PieFacE Posted May 30, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted May 30, 2014 (edited) Yeah but if he can bring in decent young players and sell them on for good profit, it means we have good players in the team which ultimately will mean the standard of football will be better. Isn't this exactly what we're currently trying to do with the current approach? Buy young players with potential and sell them on to build the club? If this guy does not put any of the made back into the club then the fans would be on his back from day one. But we do not know that to be the case. He may want to actually build the club up and have us compete. Edited May 30, 2014 by PieFacE 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaggy Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 I'm usually a sceptic but even I don't really get the outrage over this one. The fact he owns a sports group which has access to an extensive scouting network and many contacts within the game makes me believe that he'd be exactly the sort of guy who knows how to run a football club. His moral sanctity really isn't that big an issue to me although as already clarified, there isn't enough evidence to go around labelling him a terrorist-dealer etc. Regarding the prostitution thing, he was acquitted and incase anyone has missed it, the basic principal is that you have to assume that acquittal equals innocence unless evidence comes along to suggest otherwise. Edit: Also we've had a 'nicey-nicey' owner in Lerner and look what a joke he has proven to be. At least Lerner put money into local charities and the refurbishment of established entities already at the club. At least we have a youth model and threads on this forum like "Jack Grealish" where we'd love to see another youngster given the chance to prove themselves at first team level. This guy (if true, etc.) is basically us completely selling the soul of Aston Villa, becoming a money club and gaining plastic fans. Maybe we're the next Man City? Then again, this all seems to appease the majority of fans on here who want nothing more than; a ) Money thrown at the club b ) Success Maybe that's all football is really about these days after all. Football is a game pal, you play games to win. I'd love to know what this soul is that people keep banging on about, is it our single European Cup? Wouldn't you rather we be trying to win another European Cup? I also don't understand why you think we would stop having a youth setup all of a sudden. **** nonsense to be honest mate. I follow football because I love the game and Aston Villa were the club closest to my heart growing up. In my lifetime, I've seen us win TWO TROPHIES. That's 27 years of winning, essentially, **** all. I have no entitlement to winning things. I'd love to see us win another European Cup; I doubt this will happen. Despite how most people feel about certain footballers, I love the fact we've fielded Agbonlahor, Albrighton, Delfouneso, Gardner etc. as local lads playing for a local team. Chelsea have none. Man City have none. If this is the route we all want to take, fine - let's just get bought out by someone who has no emotional connection to the club and sell our soul. If there is substantial financial backing, the youth setup will be obsolete; or, to further, it will exist but be pointless. See: Chelsea, Man City. If you're asking me what I'd prefer; a backer throwing £1bn at our playing staff at us being instantaneously successful or having a poor owner who cares for the club, but we get relegated I'd take the latter everytime. This post epitomizes why a lack of success has become acceptable to some of our fans. Its a fine notion to have home grown players in your team but will our academy ever produce enough quality at the one time to form a successful team in the Premiership? Unlikely, so to be successful we as a club have to move with the times and bring people into the club who are willing to invest to make us competitive enough to gain that success and our league placement over recent seasons should be evidence enough that a romantic vision of home grown players pushing this club back into the higher echelon of the Premiership is just a mirage. The soul of any club is it's fans not the name or the ground and if you were to ask the majority of fans now would you want to emulate a Man City or stay as we are then I really do think you would be very disappointed with the answer. Those old traditions you speak of are gone now unless the relegation you would accept would see us drop further down the leagues to where some of those old traditions remain. If that is acceptable to you then fine but I for one want to see our great club hold some trophies aloft again and to do that we must evolve with the business side of football or simply sink without the required change. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillanousOne Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 (edited) i've heard this Arif guy will stick pigs heads on the gates at VP and swap the food boths with live portals to hell that funnel evil straight into the club and surrounding communities. He will also rename us Satan FC, appoint the ghost of Jimmy Saville as manager and peddle death and misery across Birmingham. But at least we won't buy crap players, almost get relegated every season and play diabolical football. Edited May 30, 2014 by VillanousOne 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 (edited) - Secondly, if all you're after is success then why not just support a successful team? Why bother with the grind of being a fan of Millwall, Barnsley, Burton Albion, West Brom, Aston Villa et al? The amount of people who jump on success is both sickening and also has a negative impact on the atmosphere at a ground (see; Chelsea, Man City, hell, even Arsenal to an extent). But the reasons for supporting a club are usually sentimental. That doesn't mean though that once you support a club for these reasons that the the basic spirit of sport goes out of the window. There is literally no point in supporting a football club if you are content to accept being perpetual losers just due to some sort of idealism that belongs in the 80's. Whether or not you like it, football has moved on from then and Villa as a club need to also. For me, I just don't want it to be with billions and billions. I don't want to simply buy success - it doesn't prove anything other than money wins. Not really considering that there are other clubs in the league who spend huge amounts already. If hypothetically we were taken over, spent big amounts and won the league in a few years time, then it wouldn't be because we had grossly outspent the likes of Chelsea and City. It would be because our team performed better and we'd therefore be rightful champions. Edited May 30, 2014 by Isa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudevillaisnice Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 If you're asking me what I'd prefer; a backer throwing £1bn at our playing staff at us being instantaneously successful or having a poor owner who cares for the club, but we get relegated I'd take the latter everytime. Hmm. Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Well, i think we've gone through the negatives enough, and discussed about Doyen buying young players and then churning them to make a profit. Yes, because that was the entire MO of their business. Let's assume Doyen were a property company and replace the words "young players" with "cheap property":Well, i think we've gone through the negatives enough, and discussed about Doyen buying cheap property and then redeveloping it to make a profit. All of a sudden there is no problem and they'd be considered a good business by their detractors and it would be viewed as a positive. Also, why would anyone expect any potential owner not to want to make a profit with us? We are a business first and foremost. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samjp26 Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Everything about Doyen points to not competing? What on earth are you on about? Well, i think we've gone through the negatives enough, and discussed about Doyen buying young players and then churning them to make a profit. What do you understand about Doyen which makes you think that they would make Villa compete in the longer-term? As i'm at a complete loss for positive points... and very interested if there are positives - none have been mentioned so far in this thread except the vague "will make Villa compete" I have noted several positives, for a start they're already involved in football - a rarity when it comes to multi a billionaire owners. The group is connected to clubs all over the world and would be able to help bring better quality players in. The CEO of the Doyen Group himself stated the other day that £100m is merely a drop in the ocean. Unfortunately we don't know a great deal about the ins and outs of their spending, but they work with FC Twente at one end of the spectrum whilst they also completed the move of Falcao. Their interests clearly vary, they want profit of course but teams are benefitting along the way, it isn't only beneficial to themselves else teams wouldn't work with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Camping in snowdonia Edit: Jeez. My girlfriend just posted that as she thought she was on Google. Ffs 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 We believe you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Well, i think we've gone through the negatives enough, and discussed about Doyen buying young players and then churning them to make a profit. Yes, because that was the entire MO of their business. Let's assume Doyen were a property company and replace the words "young players" with "cheap property": Well, i think we've gone through the negatives enough, and discussed about Doyen buying cheap property and then redeveloping it to make a profit. All of a sudden there is no problem and they'd be considered a good business by their detractors and it would be viewed as a positive. Also, why would anyone expect any potential owner not to want to make a profit with us? We are a business first and foremost. using your analogy of the young players being cheap property, what would Aston Villa the club be? sure, do up properties and sell them on at a profit. no problem there. How does that help Villa (replace with whatever Villa becomes in the analogy)? Thats kind of where it breaks down. Buying young players and selling on improved players is a great business. Profitable and i have no problem with it. But does it help the long-term future of the club? You don't need to build the club, have long-term plans for the club under that business model. The business is all about improving the players, not improving the club. sure, there might be side-benefits in the short-term, you get the occassional Benteke passing through the club, but does it mean an absence of vision for the club as a whole? that is where my worry is. what i would do if i was in the business of making a profit from churning players, is to focus on that. and just keep the club in the lower levels of the premier league with minimum investment going in. i wouldn't want to spend/waste money on the club, when i could be using that money to get my next profitable player in. again, its all speculation based on Doyen's MO.i don't think Randy will sell to Arif due to it not being in Villa's long-term interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 I have noted several positives, for a start they're already involved in football - a rarity when it comes to multi a billionaire owners. The group is connected to clubs all over the world and would be able to help bring better quality players in. The CEO of the Doyen Group himself stated the other day that £100m is merely a drop in the ocean. Fair enough, that is a good point. well, 2 good points actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 **** nonsense to be honest mate. I follow football because I love the game and Aston Villa were the club closest to my heart growing up. In my lifetime, I've seen us win TWO TROPHIES. That's 27 years of winning, essentially, **** all. I have no entitlement to winning things. I'd love to see us win another European Cup; I doubt this will happen. Despite how most people feel about certain footballers, I love the fact we've fielded Agbonlahor, Albrighton, Delfouneso, Gardner etc. as local lads playing for a local team. Chelsea have none. Man City have none. If this is the route we all want to take, fine - let's just get bought out by someone who has no emotional connection to the club and sell our soul. If there is substantial financial backing, the youth setup will be obsolete; or, to further, it will exist but be pointless. See: Chelsea, Man