clayton8321 Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Then Henry wouldnt have been a hero for you Tom, as not even him could have achieved good statistics with the squad and tactics we have played the last few years. Granted JPA didn't always have the best players around him to help, but to say that the likes of Merson, Solano and Barry didn't provide him with good opportunities or couldn't play at his level is nonsense. quote] Merson was an old ball of rags by the time Angel got there (plus he had settling in). Solano lasted 1 season. Barry wasn't as good as he is now when Angel was at his best. In fact I remember a lot of people slagging of Barry at that time while he was soiling his Premiership diapers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clayton8321 Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 when has Barry been a creative force? You should check his assist charts, its hardly impressing. Anyone with two eyes in the front of their head can see that Barry is a supremely creative player. Here are my two eyes :shock: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clayton8321 Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 it was the perfect opportunity for Angel haters to say "I told you so". If you say so. Not sure who all these Angel haters are though. Just because people don't hold him in the same regard as other people do does not mean they hate him. As for the Crouch analogy well I see your point and accept it to a degree but the fact is he didn't make it at Villa and despite what might have been he cannot be seen as a success. Similar to Angel in many respects therefore for me although I don't hate him (Angel), in fact I like him, I just don't think he is as good or was as good as many others do/did! Agree. As for the "haters" I'm just talking about the ones that bring on the heavy personal abuse. I don't think Gabby is as good as many think... but I've never said anything "hateful" about the guy.. and I constantly support him because he's a Villan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjw63 Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 If you say so. Not sure who all these Angel haters are though. The majority of them have been banned from this site Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 "shame there were no great players at Villa at his peak " - WHAT !!!!! Paul Merson, Gareth Barry, Dion Dublin, Steve Staunton, Mark Delaney, Nobby Solano and others none of these could create chances for strikers could they !!!! Im not gonna go into a debate regarding the accuracy of this statement, even though its flawed. But the part in bold is brilliant His last years at Villa, which you are refering to, was **** disgraceful IMO. Jesus christ ive never seen a worse left back at Villa ever. Samuel looks world class compared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 "shame there were no great players at Villa at his peak " - WHAT !!!!! Paul Merson, Gareth Barry, Dion Dublin, Steve Staunton, Mark Delaney, Nobby Solano and others none of these could create chances for strikers could they !!!! Im not gonna go into a debate regarding the accuracy of this statement, even though its flawed. But the part in bold is brilliant His last years at Villa, which you are refering to, was **** disgraceful IMO. Jesus christ ive never seen a worse left back at Villa ever. Samuel looks world class compared. why must the poster be referring to his 2nd spell at Villa, Tarj? Maybe he was referring to his 1st spell, when he was indeed excellent for us and was in his prime. Great player in his prime, Stan Staunton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 Because JPA wasnt a Villa player in the mid 90's :roll: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted April 13, 2007 Moderator Share Posted April 13, 2007 Jon I think you mis-understood. Someone was making the point that JPA DID in fact have great players around him at his peak. TRL was pointing out that the Staunton who was JPA's team-mate was long past his best and not a great player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 well yes, then the Stan reference is somewhat baffling, i'll agree. One coule also argue though that Dazz Vass was at his peak whilst he was with us & playing with JPA. He's certainly not attained the same level of performance since. TBH that was when both they and us were doing well, when JPA & Dazz we're firing well together up front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted April 13, 2007 Moderator Share Posted April 13, 2007 Don't want to get involved in the nitty gritty of the discussion other than to say that under no criteria I can think of can Darius Vassell ever be described as a great player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 maybe not Bri. Not sure Delaney can either then TBH. Played for England more times than Barry though :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 Don't want to get involved in the nitty gritty of the discussion other than to say that under no criteria I can think of can Darius Vassell ever be described as a great player. No, I'd agree. But I also don't think he can be discounted for this argument, considering that during JPA's "peak" he was an England international with an excellent scoring record (albeit better for country than club). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 Like an international record means anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 On the flip side of this "JPA needs to play with superb & in form players at their peak to bring the best out of him" argument, cannot one also venture the argument that surely a player of his talents should be expected to shine head and shoulders above his team mates if those team mates are, for want of a better word, rubbish? Because he doesn't, and rarely has. Even when we've had bad seasons, the players I can think that were standing out were Ollie and Barry. The argument that player X can/will only come good when played in a team full of superstars seems a rather weak one IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 Oh i think JPA has been standing out most of the seasons. People just assume strikers who doesnt score a consistent amount of goals are shit. I guess they also found Dion Dublin shit. The Premier League is a world class league, some claim the best. You CANT score goals unless you have a midfield and team behind you to deliver the goods. We dont have it, and havent had it for a long time now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted April 13, 2007 Moderator Share Posted April 13, 2007 The opposite of hero would be villain, he's by no means a villain. I'm not sure he's a hero either, but he's certainly earned respect. The opposite of flop is success, his goalscoring record is worse than Julian Joachims, and nobody really thinks back to the glories of Julians goalscoring seasons so as a striker I'm not sure he can be considered entirely successful. He's not quite a hero and not quite a flop, but if I was voting in the poll I'd try to click both boxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted April 13, 2007 Moderator Share Posted April 13, 2007 The opposite of flop is success I think flip might have something to say about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 You CANT score goals unless you have a midfield and team behind you to deliver the goods. whilst i appreciate the point, i think you need to try telling that to Darren Bent, as he doesn't seem to understand this ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 Yakubu might have something to say about it as well. It's not as if George Boateng and Lee Cattermole are the reincarnations of Puskas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted April 13, 2007 Moderator Share Posted April 13, 2007 Who played behind Andy Johnson at Palace ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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