GENTLEMAN Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 Palace have beaten us once already . Since then we've regressed and they've kicked on . Heavy defeat awaits Heard this before many matches. Villa will keep fighting and you know that very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electric Avenue Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 Palace have beaten us once already . Since then we've regressed and they've kicked on . Heavy defeat awaits Heard this before many matches. Villa will keep fighting and you know that very well. I cannot think of a villa side with less fight in it than this one ?? Maybe the 85/86 team, it's close 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villabromsgrove Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 Lambertites? Really? So if you don't want him sacked you're put in some stupid category? Seriously done here now, pathetic. Don't let It bother you chap, it only indicates they have a weak argument to make. When we beat Palace next Saturday these people will be quietened. Up the Villa. Gentleman, do you really think that fans who are rightly infuriated by the disastrous trilogy of Lerner, Faulkner and Lambert will be reassured by a result against a bunch of hard working championship players? If you do then you really haven't understood the real disappointment and anger felt by lifelong Villa fans. I've supported the club for well over half a century and I'm angry about Lerner's deliberate neglect of his stewardship. A win next week will do nothing to alter my view that RL/PF/PL are seriously damaging the club that I love. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 Palace have beaten us once already . Since then we've regressed and they've kicked on . Heavy defeat awaits Heard this before many matches. Villa will keep fighting and you know that very well. This Villa side have looked on the beach since the 10th minute of the Stoke game so there is no reason why we would 'know that'. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 Palace have beaten us once already . Since then we've regressed and they've kicked on . Heavy defeat awaits Heard this before many matches. Villa will keep fighting and you know that very well. Yes, the spirit in the camp has been all too plain to see as we've lost the last three matches and conceded 10 goals in the process. I haven't seen such a fine display of camaraderie and fighting spirit since watching Band of Brothers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrees Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 Firstly, if you quote previous posts and pose questions regarding said posts, it would be really helpful if you included the OPs name in the quotes - please! Lambert took the job knowing exactly what was at his disposal in terms of playing staff, and funding for new players. At the time of taking the job, he presented himself as someone who could work with the budgets provided and deliver a team that could at least compete on a mid-table level. It is correct to assume that Lambert agreed to the conditions. I would also assume Lambert was made aware this was a long term project, much longer than 1 year and 10 months. You could ideally assume Lambert and Lerner agreed each season would bring small changes and steady progression, therefore Lambert is still in the process of rebuilding the club/team. I think it is fair to say that Lambert's first two seasons were all about survival in the Premiership, whether anybody likes that or not. I do not like it myself, but it is the way Lerner wants to operate the club now. The days of heavy spending by Lerner are well and truly over. All fair to say, but all assumption of the facts. He has signed a number of players with the funds made available to him, he has been backed in his isolation of highly paid players from previous regimes (Bent/Hutton/N'Zogbia), and has been backed with his wishes to improve the contracts of players who have proven themselves (Benteke/Lowton/Westwood/Weimann) I would disagree with N'Zogbia being included with Bent and Hutton. However, what is so objectionable about the decisions made above? They were all good decisions (made at the time) from what I can see. I never saw any popular protestations against these decisions from supporters. What should Lambert have done instead in your opinion? This was an observation about the fact that he had been backed in all of his decisions, I made no judgement about the decisions made, objectionable or otherwise. N'Zogbia has been rarer than Richard Dunne this season (at least I used to see Dunney in Waitrose!). If you believe that he is not part of the so-called 'bomb squad' I would imagine that you are in with the minority. To add some balance, Lambert has identified many players who would have made a great impact given their quality but Lerner refused to back him. It would be ludicrous to suggest Lerner has backed Lambert every time. Interesting 'balance'. Do you have any concrete knowledge of Lambert 'identifying' players and then being 'refused' backing? Or is this, as I suspect, 'balance' according to the Gentleman point of view? The worrying state and future of the club under the present owner can be debated elsewhere, but the consistently clueless performances that we see on the pitch week in and week out are down to one man, and one man only. Why? It is all interconnected and relevant as you have suggested yourself above. If Lambert is criticised then Lerner should equally be for his part in the plan. The club needs to be assessed as a whole if we want meaningful change. It is 'interconnected and relevant' by those who choose to deflect one problem onto the other. The owner is not going any time soon, unless the golden sheikh that we all crave bobs up tomorrow. That is therefore a complex problem that has to remain on the shelf. However, the abject displays on the pitch in front of the season ticket holders is something that can and should be addressed. He should have been relieved of his position yesterday. It would be an incredibly foolish decision at this stage. Unfortunately, with what we see on the pitch, they could give the job to a local Sunday league manager for the rest of the season and he would probably set the team up better than Lambert. Lambert leaving now would not make things worse, and may make things better enough to at least get us over the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GENTLEMAN Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 Lambertites? Really? So if you don't want him sacked you're put in some stupid category? Seriously done here now, pathetic. Don't let It bother you chap, it only indicates they have a weak argument to make. When we beat Palace next Saturday these people will be quietened. Up the Villa. Gentleman, do you really think that fans who are rightly infuriated by the disastrous trilogy of Lerner, Faulkner and Lambert will be reassured by a result against a bunch of hard working championship players? If you do then you really haven't understood the real disappointment and anger felt by lifelong Villa fans. I've supported the club for well over half a century and I'm angry about Lerner's deliberate neglect of his stewardship. A win next week will do nothing to alter my view that RL/PF/PL are seriously damaging the club that I love. That's fair enough. But other posters should not be labelled as "Lambertites" for expressing differing views. It is not acceptable. A win will make any true Villa supporter happy, it has nothing to do with Lambert/Lerner/Faulkner. I am sick of reading negative rubbish. