Mantis Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 (edited) It was only really a bit of last season that was bad. If we can maintain similar form that we did up until March last season and avoid another Christmas and end of season collapse we'll be fine. Err...no. After the Southampton victory in November we amassed just 19 points in 24 games. So basically we were crap for about two-thirds of the season. Any season in which you finish below 40 points has been an utterly atrocious one. Actually, yes. In mid March when we'd just beaten Chelsea we had 34 points from 29 games. If we'd carried on the average points per game ratio we had up to that point for the rest of the season we would've finished on around 44/45 points. That's why I said that it was only really the last bit that was bad because if it wasn't for that it would've been an ok albeit unspectacular season. It's a complete myth that we were bad for most of the season - we were just really really bad at the very end and over Christmas. We were crap for about a third of the season and ok for the rest. If we can avoid collapses like that this season then we'll be fine. I never said the season wasn't atrocious overall, I was just pointing out that rather than being consistently bad across the entire season we seemed to suffer from a couple of very damaging but relatively short collapses. Edited August 3, 2014 by Mantis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 It was only really a bit of last season that was bad. If we can maintain similar form that we did up until March last season and avoid another Christmas and end of season collapse we'll be fine. Completely disagree. We got some results early doors but besides than a handful of games our performances all season were woeful. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 It was only really a bit of last season that was bad. If we can maintain similar form that we did up until March last season and avoid another Christmas and end of season collapse we'll be fine. Completely disagree. We got some results early doors but besides than a handful of games our performances all season were woeful. Disagree. We weren't great for a lot of the season but that bad either, it was just that December (after Southampton) and then from late March onwards that the team really let themselves down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 It was only really a bit of last season that was bad. If we can maintain similar form that we did up until March last season and avoid another Christmas and end of season collapse we'll be fine. Completely disagree. We got some results early doors but besides than a handful of games our performances all season were woeful. Disagree. We weren't great for a lot of the season but that bad either, it was just that December (after Southampton) and then from late March onwards that the team really let themselves down. We had the likes of crystal palace getting the double over us. We struggled to create anything in most games, and defensively we were awful. The midfield barely imposed themselves in a game. For me that is poor and not good enough. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Isa Posted August 3, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted August 3, 2014 (edited) Like I say, 19 points from 24 games suggests a poor run of form over a long period. It's all very well saying "if we didn't have this and that collapse" but we did and they were significant ones at that, rather than a couple of blips as you are portraying. By the same ground I could say "but if we didn't win those back-to-back Norwich and Chelsea games" or "if we didn't have a decent start to the season" etc. Or similarly you could say "but if Fulham didn't have that eight-game losing streak they might have stayed up". Finishing below 40 points is relegation standard and means you have been in poor form for a large portion of the season. There is simply no other way to spin it. Edited August 3, 2014 by Isa 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordSepulchrave Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 (edited) Although I suspect this is all just semantic quibbling, I'm with Mantis on this one - we were insipid to decent and basically effective for most of the season, but after the Chelsea win everything went horribly wrong. Still would have been enough to make Lambert's position basically untenable, I reckon, were it not for the Lerner situation. Edited August 3, 2014 by LordSepulchrave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 (edited) It was only really a bit of last season that was bad. If we can maintain similar form that we did up until March last season and avoid another Christmas and end of season collapse we'll be fine. Completely disagree. We got some results early doors but besides than a handful of games our performances all season were woeful. Disagree. We weren't great for a lot of the season but that bad either, it was just that December (after Southampton) and then from late March onwards that the team really let themselves down. We had the likes of crystal palace getting the double over us. We struggled to create anything in most games, and defensively we were awful. The midfield barely imposed themselves in a game. For me that is poor and not good enough. The fact that Crystal Palace did the double over us is meaningless really - what matters at the end of the day are points totals and the final position. I certainly never denied that we had bad games. Like I say, 19 points from 24 games suggests a poor run of form