chrisp65 Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 When I was a kid there was this place called Yugoslavia. Then in the 90s, we suddenly started hearing the names of places that for me only existed in history books about the causes of the First World War - Serbia, Bosnia, Croatia. The very mention of them seemed almost comical, like "Ruritania". Now we're getting Sebastopol and Balaclava - the Crimean War again. History is looping. best get transport links to Hastings sorted out asap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villarule123 Posted March 2, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted March 2, 2014 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Anne Applebaum @anneapplebaum 3h Hearing rumors, hopefully false, that UK is blocking financial sanctions on Russian officials: London too dependent on money laundering Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Hungary 56 - the west did nothing. Czechoslovakia 68 - the west did nothing. Ukraine 14 - the west will do nothing. Probably just as well, on balance.The 56 uprising was another shameful day in NATO history when they betrayed the Hungarians .. The Russians had gone and then turned around and came back when the NATO betrayed Hungary Fixed. With apologies to Kipling: "It's US this and US that and 'kick him out the brute'but it's star clad bunch of 'eroes when the guns begin to shoot." 70 years since the end of the war and still Europe cowers behind American skirts - while bitching about them to each other and slashing our military forces. Europe = hypocritical weaklings. The Americans don't always get it right but at least they can be relied upon to turn up. Nah Hungary was very much the US ... They sent private cables to Tito in Yugoslavia knowing full well he was the Kremlins puppet and would pass them on NATO and the UK played a part in proceedings but the US played Judas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 You could make a case for saying "Fair play to the Russians, at least they can be relied upon to turn up" - they're currently the only country trying to do something about the Ukraine. Well yes they are trying to do something with Ukraine, steal it mostly. Looking at the evidence of the last few years I suppose Putin's reaction to Russia's puppet President being chased out of Kiev shouldn't be all that surprising... If you live in a neighbouring country but fancy better ties to the West he'll invade you. If you criticise Putin in Russia he'll jail you, if you criticise him abroad he'll have you assassinated. Now he justifies invading Ukraine in order to protect the minority "ethnic Russians", a demographic characteristic shared by many of the ex Soviet occupied states and (Goodwin alert) the casus belli used by old Adolph himself back in the day for a little expansionary activity in central Europe. I'd suggest the last thing most Ukrainians want is the Russians turning up. Well that's not good. If the army follows suit, Ukraine will be annexed. The Ukrainian navy was never going to have a big role in this and to be honest any forces they had in the Crimea were effectively lost as soon as Russia took the key infrastructure and surged troops in by air. I'd be very surprised if the army in Ukraine proper went the same way. Strongly suspect the Russians will keep trying to provoke an armed response though in order to justify seizing the east of the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electric Avenue Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 I don't think they're "stealing" Ukraine, merely remarking their border as it was under the USSR. No way could Moscow standby and do nothing with chaos on its doorstep . I don't necessarily agree but can understand the call Putin has had to make Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 The chaos doesn't bother Russia, just look at Syria. What matters is keeping NATO from their door. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 ...merely remarking their border as it was under the USSR... Ignoring the euphemistic nature of the expression, that ought to leave a number of countries as worried as hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electric Avenue Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 The chaos doesn't bother Russia, just look at Syria. What matters is keeping NATO from their door. Syria isn't on it's doorstep though is it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Why Russia No Longer Fears the West Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PompeyVillan Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Putin is gambling that international sanctions won't last like with what happened in Georgia. It's unlikely to end in all out war with Russia, they know that they can act with impunity because who is going to want to try to stop them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry condemned Russia for what he called an "incredible act of aggression" and threatened "very serious repercussions". "You don't just, in the 21st century, behave in 19th century fashion by invading another country on completely trumped-up pretext," Kerry told CBS program Face the Nation. Incredible. Kerry voted for invading Iraq. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 It's not an invasion, it's a Soviet Reunion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted March 2, 2014 Author Share Posted March 2, 2014 Meanwhile China is hoping a full blown war breaks out and weakens all parties involved... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 This is all a bit strange. Western Europe ready for a mass migration of pissed off Ukrainians? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 (edited) The most interesting fact about Russia as far as I am concerned is that its GDP is smaller than the UK's and yet its head honcho Putin is listed by Forbes magazine as the most powerful person in the world. GDP: UK = 2,417,600 USD Russia = 2,029,812 USD It seems rather counter-intuitive. Edited March 2, 2014 by MakemineVanilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Russia sits on top of more natural resources that most other countries though, a lot of their power comes from that. I think half of Europe freezes should they decide to turn the gas off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 (edited) I also don't think you can necessarily tie the power of a leader to that of the nation - the oversight within the country comes in to it. Putin's power comes from being able to (allegedly ) use Russia to do whatever the **** he wants without concerning himself with things like constitutions or free and fair elections. Edited March 2, 2014 by Davkaus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PompeyVillan Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 So when fracking companies come calling what they should really do is polarise the issue as fracking or Putin. Would you rather a fracking station outside your window or a t-34? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 So when fracking companies come calling what they should really do is polarise the issue as fracking or Putin. Would you rather a fracking station outside your window or a t-34? or wind turbines which are protested against? or fields of solar panels in Dorset which people campaign against, or bio fuel power stations, or the Severn Barrage and on and on and on or, even more radical, we could seriously invest in energy efficiency and insulation, we could ban office blocks leaving thousands of computers on standby all night and all weekend, we could stop factories leaving all the light on all night when the last shift went home hours ago, we could stop shops having open frontages and blasting heat onto the High Street or we can accept that to have cheap fuel and whirring unattended games consoles, Balaclava may just have to be Russian 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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