing. Sanchez wasn't even heard of until the World Cup; same as Vlaar really (a Dutch guy I know ridicules him from his time in Holland; I've always said he's wrong). Okore has this season come back from a bad injury - having previously played in Denmark. Guzan now looks a good keeper... one that was released by Aston Villa. In short, there's absolutely no basis for this "we should be at least 10th/12th" message that people are saying. None at all. None of these players have achieved this in the Premier League. None. I just don't understand where people are getting this "should be at least 10th" stuff from. I think the time has come for Lambert to go, but some of the chat on here is as if we're bottom of the Premier League by a significant margin with no hope of getting out. We haven't been in the relegation zone all season - and unless Hull beat Man City away, we won't be in there having played Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool twice. If we don't see an upturn at all by the end of March then I'll join in with this panic. Until then, though....? Hilarious that people think there is "no harm" in protesting and creating an even more toxic atmosphere by the way. How can that even be the case? You've changed your tune, back at the end of October you were giving him until Christmas and if no improvement then he should go. Now it's the end of March. Talk about moving the goalposts! You are the master of reading what you want to read. He clearly said he thinks Lambert should go. He's talking about the end of March being when he'll panic about relegation. Not really, I read it quite well thank you. If the belief is that Lambert should go now (or at Christmas as he originally said) then surely it is because him staying is likely to lead to failure and thus the 'panicking' (although I think this is a poor choice of word) should be now and not at the end of March. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 6, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted February 6, 2015 Not really, I read it quite well thank you. If the belief is that Lambert should go now (or at Christmas as he originally said) then surely it is because him staying is likely to lead to failure and thus the 'panicking' (although I think this is a poor choice of word) should be now and not at the end of March. You clearly didn't because your reply makes no sense if you had read the part that said he already wants Lambert sacked. Hell of an assumption you've made there. If you believe that Lambert will get us relegated then you should panic right now. If, like me and it would appear bobzy, you believe that we'll stay up under Lambert but he should still be sacked then why would we be panicking? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I think we should be 12th 10th because the likes of Benteke, Vlaar, Delph, Sanchez, Okore and Guzan are good players and that spine is no worse than a number of clubs and capable of far, far more. Lambert has been restricted in what he can spend, as have Swansea, an significantly smaller club, yet we can't compete on the pitch with them. It also doesn't explain away Lambert tactical inefficiencies. How do we play? What is our means of breaking a side down? Why has there been no improvement in two and half years in style of play or quality of football? We have gone from ineffective lumping to ineffective square passing. It's nowhere near good enough and that is down to the manager that is clearly out they're depth. What are they good players based on? Benteke has scored goals (for the same manager) in one season - next to sod all else. Delph has played for Villa and produced next to nothing. Sanchez wasn't even heard of until the World Cup; same as Vlaar really (a Dutch guy I know ridicules him from his time in Holland; I've always said he's wrong). Okore has this season come back from a bad injury - having previously played in Denmark. Guzan now looks a good keeper... one that was released by Aston Villa. In short, there's absolutely no basis for this "we should be at least 10th/12th" message that people are saying. None at all. None of these players have achieved this in the Premier League. None. I just don't understand where people are getting this "should be at least 10th" stuff from. I think the time has come for Lambert to go, but some of the chat on here is as if we're bottom of the Premier League by a significant margin with no hope of getting out. We haven't been in the relegation zone all season - and unless Hull beat Man City away, we won't be in there having played Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool twice. If we don't see an upturn at all by the end of March then I'll join in with this panic. Until then, though....? Hilarious that people think there is "no harm" in protesting and creating an even more toxic atmosphere by the way. How can that even be the case? You've changed your tune, back at the end of October you were giving him until Christmas and if no improvement then he should go. Now it's the end of March. Talk about moving the goalposts! Was it the "I think the time has come for Lambert go" that you've had particular trouble with here? I've made it bold and in large for you, just in case you missed it. **** off with your personal vendetta. It's **** tiring. Read my reply to Steveo. There is no need for your personal abuse. This is a forum where we debate, argue and agree or disagree. I have no personal vendetta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I think we should be 12th 10th because the likes of Benteke, Vlaar, Delph, Sanchez, Okore and Guzan are good players and that spine is no worse than a number of clubs and capable of far, far more. Lambert has been restricted in what he can spend, as have Swansea, an significantly smaller club, yet we can't compete on the pitch with them. It also doesn't explain away Lambert tactical inefficiencies. How do we play? What is our means of breaking a side down? Why has there been no improvement in two and half years in style of play or quality of football? We have gone from ineffective lumping to ineffective square passing. It's nowhere near good enough and that is down to the manager that is clearly out they're depth. What are they good players based on? Benteke has