City. If you're asking me what I'd prefer; a backer throwing £1bn at our playing staff at us being instantaneously successful or having a poor owner who cares for the club, but we get relegated I'd take the latter everytime. This post epitomizes why a lack of success has become acceptable to some of our fans. Its a fine notion to have home grown players in your team but will our academy ever produce enough quality at the one time to form a successful team in the Premiership? a ) People, including yourself, need to **** off with this "lack of success has become acceptable", "lowered expectations" nonsense. We've won 2 trophies in 31+ years - 0 trophies in 18 years. Of course I accept that we're not a top team, for **** sake. b ) Depends what you define as successful. A league winning team, though? No. No academy will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 - Secondly, if all you're after is success then why not just support a successful team? Why bother with the grind of being a fan of Millwall, Barnsley, Burton Albion, West Brom, Aston Villa et al? The amount of people who jump on success is both sickening and also has a negative impact on the atmosphere at a ground (see; Chelsea, Man City, hell, even Arsenal to an extent). But the reasons for supporting a club are usually sentimental. That doesn't mean though that once you support a club for these reasons that the the basic spirit of sport goes out of the window. There is literally no point in supporting a football club if you are content to accept being perpetual losers just due to some sort of idealism that belongs in the 80's. Whether or not you like it, football has moved on from then and Villa as a club need to also. For me, I just don't want it to be with billions and billions. I don't want to simply buy success - it doesn't prove anything other than money wins. Not really considering that there are other clubs in the league who spend huge amounts already. If hypothetically we were taken over, spent big amounts and won the league in a few years time, then it wouldn't be because we had grossly outspent the likes of Chelsea and City. It would be because our team performed better and we'd therefore be rightful champions. Second point completely proves that money wins, doesn't it? We would be champions because we're competing in the same financial markets as Chelsea/Man City and, therefore, able to challenge. Ergo, money = win. The bit in bold is certainly fair enough r.e: the football world has changed and Villa must too; I completely accept that. However, I reject that there is no point in being a football fan if you're content not to follow this. What would be the point in lower league football? Why bother having a relegation zone as people just won't support teams? It's nonsense and smacks of gloryhunting to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Well, i think we've gone through the negatives enough, and discussed about Doyen buying young players and then churning them to make a profit. Yes, because that was the entire MO of their business. Let's assume Doyen were a property company and replace the words "young players" with "cheap property": Well, i think we've gone through the negatives enough, and discussed about Doyen buying cheap property and then redeveloping it to make a profit. All of a sudden there is no problem and they'd be considered a good business by their detractors and it would be viewed as a positive. Also, why would anyone expect any potential owner not to want to make a profit with us? We are a business first and foremost. using your analogy of the young players being cheap property, what would Aston Villa the club be? sure, do up properties and sell them on at a profit. no problem there. How does that help Villa (replace with whatever Villa becomes in the analogy)? Thats kind of where it breaks down. Buying young players and selling on improved players is a great business. Profitable and i have no problem with it. But does it help the long-term future of the club? You don't need to build the club, have long-term plans for the club under that business model. The business is all about improving the players, not improving the club. sure, there might be side-benefits in the short-term, you get the occassional Benteke passing through the club, but does it mean an absence of vision for the club as a whole? that is where my worry is. what i would do if i was in the business of making a profit from churning players, is to focus on that. and just keep the club in the lower levels of the premier league with minimum investment going in. i wouldn't want to spend/waste money on the club, when i could be using that money to get my next profitable player in. again, its all speculation based on Doyen's MO.i don't think Randy will sell to Arif due to it not being in Villa's long-term interest. I think you will probably find Rady doesnt give a **** who he sells to as long as he gets £250m. He gave up on this club and the fans a long time ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dn1982 Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 I'm usually a sceptic but even I don't really get the outrage over this one. The fact he owns a sports group which has access to an extensive scouting network and many contacts within the game makes me believe that he'd be exactly the sort of guy who knows how to run a football club. His moral sanctity really isn't that big an issue to me although as already clarified, there isn't enough evidence to go around labelling him a terrorist-dealer etc. Regarding the prostitution thing, he was acquitted and incase anyone has missed it, the basic principal is that you have to assume that acquittal equals innocence unless evidence comes along to suggest otherwise. Edit: Also we've had a 'nicey-nicey' owner in Lerner and look what a joke he has proven to be. At least Lerner put money into local charities and the refurbishment of established entities already at the club. At least we have a youth model and threads on this forum like "Jack Grealish" where we'd love to see another youngster given the chance to prove themselves at first team level. This guy (if true, etc.) is basically us completely selling the soul of Aston Villa, becoming a money club and gaining plastic fans. Maybe we're the next Man City? Then again, this all seems to appease the majority of fans on here who want nothing more than; a ) Money thrown at