PauloBarnesi Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 It must be a slow news day for this to come up again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Interesting thread. My over due two cents worth (not sure why I didn'[t post earlier) is that the term "hero" is vastly over used and there is no greater evidence of that than in the use of that word to describe the player Juan Pablo Angel. Decent fella, without question. But living up to what was expected of him, or matching up to players who could more arguably be described as hero? Never. Not saying he was a crap player but I do not feel the brief moments of class on the pitch that he demonstrated ( that goal against Chelsea being one of the best I have ever seen live ) merit the use of the term hero. In my own personal opinion the feelings towards JPA from those fans who think of him as a hero are greatly influenced by the fact that he was a nice lad and more so than because his siging was viewed as some sort of victory over Ellis. Just my opinion I know there are some that do not agree but if you are slightly blinded by things you are unlikely to agree I feel! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonno_2004 Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Def a hero for me, did well after initially having a hard time settling in. Scored a few good goals as well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VlVA_LA_REVOLUTlON Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 the money we paid for him was alot at the time, 9.5 million and we waited how long to see some results from him? i think in my opinion too many people did/still do get caught up in fancy name syndrome and the fact he had a headband and floppy hair and white boots made him be overrated by many. In my opinion i'd say flop he just didnt perform how he should of. Not suited to the prem in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voyager1 Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Suppose if you take into account what we paid for him and the number of goals scored then flop. On the other hand was treated badly by the old regime when he first arrived, couldn`t speak the language, wife/child ill etc etc so didn`t have the best of starts. The fans really took to him though and i`ll never forget his goal against Chelsea in the Cup. On the downside his penalty misses at Fulham and the sitter he missed to put us 3-1 up against the scum and kill the game that ended up 2-2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrissmith921 Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 I believe if he played for us now in his Prime he'd be banging the goals in. Bottom line is we were rubbish, utter rubbish team when he was here and he's a confidence player. The one season we had a good run he scored 23 goals. Says it all. I love JPA. Always will. How about you turn that last bit around - the one season he actually performed, we did a lot better. That says to me we always had a decent enough side just never scored enough goals. For me there was one reason, and one reason only for that. Lets put this into perspective mate, in GT's season where he was often criticised he had Leanardhsen/Kinsella playing alongside. Put it this way even if we had Dwight Yorke in GT's season he would never have scored the goals. He still had chances though. And he missed them. It wasnt as if he was going game after game without touching the ball. He wasted many chances, but because he was a big money signing then people always point at the others around him as a reason for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pelle Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 I miss him in Villa. But on the other hand, when he left it was for sure not too early for him to leave. But I miss JPA at his prime. A hero for me, but I can see why some might not see him as such and somewhere between the 2 options. Flop? 60 goals only beaten by Yorke in recent years. And he was sidelined by GTMkII for almost a season. But I wouldn't agree on that GT destroyed JPA, Nick. Just didn't give him a fair chance. After all, his record season was the first season after GT had left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desensitized43 Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 He's a hero! Here are my reasons: 1. Keeping us in the Prem - We all seem to forget so quickly how dark those days were and he scored the goals that IMHO kept us in the league for 1 or maybe 2 seasons that i believe if he wasnt there we could have gone down. 2. The way he was treated - When he moved to England and could hardly speak a word of English the club did nothing to help him adjust to life in England...i believe he once gave an interview in which he said he only grew his hair long because he lacked the English skills to find a decent hair dresser and communicate what he wanted done. 3. His family problems - Again, this was a problem with the club helping the players at the time. He lost a few members of his family if i remember correctly and he just carried on and showed a massive amount of commitment and courage. For these reasons the man is an absolute legend in my eyes and those who accuse him of being a flop should also remember that we never played him in the correct way in all the time he was with us. The man had some lovely touches, not a great finisher, but he had a massive leap and linked up the play really well but because he wasnt the '20 goal a season' man people seem to make up their minds he was a flop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 He's a hero! Here are my reasons: 1. Keeping us in the Prem - We all seem to forget so quickly how dark those days were and he scored the goals that IMHO kept us in the league for 1 or maybe 2 seasons that i believe if he wasnt there we could have gone down..Just on this, Marcus Aalback scored some goals that really did keep us in the league, should he be classed as a hero too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desensitized43 Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 He's a hero! Here are my reasons: 1. Keeping us in the Prem - We all seem to forget so quickly how dark those days were and he scored the goals that IMHO kept us in the league for 1 or maybe 2 seasons that i believe if he wasnt there we could have gone down..Just on this, Marcus Aalback scored some goals that really did