scored goals (for the same manager) in one season - next to sod all else. Delph has played for Villa and produced next to nothing. Sanchez wasn't even heard of until the World Cup; same as Vlaar really (a Dutch guy I know ridicules him from his time in Holland; I've always said he's wrong). Okore has this season come back from a bad injury - having previously played in Denmark. Guzan now looks a good keeper... one that was released by Aston Villa. In short, there's absolutely no basis for this "we should be at least 10th/12th" message that people are saying. None at all. None of these players have achieved this in the Premier League. None. I just don't understand where people are getting this "should be at least 10th" stuff from. I think the time has come for Lambert to go, but some of the chat on here is as if we're bottom of the Premier League by a significant margin with no hope of getting out. We haven't been in the relegation zone all season - and unless Hull beat Man City away, we won't be in there having played Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool twice. If we don't see an upturn at all by the end of March then I'll join in with this panic. Until then, though....? Hilarious that people think there is "no harm" in protesting and creating an even more toxic atmosphere by the way. How can that even be the case? You've changed your tune, back at the end of October you were giving him until Christmas and if no improvement then he should go. Now it's the end of March. Talk about moving the goalposts! Was it the "I think the time has come for Lambert go" that you've had particular trouble with here? I've made it bold and in large for you, just in case you missed it. **** off with your personal vendetta. It's **** tiring. Read my reply to Steveo. There is no need for your personal abuse. This is a forum where we debate, argue and agree or disagree. I have no personal vendetta. There's no debate, arguing or disagreement here. You're just putting words in my mouth (in this instance) and trying to point score. Pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 (edited) What's your short term plan, one that won't be detrimental to the players performance? Get rid of Lambert by any means necessary! Well said. No, not well said at all. That's not a plan, that's an aim. How are you achieving that without it having a detrimental effect on the players? Remembering that we can't go "throwing" games. Every single one is a cup final, to use said cliché. What's the plan? What is the current plan then? You see aiming or attempting to get rid of something that is more detrimental to the team if continued is actually part of the short term plan you mention- First you stop the bleeding, then you treat the wound. Can you understand that? Does anyone think anything on the pitch at the moment looks like a progressive plan that Lambert is masterminding? It's more like groundhog day and an experiment that continually fails and only the person carrying it out believes it will eventually come good. Nearly everyone else has just lost faith in the man or are just pissed off at the incompetence of him. It's easy to drop the whole "every game is a cup final" phrase, we've had that shit for 4 years now. The bottom line is Lambert and the players aren't playing like they are in cup finals weekly, in fact they've been as you put it, "throwing" games away on a weekly basis. Also any notion that the fan's are now responsible for players and managers performances in the last 15 games is total nonsense. Getting behind them for the last 3 years which most of us have done under Lambert's tenure has had absolutely zero impact in terms of progression or pulling out results. And as I said previously the players can differenciate between criticisms of themselves and the management. The problem is with Lambert not the players and believe me as much as they may like him do you honestly think they believe in what his is doing or able to implement it? Any action to rid the club of Lambert asap is a good start to any plan, in my opinion. Edited February 6, 2015 by avfc1982am 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 What's your short term plan, one that won't be detrimental to the players performance? Get rid of Lambert by any means necessary! Well said. No, not well said at all. That's not a plan, that's an aim. How are you achieving that without it having a detrimental effect on the players? Remembering that we can't go "throwing" games. Every single one is a cup final, to use said cliché. What's the plan? What is the current plan then? You see aiming or attempting to get rid of something that is more detrimental to the team if continued is actually part of the short term plan you mention- First you stop the bleeding, then you treat the wound. Can you understand that? Do anyone think anything on the pitch at the moment looks like a progressive plan that Lambert is masterminding? It's more like groundhog day and an experiment that continually fails and only the person carrying it out believes it will eventually come good. Nearly everyone else has just lost faith in the man or are just pissed off at the incompetence of him. It's easy to drop the whole "every game is a cup final" phrase, we've had that shit for 4 years now. The bottom line is Lambert and the players aren't playing like they are in cup finals weekly, in fact they've been as you put it, "throwing" games away on a weekly basis. Also any notion that the fan's are now responsible for players and managers performances in the last 15 games is total nonsense. Getting behind them for the last 3 years which most of us have done under Lambert's tenure has had absolutely zero impact in terms of progression or pulling out results. And as I said previously the players can differenciate between criticisms of themselves and the management. The problem is with Lambert not the players and believe me as much as they may like him do you honestly think they believe in what his is doing or able to implement it? Any action to rid the club of Lambert asap is a good start to any plan, in my opinion. Couldn't agree more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 We could still do with a poll. Forget all that should he go now or wait until the end of the season