over a long period. It's all very well saying "if we didn't have this and that collapse" but we did and they were significant ones at that, rather than a couple of blips as you are portraying. By the same ground I could say "but if we didn't win those back-to-back Norwich and Chelsea games" or "if we didn't have a decent start to the season" etc. Or similarly you could say "but if Fulham didn't have that eight-game losing streak they might have stayed up". Finishing below 40 points is relegation standard and means you have been in poor form for a large portion of the season. There is simply no other way to spin it. And like I said, 34 points from 29 games (which is the position we were in in mid-March) is ok although nothing to shout about. You can bang on about the 24 games all you like but the fact is that in mid-March with the majority of the season gone we'd had an ok season. This is why I mentioned the collapse at the end (which by the way I never made out to be a blip). I'm not trying to argue that the season was decent because it clearly wasn't, I'm pointing out that what made the season a poor one was RELATIVELY short periods of really awful form rather than consistent bad form over the course of the season. I get the impression that with this team there's a tendency for things to snowball, that's why I think that if we can avoid any major collapses we'll be fine just so long as we can snuff out bad runs before they get really bad. No, it doesn't necessarily mean you've been in poor form for a "large portion" of the season (if by large you're referring to the majority of the season). There's more than one way of finishing with a poor points total - you don't have to be poor for most of the season for that to happen, we're pretty much a testament to that. It's entirely possible to be ok for the majority of the season (which we were, but we were never really better than just ok) if when you're not ok you're absolutely dreadful, which we often were, especially during the last 9 games where we lost 7 of them. We lost 20 times overall last season yet over half of those were in December and from late March to May. So basically over half of our defeats came in about a third of the season, The end result is the same of course and 38 points is definitely not acceptable (before I get misinterpreted again) but the fact that we were ok for large parts of last season is one of the reasons why I'm not as pessimistic as most on here (although still a bit pessimistic). Edited August 3, 2014 by Mantis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 34 points from 29 games isn't bad? We were garbage for most of last season and abysmal for the final 3rd. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 The way I see it is that we made a pretty decent start (especially given the teams we had to play) but were pretty awful onwards from the victory at Southampton. My recollection of the season after that is as follows: ghastly throughout December, managed to get a victory at Sunderland who were even worse than us at the time, back to poor form, an encouraging couple of games against Liverpool and Albion, back to poor form, the double over Norwich and Chelsea, followed by being raped by Stoke and ending the season in total freefall. Thus I think it is fair to say we were generally crap for that 24 game period and that numerically constitutes the majority of the season. Not too dissimilar to the McLeish season really. Started well enough and then got progressively worse and struggled to muster any sort of form after a certain point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted August 3, 2014 Moderator Share Posted August 3, 2014 The sooner the season starts and we can stop going over last season the better. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 Lets face it the only reason Lambert is still in a job is because of the current situation Any other chairman and he would have had the bullet last may 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theboyangel Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 Lets face it the only reason Lambert is still in a job is because of the current situation Any other chairman and he would have had the bullet last may I half agree with that but you could counter it by saying, Lambert is committed and wants to see this through. Many other managers wouldn't have taken the job in the first place and certainly wouldn't have stuck it out for three seasons. Also, he's been dealt an incredibly shit hand by Lerner (who I want more and more out of this club each day) from day one, which must contribute to the failings as a club and team in recent years. Lambert is by no means perfect or done himself a great deal of good by some of his tactics but he's using what he could afford to bring in to the best of his ability. It may not be good enough though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumstopdogs Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 Lets face it the only reason Lambert is still in a job is because of the current situation Any other chairman and he would have had the bullet last may Poor chairman and poor manager. What a mix we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post markavfc40 Posted August 3, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted August 3, 2014 (edited) Last season the only thing up for debate is how you judged our performances. In terms of results they are simply facts. Overall we totaled 38 points from 38 games which resulted in our worst ever Prem season in terms of points total (taking into account goal difference). The fact we took 19 points from our first 15 games and then 19 points from our next 24 games with just 4 points coming from our last 9 games would suggest we got progressively worse as the season went on. In terms of performances how you judge those is down to personal interpretation. For me I thought aside from the odd game we served up some of the poorest football in the 30+ years I have followed us. That is not being said in hindsight based on poor results. I was saying that from very early in the season. It wasn't just the technical side of our game. A big worry for me was the lack of heart and willingness to fight that we showed during the last quarter of the season. You can forgive a player if he is giving his all but is simply not good enough but to not be putting a shift in is unforgivable. When you have a number of players not putting a shift in then you have to look at the manager. Of course last seasons form may have very little relevance on next season. For that to be the case though we will need a half decent start to the season otherwise the knives will quickly be out for Lambert as the tripe served up at the back end of last season is still sadly very fresh in the memory. This club is on a knife edge. The chairman gambled the last three seasons on our survival and we scrapped by each time. To me this season has a feel of inevitability about it though. You sense that if we have a poor start, given results at the back end of last season, then the fans will be straight on Lamberts back. That will be understandable but it will just be another nail in the coffin. Things need to change dramatically over the next 3-4 weeks. This club needs a major boost be it in terms of a takeover, 2 or 3 players who can make a real difference being brought in combined with Delph and Vlaar signing new contracts or a change of manager. They all seem very unlikely to happen but without major changes I can see us struggling from the get go and never recovering. I hope I am wrong. Edited August 3, 2014 by markavfc40 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyAnty Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 If lambert were to quit which he wont do keane will step in think lerner has got keane onboard incase this happend. Overall lerner is a leech and lambert is a pawn on a chess board with very limited movement I think this as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilGibson Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 Lambert is simply one of the symptoms of the disease we have at the top of the club. We will not resolve symptoms until we remove the disease. Lerner for his part has tried to resolve Lambert of all blame for the last two seasons, and no doubt should we continue to decline he will continue to say it is his fault not Lambert's. It is very easy to do this when you are over 3000 miles away and do not have to face the ire of the fans on a day to day basis. So no matter how bad it gets Lambert always has an excuse. "I have asked the world of Paul Lambert and Paul Faulkner and they have both delivered selflessly" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjw63 Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 The sooner the season starts and we can stop going over last season the better. What if this season is worse ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 (edited) 34 points from 29 games isn't bad? We were garbage for most of last season and abysmal for the final 3rd. Not really. At that point we were 10th which as I said, is nothing to shout about but isn't bad either. If we were so poor for most of last season we wouldn't have been in a decent position come March. The way I see it is that we made a pretty decent start (especially given the teams we had to play) but were pretty awful onwards from the victory at Southampton. My recollection of the season after that is as follows: ghastly throughout December, managed to get a victory at Sunderland who were even worse than us at the time, back to poor form, an encouraging couple of games against Liverpool and Albion, back to poor form, the double over Norwich and Chelsea, followed by being raped by Stoke and ending the season in total freefall.Thus I think it is fair to say we were generally crap for that 24 game period and that numerically constitutes the majority of the season. Not too dissimilar to the McLeish season really. Started well enough and then got progressively worse and struggled to muster any sort of form after a certain point. I don't think it's fair to say that at all. While we were poor for a lot of that 24 game period if you look at the season as a whole (38 games) we were not poor for the majority of it. Once again, our crapness was mostly clustered in a 3 month period. Edited August 3, 2014 by Mantis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw_nuff Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 Yes, we were poor for the majority, we were just terrible for the last third. What worries me most is that a lot of bottom teams find a second wind with five or six games to go and are able to up their game. With our hoof-it and hope approach there' no room for improvement at all. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Steve Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 It was a pre season friendly. I know you don't want to hear that but that's what it was. I'm not his biggest fan but Christ. But..but...Lambert worst manager ever!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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