keep us in the league, should he be classed as a hero too? Its a combination of all those things mate. AllBack scored some really important goals but ultimately didnt give the team enough (as i mention later on). Angel brought others who were around him into play. But while we're on Allback i do feel we let him go too soon TBH lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatty Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 I wouldn't say a legend, he was never part of a brilliant team or won us a trophy, he didn't stay with us for a decade (i understand it wasn't his choice im sure) etc however I certainly wouldn't say he was a flop either. I think that there wont be many villa fans who dont have fond memories of JPA. He was a cracking little player who kissed his badge and ran into the fans when he scored... I certainly would list him among my favourite player from the last 15 years but really I dont think he did enough to be classed as a true legend. No doubt if we were to play against him we'd give him a huge roar but not quite a legend for me but certainly as close as you can come without quite crossing that line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ettington_Nrake Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 I thought he was one of our most over-rated player since I have been watching the Villa. Loads of our younger fans loved him, because he had one good season, and he was a bit of a poser. I just found him lazy, missed LOADS of chances, and not really my type of player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olejniker Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 I thought he was one of our most over-rated player since I have been watching the Villa. Loads of our younger fans loved him, because he had one good season, and he was a bit of a poser. I just found him lazy, missed LOADS of chances, and not really my type of player. I think a lot of people have fond memories of Angel because he was a great human being ... forget about all the conflicting opinions on his ability ... he was genuinely passionate about playing for Villa, and celebrated with such joy when he scored. Fans always love a player who plays with his heart on his sleeve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomzep Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 I wouldnt call him a real hero, but much nearer that than a flop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 not a hero not a flop. very good player, as proved in his first couple of seasons. but i think after that knee injury he was never the same again. he was never a fast player but losing that pace he did have meant he couldnt cut it in the prem anymore. i dont ge the "he was lazy" comments. from watching him in my opinion he always worked hard and tried his best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Hero. 20+ goals for us in one season, at that time, was a ridiculous abcheivment to be honest, our team was average at very, very best. Always gave his all, seemed to be a very good bloke and enjoy playing for the club. One of my favourite players ever to be honest (Bear in mind I am only 21!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashingqwerty Posted January 9, 2009 VT Supporter Share Posted January 9, 2009 HERO!!! was a shining light in what was in my opinion the worst squad we've had in my lifetime (born 1980) for the quality of the players we had he scored alot of goals and provided alot too were it not for the way he had been treated by the club when he first arrived, the misfortunes he had, and then the serious knee injury he could easily have been a superstar put him into the villa team now as he was at his prime and he'd easily score 20 a season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocafella Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Him having a hard time, not knowing the language and "being too scared to get a haircut" etc is all in all BS to me. We are talking about a grown man grossing some 40K a week to play football - him not being able to speak English or live in Birmingham was his problem. Good god, we are talking about a man not a little kid going to school abroad because his father is doing some trade there! Like I said earlier; decent player who struggled to get into form sometimes. Didn't he miss two penalties in one game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 I agree with most of what you said Rocafella except the new language thing, some people find it very difficult just to pick up a new language, especially a grown man. And yes, he did miss two penalties in one game, away to Fulham. Strangely, Andy Cole also missed a penalty for Fulham in that match! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocafella Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 1. Keeping us in the Prem - We all seem to forget so quickly how dark those days were and he scored the goals that IMHO kept us in the league for 1 or maybe 2 seasons that i believe if he wasnt there we could have gone down. 2. The way he was treated - When he moved to England and could hardly speak a word of English the club did nothing to help him adjust to life in England...i believe he once gave an interview in which he said he only grew his hair long because he lacked the English skills to find a decent hair dresser and communicate what he wanted done. 3. His family problems - Again, this was a problem with the club helping the players at the time. He lost a few members of his family if i remember correctly and he just carried on and showed a massive amount of commitment and courage. 1. Not exactly true is it? He also had seasons where his scoring ratio is very poor. In football there are no excuses, at least not over time. 2. Has this got anything to do with his performances on the pitch? Where it matter I mean... 3. Again, so what? People go through shit experiences all the time. I lost my best friend this year but I didn't quit my job... and neither did I get any extra treatment from the university I go to. And why should I? I know I am being extremely cold towards this subject now.... but anyhow, your opinion on Angel is based on everything that hasn't got anything to do with football. Like I said; his scoring ratio is poor and he often disappeared for months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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