the club b ) Success Maybe that's all football is really about these days after all. Football is a game pal, you play games to win. I'd love to know what this soul is that people keep banging on about, is it our single European Cup? Wouldn't you rather we be trying to win another European Cup? I also don't understand why you think we would stop having a youth setup all of a sudden. **** nonsense to be honest mate. I follow football because I love the game and Aston Villa were the club closest to my heart growing up. In my lifetime, I've seen us win TWO TROPHIES. That's 27 years of winning, essentially, **** all. I have no entitlement to winning things. I'd love to see us win another European Cup; I doubt this will happen. Despite how most people feel about certain footballers, I love the fact we've fielded Agbonlahor, Albrighton, Delfouneso, Gardner etc. as local lads playing for a local team. Chelsea have none. Man City have none. If this is the route we all want to take, fine - let's just get bought out by someone who has no emotional connection to the club and sell our soul. If there is substantial financial backing, the youth setup will be obsolete; or, to further, it will exist but be pointless. See: Chelsea, Man City. If you're asking me what I'd prefer; a backer throwing £1bn at our playing staff at us being instantaneously successful or having a poor owner who cares for the club, but we get relegated I'd take the latter everytime. Would you be happy if Lerner stayed didn't invest but attended more games? Or Doug Ellis bought the club? This crap about the soul of a club is just something to try to say football changed since SKY. The 'SOUL' of a club is it's fans simple as that. Now I want to see a successful Villa team and I couldn't care how that's achieved. Did Abramovic care about Chelsea when he bought it? Did you see the owners of Man City when they won the title? Do you think they cared about Man city 10 years ago? All you can ask for is a committed owner who values our clubs traditions as Lerner did and when he couldn't keep us competing he's trying to get us someone who will. I believe Lerner will try to get us an owner with the right ideas for taking us forward if that's spending a billion in doing so or running us properly but investing wisely I don't care as long as we start progressing. I say bring in the hookers if it makes us successful life's too short to be hanging around the relegation places every year!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McGregor1888 Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Yeah but if he can bring in decent young players and sell them on for good profit, it means we have good players in the team which ultimately will mean the standard of football will be better. Isn't this exactly what we're currently trying to do with the current approach? Buy young players with potential and sell them on to build the club? If this guy does not put any of the made back into the club then the fans would be on his back from day one. But we do not know that to be the case. He may want to actually build the club up and have us compete. So let's replace Lerner for a guy who will give us more of the same? In Dragon's Den style: I'm Out! Why are people so keen to rush into bed with the first person who seems interested in Villa? It smacks of desperation. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaHatesMe Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 I don't know who would be good for Villa, or who wouldn't, I just enjoy the idea that Randy Lerner's primary motivation is to sell to somebody that's "good for the club" or whatever. Because that's how businessmen operate. Randy Lerner is selling Aston Villa because he feels he isn't the answer, and he wants the club to succeed. It's certainly not because he's trying to salvage his money! Come on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffy Biro Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 They do not own a football club so you can not come to any sort of conclusion as to how they'd run one should they buy one. Its just one of many links yet it seems to have been decided that they own us and how they are going to run us.. Not sure why i'd bother saying all that though because it'll be the same next week when all the papers take another stab at who the new owner will be. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis_B Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 How many would love Saudi Royalty? Who sponsr terrorism and put down women - There are no angels out there just Billionaires 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samjp26 Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 (edited) Yeah but if he can bring in decent young players and sell them on for good profit, it means we have good players in the team which ultimately will mean the standard of football will be better. Isn't this exactly what we're currently trying to do with the current approach? Buy young players with potential and sell them on to build the club? If this guy does not put any of the made back into the club then the fans would be on his back from day one. But we do not know that to be the case. He may want to actually build the club up and have us compete. So let's replace Lerner for a guy who will give us more of the same? In Dragon's Den style: I'm Out! Why are people so keen to rush into bed with the first person who seems interested in Villa? It smacks of desperation. If we had a team full of Benteke's with major resale value then it would be fine. Problem right now is we only have a hand full of young players that are of a good level of quality. This is probably indicated by their transfer fees in the first place. If we spend more money, on better quality young players, we should in theory not only play and perform better but also make more money. Rinse and repeat. How many would love Saudi Royalty? Who sponsr terrorism and put down women - There are no angels out there just Billionaires I really don't understand what bearing a persons nationality has on whether they will run the club well or not, or whether they are an 'angel' or not. Its judgemental and pathetic, bordering on racist. It has nothing to do with their race or nationality whether they're a good person or not, or a good owner for a football club. Edited May 30, 2014 by samjp26 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts