Marka Ragnos Posted March 31, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted March 31, 2015 ... I think the issue with this event should be about safeguarding opportunities that place anyone in a position to do this much damage to families. It should not be about adding a stigma or risk to anyone with mental health problems - most people will suffer from them at some point in their life, whether they live with it daily or experience it after horrible periods in their life. Well said! I think you nail it on many levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Currently most aircraft are controlled by a bit of both. Much of the navigation and take off and landing is basically done by the aircraft, with the Pilot(s) largely monitoring. They can override the Flight Control System if the need arises, but by and large they type in the flight plan (waypoints, diversion airfields and so on) and sit back, on the more modern commercial aircraft. I know you know a lot about this so I'm asking as an interested punter, not saying you're wrong. As I understood it, there wasn't an automated system for taking off, it's still manual outside of the safety limits to stop stalls etc. And I thought autoland wasn't used as a matter of course, it was only tested when conditions allowed. Do the dreamliners etc use autoland by default? I know that autopilot has been used for a long time for cruise but I thought pretty much everything else still was manual, unless they're testing it in ideal conditions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted March 31, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted March 31, 2015 I understood that automated landing has been on commercial flights for quite some time? It's part of the reason the movie staple of 'civilian being talked through landing a plane after pilots are incapacitated' wouldn't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 It's typically only used for landing around 2% of flights , mainly in low vis or bad weather Easiest way to tell is If you have a smooth landing then it was carried out by the pilot , if you hit the ground with a bit of a thud then auto pilot landed you ... It's more fuel efficient to come down with a bump apparently So says my mate who works at Rockwell Collins and knows a fair bit about these things as he installs the systems in control towers Though of course he could be pulling my leg 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 To bring up the discussion on the previous page, this is my simplistic view point of this. Person wants to be a pilot -> They train but are depressed due to stress of being a pilot -> Can't talk about depression because they could be forced to stop being a pilot -> They get more depressed for this reason Until they provide more support for pilots that isn't just 'mental illness = lose your job' then more and more pilots will be more and more depressed. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted March 31, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted March 31, 2015 Pilots are often also subject to poor working conditions and circumstances. What starts out as a dream job for many turns into enormous training debts, surprisingly poor pay, and pay as you fly deals which are usually capped. And an awful lot of them are effectively self employed but tied to single airline contracts (often zero hour at that) meaning added insurance costs and stresses. Experienced captains often do well for themselves but further down the ladder, I could see the stress and strain of being a newly qualified pilot taking its toll very quickly as they try to do the hours needed to step up and justify the training costs and the difficulties getting there. Its apparently even worse in the US. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 Lot of US pilots were sleeping all night in the lounge before a flight the next morning as the airlines didn't pay them accommodation ... Don't know if that is still the case though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted April 1, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted April 1, 2015 I understood that automated landing has been on commercial flights for quite some time? It's part of the reason the movie staple of 'civilian being talked through landing a plane after pilots are incapacitated' wouldn't happen. The other reason being that I'm sure I read it would be as good as impossible for a civilian to land a plane even with an expert talking them through it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted April 1, 2015 Moderator Share Posted April 1, 2015 Currently most aircraft are controlled by a bit of both. Much of the navigation and take off and landing is basically done by the aircraft, with the Pilot(s) largely monitoring. They can override the Flight Control System if the need arises, but by and large they type in the flight plan (waypoints, diversion airfields and so on) and sit back, on the more modern commercial aircraft. ...as I understood it, there wasn't an automated system for taking off, it's still manual outside of the safety limits to stop stalls etc. And I thought autoland wasn't used as a matter of course, it was only tested when conditions allowed. Do the dreamliners etc use autoland by default? I know that autopilot has been used for a long time for cruise but I thought pretty much everything else still was manual, unless they're testing it in ideal conditions? On the landing part, first - depending on aircraft type and equipment fit, and depending on the airfield being also suitably equipped, airliners can land completely automatically. Otherwise there is generally some level of automation, with Pilot(s) taking full control at some point on or during the approach. On the take off part - completely automatic take off is implemented (obviously) in some UAVs and in some carrier-borne military aircraft. In the civil world, take off is (as far as I'm aware) not done completely automatically. However, again on more modern and extensively equiped aircraft the Pilot's role is still becoming more like that of a systems operator, where he or she still selects what they want to happen and when, but computers actually then make that happen. So the thing is manual, but machine assisted - a stupid analogy would be like "Launch control" you get on those fancy cars like Ferraris and Beemers n'that, where the driver selects a "race" mode, and then when he puts his foot down, the computers stop the wheels spinning, stop the revs going too high, set the suspension and steering settings to a particular mode - the driver is in control, but the machine is automatically performing a fair chunk of the workload...except there's a bit more to it in an aircraft, obviously. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 I understood that automated landing has been on commercial flights for quite some time? It's part of the reason the movie staple of 'civilian being talked through landing a plane after pilots are incapacitated' wouldn't happen. The other reason being that I'm sure I read it would be as good as impossible for a civilian to land a plane even with an expert talking them through it. Not sure about impossible. I know a Cessna is a world away from an airliner but my very first time at the stick of a 172 I landed it myself in fairly choppy conditions. I've always been able to land 757s etc on modern sims too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted April 1, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted April 1, 2015 "as good as impossible" So not impossible. But incredibly unlikely. I can't find the article but it basically said that in the event of, say, both pilots passing out and a civilian taking over, the likelihood is that they wouldn't even be able to figure out how to turn the radio on and ask for help. In the event that they did manage that and were talked to by an expert, even with step by step instructions, the very very high likelihood is that they'd still crash it. If the auto landing was engaged before they took over then they'd have more of a chance. I've done the Nurburgring in 7 minutes on modern sims. Doesn't mean I could do it in real life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted April 1, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted April 1, 2015 This wasn't it, but it's a similar article Without auto-land, on touching down you would have to hit the brakes, which are controlled by way of a complicated foot pedal system, and reverse the thrust of the engines (if the runway is short) to stop the plane, Wright (director of safety and technology for the National Air Traffic Controllers Association) says. He guesses that a novice has a "less than 1 percent chance of landing and keeping [the plane] on the runway and not hurting anybody. And that's on a good day." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 the guys who did 9/11 learned how to fly on flight sims and they di... oh.. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrinityRoadSteps Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 The difference between doing something in real life and doing it on a computer sim is massive. No matter how good the sim is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted April 1, 2015 Author Share Posted April 1, 2015 The difference between doing something in real life and doing it on a computer sim is massive. No matter how good the sim is yeah we had that get the girl naked in the sauna sim on VT once and I aced it real life I just get women screaming and told by the pool attendant to put my shorts back on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 3 pilots in the cockpit on my Ryanair flight today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post chrisp65 Posted April 2, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted April 2, 2015 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 The 3rd pilot is a packers fan? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted July 29, 2015 Author Share Posted July 29, 2015 Rumours of a 777 wing having washed up on Reunion Island , First they find Madeline , now MH370 .... Lord Lucan next ? But ion all seriousness , it appears to have drifted quite a way so if it belongs to MH370 they are probably still no close to finding i Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted May 9, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted May 9, 2016 The BBC put out one of it's irregular Conspiracy Files shows the other night about the MH17 crash. Very interesting viewing, not least of which is the extent of Russian efforts to drown out the truth with never ending streams of misleading contradictory and bizarre stories. Well worth a watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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