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suttonpaul Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 Ditto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 Lambertites? Really? So if you don't want him sacked you're put in some stupid category? Seriously done here now, pathetic. Don't let It bother you chap, it only indicates they have a weak argument to make. When we beat Palace next Saturday these people will be quietened. Up the Villa. Gentleman, do you really think that fans who are rightly infuriated by the disastrous trilogy of Lerner, Faulkner and Lambert will be reassured by a result against a bunch of hard working championship players? If you do then you really haven't understood the real disappointment and anger felt by lifelong Villa fans. I've supported the club for well over half a century and I'm angry about Lerner's deliberate neglect of his stewardship. A win next week will do nothing to alter my view that RL/PF/PL are seriously damaging the club that I love. That's fair enough. But other posters should not be labelled as "Lambertites" for expressing differing views. It is not acceptable. A win will make any true Villa supporter happy, it has nothing to do with Lambert/Lerner/Faulkner. I am sick of reading negative rubbish. I don't think any villa supporter is unhappy with a win, it's when a win is used to paper over Lambert's obvious inadequacies that frustrates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 Palace have beaten us once already . Since then we've regressed and they've kicked on . Heavy defeat awaits Heard this before many matches. Villa will keep fighting and you know that very well. I cannot think of a villa side with less fight in it than this one ?? Maybe the 85/86 team, it's close We've won lots of points from being behind this season and we've had creditable results against the top teams. What we lack is quality and depth to cover key players, not fight. I still think with a decent window we will be top 10 next season with Lambert in charge. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 (edited) Palace have beaten us once already . Since then we've regressed and they've kicked on . Heavy defeat awaits Heard this before many matches. Villa will keep fighting and you know that very well. I don't think the players lack effort however I wouldn't equate that to them having plenty of fight. I think since the Chelsea result they appear to have the attitude that they are safe and have played as such. Stoke simply bullied us and yesterday Fulham wanted it more. They were absolutely desperate to win. The interview I heard with Lambert on my way back from VP yesterday was the first time in a long time I had heard him acknowledge we were in a fight to stay up. He needs to transmit that to the players quickly. The biggest problem we have of course though is a lack of quality. Nathan Baker sums up much of what is wrong with the current group of players. The lad never fails to give less than 100% and will put in the odd decent performance but bottom line is that he is not good enough at this level. The same could be said of three quarters of our squad. Edited April 6, 2014 by markavfc40 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electric Avenue Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 I'd like to think we'd do well under lambert but honestly there is not enough evidence to suggest this is going to happen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 For anyone using so far unsuccessful players such an Tonev, Helenius, Bowery etc as a stick to beat Lambert - surely it's expected that when spending low amounts on wildcards, the failures will outnumber the successes. While I think it's too early to fully appraise anyone since Lambert's start of employment, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect some to work and some to not. While operating under such frugal conditions, about the only approach is to go with the 'throw enough shit, hope some sticks'. Well some has stuck. Benteke, Bacuna, Westwood are major successes. Lowton and Bennett have been inconsistent. Others have either not taken their chance or not had a chance due to high stakes in games not allowing the risk. If anything, the improvement of some players and the increase in value compared to the non-existent decrease of less successful signings works massively in Lambert's favour. While previous managers have whittled money away, Lambert's effectively made us money and set us up well for the future. As for this season, to me, the reason we haven't improved is mainly due to bad luck with injuries coupled with a shallow squad. The playing style has been hit and miss but that's very much secondary to the results, which were looking to be quite good until recently. We've won a few we should have lost and lost a few more that we should have won. But Benteke's been off the boil pretty much all season through niggles and Vlaar's absence didn't help. The last point I'd like to make is that I don't believe managers have to do a lot these days. Tactics are such a well understood concept in professional level football that it comes down to the better 11 players will win more times than not. A managers job is to walk the thin line between discipline and avoiding pissing off millionaire 21 year old athletes. I therefore think that the best manager is one who will deflect criticism from the players, exude calmness and confidence, and not look like he's panicking when all the fans seem to be. Basically not a nutter. So it comes down to; I think Lambert's doing a decent job all things considered. I think we're well placed to move on from here where lots of other clubs have overreached and will start to struggle pretty soon. And I think that once we start getting a bit of luck in various areas and get a few good quality signings we'll be back up challenging the top 6. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrees Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 We've won lots of points from being behind this season and we've had creditable results against the top teams. What we lack is quality and depth to cover key players, not fight. I still think with a decent window we will be top 10 next season with Lambert in charge. That is an excellent point, and one of the reasons that Lambert confounds so much. 'Big' games, Chelsea home and away, Man City home, Liverpool away, Arsenal away - all games that he apparently gets the team up for. Contentious games - West Brom (derby) and Norwich (old team), home and away - also games that he apparently gets them up for. And then we lose at home to West Ham, Palace, Fulham and Stoke, as well as 'giants' like Newcastle and a Manure team that everyone else seems able to beat. That's why we sit here today thinking that, if he stays, our only chance of any more points this season is Man City away 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 I'd like to think we'd do well under lambert but honestly there is not enough evidence to suggest this is going to happen I dunno, when we got our first XI on the park up for those few games until KEA and Weimann came off against Stoke, I thought top 10 was pretty much nailed on. It seems we can spend £20m a season without going in the red, so assuming we can bring a few more first team players I can't see us doing anything other than getting better next year. That's with my logical hat on, but I know that football isn't always logical, especially with our club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 We've won lots of points from being behind this season and we've had creditable results against the top teams. What we lack is quality and depth to cover key players, not fight. I still think with a decent window we will be top 10 next season with Lambert in charge. That is an excellent point, and one of the reasons that Lambert confounds so much. 'Big' games, Chelsea home and away, Man City home, Liverpool away, Arsenal away - all games that he apparently gets the team up for. Contentious games - West Brom (derby) and Norwich (old team), home and away - also games that he apparently gets them up for. And then we lose at home to West Ham, Palace, Fulham and Stoke, as well as 'giants' like Newcastle and a Manure team that everyone else seems able to beat. That's why we sit here today thinking that, if he stays, our only chance of any more points this season is Man City away There's no 'if' he stays. He will be here unless we get relegated which seems very unlikely still. I can only say we haven't got the squad to cope with key absences, that's why we play well at certain times and not others, rather than just not being up for certain challenges. The way the opposition sets themselves up has to be taken into consideration, whilst we don't play well it's often because of the opposition as much as us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villabromsgrove Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 We've won lots of points from being behind this season and we've had creditable results against the top teams. What we lack is quality and depth to cover key players, not fight. I still think with a decent window we will be top 10 next season with Lambert in charge. That is an excellent point, and one of the reasons that Lambert confounds so much. 'Big' games, Chelsea home and away, Man City home, Liverpool away, Arsenal away - all games that he apparently gets the team up for. Contentious games - West Brom (derby) and Norwich (old team), home and away - also games that he apparently gets them up for. And then we lose at home to West Ham, Palace, Fulham and Stoke, as well as 'giants' like Newcastle and a Manure team that everyone else seems able to beat. That's why we sit here today thinking that, if he stays, our only chance of any more points this season is Man City away There's no 'if' he stays. He will be here unless we get relegated which seems very unlikely still. I can only say we haven't got the squad to cope with key absences, that's why we play well at certain times and not others, rather than just not being up for certain challenges. The way the opposition sets themselves up has to be taken into consideration, whilst we don't play well it's often because of the opposition as much as us. It might also have something to do with our players not being able to put two passes together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bose Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 (edited) I personally think that both extreme camps (I know most fans are somewhere in the middle) of those that either defend Lambert for nearly anything and those that "despise him" are annoying in their own ways. I understand people that think he can't get us anywhere because things have been fairly black the past weeks. They might sack Lambert and he might well deserve that based on the majority of performances this season. I doubt it will fix a thing though. We'll just go in circles until Lerner sells the club. If Lambert stays with no investment we'll see the same things. If we get a new manager, he'll get in the job knowing he'll work under those constraints - that manager will have to rebuild and get his own squad with limited funds. It's theeeeeeeeeeee circle of Villa and it **** us aaaallllll. Edited April 6, 2014 by bose 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 I notice the Lambertites only arguments are about what other managers cannot possibly deliver ! Where are the arguments to highlight what Lambert has actually delivered for us ?? All I can see is a catalogue of failure and embarrassment ! I say this through a heavy heart but I think Mcleish would have done better if we'd given him 2 more years. I'm no fan of "big eck" but lambert and his cronies really have been awful Very sadly EA you are spot on. Lambert is a joke of a manager who makes MON look like a tactical genius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrees Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 I personally think that both extreme camps (I know most fans are somewhere in the middle) of those that either defend Lambert for nearly anything and those that "despise him" are annoying in their own ways. I understand people that think he can't get us anywhere because things have been fairly black the past weeks. That's my problem. I don't get the hate for a bloke who has taken a job and found himself way out of his depth. Same goes for Mr Lerner, a bloke who has also found himself way out of his depth in the mire that is English football. It would be great for our football club if Lambert goes tomorrow, and hopeful for our club if Mr Lerner goes. When both are gone, they will go with my best wishes. Same goes for everyone associated with our club over time with, in my case, the exception of O'Neill. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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