mess. Just a straight forward sack him or keep him. I'd be amazed if there was less than 75% said sack him. Think the percentage would be up nearer to 85-90% personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudevillaisnice Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I think he should go at the end of the season regardless. Even if our form picks up I won't be convinced now - we're just too prone to collapses under him. Agree. It's got to the stage even if he does manage to turn it around I still want him out as it will just happen again and again with him in charge. He has enough time in my opinion, I don't see him succeeding here long term even if circumstances change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted February 6, 2015 Moderator Share Posted February 6, 2015 Realistically though, if Lambert keeps us up, how likely do you think it will be that Lerner gets rid of him in that situation? I think at the very least we would have to go down before Lerner would pull the trigger, and even then I'm not sure it's an absolute guarantee that he would do it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I think at the very least we would have to go down before Lerner would pull the trigger, and even then I'm not sure it's an absolute guarantee that he would do it. Thats my worry, Im pinning on my hopes that he resigns, I think that is a more likely outcome personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudevillaisnice Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Realistically though, if Lambert keeps us up, how likely do you think it will be that Lerner gets rid of him in that situation? I think at the very least we would have to go down before Lerner would pull the trigger, and even then I'm not sure it's an absolute guarantee that he would do it. Well as above I actually hope he resigns. He seems to be fed up fighting relegation year on year so hopefully he will just walk away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 (edited) I actually think we're more likely to see Lambert go through a takeover of the club rather than him being sacked by Lerner/resigning. Edited February 6, 2015 by Mantis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Some may think this squad should be around 10th others may disagree. But surely we all agree that there should have been some improvement. After his 3rd season in charge we really should be looking forward rather than going backwards and still worrying. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Some may think this squad should be around 10th others may disagree. But surely we all agree that there should have been some improvement. After his 3rd season in charge we really should be looking forward rather than going backwards and still worrying. Yes, I think we all agree with this. I, personally, disagree with the amount of crisis talk that is being mentioned, though. If we have a decent end of season, we once again finish lower-mid-table and there's a realistic chance that we have our best finish under Lambert this season. Bizarre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Risso Posted February 6, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted February 6, 2015 "We can look to the future with real optimism." "I knew the first two years would be tough but we've made progress and now we're beginning to see the benefits of all of that hard work," added Lambert. "We're in a much healthier position on and off the pitch. "The bar had to be raised, everyone has stepped up and there will be continued improvement." Paul Lambert's words after signing his new contract. No excuses about lack of money, or having to buy lower league players, just a cast iron statement that "there will be continued improvement". There hasn't been. You've failed Paul. You're an appalling manager, while you've still got an ounce of self-respect left, resign. If you don't, you deserve all of the stick and more that's going to be heading your way. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffy Biro Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Realistically though, if Lambert keeps us up, how likely do you think it will be that Lerner gets rid of him in that situation? I think at the very least we would have to go down before Lerner would pull the trigger, and even then I'm not sure it's an absolute guarantee that he would do it. Yea i said it earlier in the thread, while Lerner is here so is Lambert imo, he's done a really poor job for 3 years now and he's stuck with him. I don't see that changing even if we were relegated infact even more so when were relegated. He'll just point to his great record in promotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 while you've still got an ounce of self-respect left, resign. If you don't, you deserve all of the stick and more that's going to be heading your way. Tantamount to bully boy tactics right there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 We could still do with a poll. Forget all that should he go now or wait until the end of the season mess. Just a straight forward sack him or keep him. I'd be amazed if there was less than 75% said sack him. Think the percentage would be up nearer to 85-90% personally. I think you do need the nuances, though, because there could be a good number that, although wanting him gone, may think that that particular course of action has been left too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 while you've still got an ounce of self-respect left, resign. If you don't, you deserve all of the stick and more that's going to be heading your way. Tantamount to bully boy tactics right there It's just football fans reacting as they always do to terrible managers who have outstayed their welcome. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 (edited) while you've still got an ounce of self-respect left, resign. If you don't, you deserve all of the stick and more that's going to be heading your way.Tantamount to bully boy tactics right there Yet I don't seem to recall the same level of condemnation when it was directed at the likes of O'Leary, Houllier and McLeish. Edited February 6, 2015 by Isa 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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