TRL Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Not good considering we were playing to his strengths. We did? And the season you refer to, was the season he had his knee injury. So considering his great play with Nobby, and getting 23 his first and almost 10 then second after a bloody serious knee injury, suddenly it sounds pretty good eh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinity-Tom Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Not good considering we were playing to his strengths. We did? Well we played the same style of football as the season before where he scored 16 in the league, we just weren't as good. In my opinion that was largely due to JPA's goals drying up. So in my opinion we did. The team was moulded around him, perhaps that was the problem, perhaps not! Edit - I am aware that was when he had his serious knee injury but are you suggesting that I ignore his performances after this and imagine what might have been had he not been injured? It is clear that injuries resulted in his decline but whatever the reason, he has only sporadically hit the form which made many adore him! Therefore, he is far from a hero in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 when has Barry been a creative force? You should check his assist charts, its hardly impressing. God, let's not start this assists nonsense again. This was thoroughly disproven as a sensible statistic (and one that's only in the least bit relevent if you're a Fantasy Football fan) in two now-locked Barry threads. Anyone with two eyes in the front of their head can see that Barry is a supremely creative player. Anyhoo, that's for another thread. Which will probably end up locked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Anyone with two eyes in the front of their head can see that Barry is a supremely creative player You can say he is solid. He is a good footballer. Can cover many positions. But creative? Both statistics and people will tell you otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinity-Tom Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Anyone with two eyes in the front of their head can see that Barry is a supremely creative player You can say he is solid. He is a good footballer. Can cover many positions. But creative? Both statistics and people will tell you otherwise. Stats may support this, I don't think many people will but this is irrelevant to the current debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Anyone with two eyes in the front of their head can see that Barry is a supremely creative player You can say he is solid. He is a good footballer. Can cover many positions. But creative? Both statistics and people will tell you otherwise. Stats may support this, I don't think many people will but this is irrelevant to the current debate. Exactly. Gareth Barry is a creative player. Anyhoo...back to Angel. Do his stats support the fact that he has been a dreadful, bad, mediocre, good or excellent striker for us over the years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinity-Tom Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Do his stats support the fact that he has been a dreadful, bad, mediocre, good or excellent striker for us over the years? That is the key factor for me for a striker, not the only one but a highly significant one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Exactly. Gareth Barry is a creative player. Say it enough and it may come true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinity-Tom Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Exactly. Gareth Barry is a creative player. Say it enough and it may come true Let's not ruin this thread by arguing over something irrelevant. For the most part, this thread is quite a good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pelle Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Exactly. Gareth Barry is a creative player. Say it enough and it may come true Let's not ruin this thread by arguing over something irrelevant. For the most part, this thread is quite a good one. Agree with the first point, TT, not the other. To me it's just same old discussion about JPAs wonders and mistakes, greatness and lowness. Just one poster that usually writes in these threads that hasn't which means either that he hasn't read it or just realises that he can only vote and can't change anyones mind about JPa anyway. If so, good for him. Or maybe OF was right and he's still clicking the "Flop"-option several times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isgill88 Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 There have been times when he's a hero and times when he hasn't played so well. At times it didn't look like he was bothered to be out there, and others he has sped around that pitch like his life has depended on it. And though he hasn't lived up to his huge money transfer, he earned respect from the fans by the way he has conducted himself. Villa hero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jez Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Exactly. Gareth Barry is a creative player. Say it enough and it may come true Let's not ruin this thread by arguing over something irrelevant. For the most part, this thread is quite a good one. Missed doing it, as we have been playing well recently. Anyway can anyone really compare Angel to our past hero's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pelle Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Depends on how you're thinking, Jez. I would certainly not put him in the same bracket as God, Sid, Sir dEnnis, etc. But they are legendary. On the other hand, my biggest hero is Tony Daley. Was he the best player ever played for Villa? was he ****. But I liked him, he was my hero and still is. And he's not even close to the best. So, you see, being a hero doesn't always has to be with being among the best. a player can be a hero to some cause of how he plays, goals he scores, etc. No-one can tell anyone else if the guy is a hero to him or not. It's up to everyone to decide on their own. You can't count stats in to that. And the biggest part of this wasn't aimed specifically at you, jez, just a general point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Pelle just won the internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinity-Tom Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 It's up to everyone to decide on their own. You can't count stats in to that. Agree on the first point but the issue over stats is the main factor why I cannot class him as anything close to a hero. My favourite Villa players are Ian Taylor and Paul McGrath who both put in consistently good performances. That is the main criteria for me. That's not to say other things won't be considered and as an example of this, due to the manner of his departure, Dwight Yorke is not a favourite or hero of mine. I don't blame him for leaving but I dislike the way he stopped putting the effort in on the pitch when he was about to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pelle Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 It's up to everyone to decide on their own. You can't count stats in to that. Agree on the first point but the issue over stats is the main factor why I cannot class him as anything close to a hero. My favourite Villa players are Ian Taylor and Paul McGrath who both put in consistently good performances. That is the main criteria for me. That's not to say other things won't be considered and as an example of this, due to the manner of his departure, Dwight Yorke is not a favourite or hero of mine. I don't blame him for leaving but I dislike the way he stopped putting the effort in on the pitch when he was about to leave. And I can surely understand and even agree on that. But as you say, that's your criteria, and good ones too, but still not everyones criteria. In the end all this matters on how you look on different things, etc, and all too many feel they have to defend their opinions and why they see him as a hero or a flop, or in between which I think most do. But we don't have too. On the other hand, this forums is here for discussions so I don't mean we should stop with that. But to discuss why a player should/shouldn't be ones hero is just, well, pretty meaningless. Hands up those who's changed their minds through this thread. Who said that he was a hero at first and now changed to say he was a flop. Or the other side. No one? Surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clayton8321 Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Unfortunately for the most part... Angel has played (especially at his peak) on crap Villa teams. Once it was obviously the knee injury took away the little speed he had.. it was the perfect opportunity for Angel haters to say "I told you so". For me he deserved better.. on a better team.. with better player and better tactics.... just look at Crouch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinity-Tom Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 it was the perfect opportunity for Angel haters to say "I told you so". If you say so. Not sure who all these Angel haters are though. Just because people don't hold him in the same regard as other people do does not mean they hate him. As for the Crouch analogy well I see your point and accept it to a degree but the fact is he didn't make it at Villa and despite what might have been he cannot be seen as a success. Similar to Angel in many respects therefore for me although I don't hate him (Angel), in fact I like him, I just don't think he is as good or was as good as many others do/did! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clayton8321 Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Ooohh you've woken me up now... "shame there were no great players at Villa at his peak " - WHAT !!!!! Paul Merson, Gareth Barry, Dion Dublin, Steve Staunton, Mark Delaney, Nobby Solano and others none of these could create chances for strikers could they !!!! End of the day, nice bloke, hasn't done an Alpay, but then again, he is being paid £40k per week when that is probably more than he would earn in his life in Columbia so why would he bleat. And as for hero , there are only around 10 heroes at Villa and the last one was God so do me a favour...... Two things very obvious about this answer.... you dont know what "peak" means and you dont know how to spell Colombia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clayton8321 Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 someone said legendary goals too. Thats a joke, he has scored some v. good goals (e.g. Chelsea, Everton) but i doubt they will go down in villa folklore. And dont say what about coventry or bolton. The former was irrelevant in sending them down cus they were mathematically relegated irrespective of the result anyway and the latter was a fluke. But aren't most goals flukes being that certain things have to fall into place for them to happen? look no further then Gabby's goal last weekend when he totally whiffed on the ball and it appeared to come out of his brown eye for the goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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