Why Paul Lambert should get the sack

[tomh621]

 

I am going to stick my neck out here and say that we the fans have to stick with PL. The guy killing our club is LERNER!

In very recent times like many I have been very critical of PL and even now find it very hard to defend him, especially after the last two games.

BUT when the game started today I looked at the 1st 11 and the subs and actually felt sorry for him. We didn't even have one outfield defender on the bench: El Ahmadi, Helenius, Albrighton, Steer, Sylla, Bowery, Kozák

Lambert maybe stupidly decided to leave Norwich and take on the AVFC challenge. He inherited a dysfunctional squad which included Collins, Warnock, Dunne, Hutton, Makoun and lazy ***** like Ireland and Bent. Our best GK; Guzan had been released. He inherited the useless Holman a Mcleish signing and too cap it all sadly there was no prospect of our team captain Petrov coming back.

His first jobs were to get rid of the big earners, cut the wage bill, then find sufficient players quickly to make up our depleted squad while working within an imposed wage cap and limited transfer budget. Dempsey turned us down for Fulham (low wages) and we signed a bunch of lower league/foreign players. As I have said maybe he was stupid to take on the job but most wanted him and didn't realise the constraints he had agreed to.

OGS had been warned off Villa by Ferguson who obviously knew Lerner was mandating that costs had to be cut (too) quickly. Martinez turned us down (twice) when he heard the deal being offered and preferred Everton who hadn't imposed such ridiculous financial constraints.

I may regret this but I am going to start supporting Lambert again because he accepted the poisoned chalice when others wouldn't and hope (maybe against hope) that he can turn this mess around.

LERNER OUT!!!!

Yes that's right, lambert isn't responsible for coaching the players that he bought. Lambert doesn't pick the team, didn't buy a striker when we needed a creative midfielder, isn't responsible for the poor tactics. All of that is Lerner's fault !

What drivel.

 

Everyone makes mistakes jesus. He bought shit players because he's got a shit budget. Mourinho and the like have it easy because who the **** doesn't notice players everyone RAVES on about and then their owner gives them 50 mil!! AVFC IS A CHALLENGE. Like on football manager (jesus christ i actually went there)

 

 

The way the players and Gabby ran to the coaching team today - they obviously get on well. 

 

They mostly ignored Lambert. Has he lost the dressing room??

 

 

I don't believe that for a second. Quite the opposite in fact. At the final whistle today he went on to the pitch and to a man shook hands with or embraced all the players. I found both that and the jubilant way he spoke on the radio interviews afterwards quite worrying. He acted like it was a job well done for the team when in fact we'd held out for a draw at home against Swansea and had just 27% possession and one decent shot on target all game. The bar seems to have hit rock bottom and that result/performance today is now seen as an achievement.

 

Not an achievement more like a well done or trying hug.

[MikeMcKenna]

As I said I will find it very hard to defend him, but IF it is true that he was told that he had a very limited wage budget I am not certain he could have signed much better and gambled on kids and foreign players - clearly many haven't worked out but the fact that Martinez turned us down twice must tell us something about the constraints. I don't know a lot about the average wages of premiership standard players but my sense is that Lambert didn't have any choice.

If Lerner told lambert that there was little money for wages and the budget was tight, how is everything Lerner's fault ? Lambert clearly understood whatever constraints were in place and felt he could operate within them.

The problem is not financial, most of the team that played the final half of last season are still with us. We played some promising football between February and May, and yet Lambert tinkered with things to such an extent that this year we're a team of strangers once again.

Lambert gas spent over £40M since he arrived. In the same time, Steve Bruce he spent around £20M, got Hull promoted and looks to be establishing them in the premier league. In the same period, Everton have spent £47M and are now challenging for champions league football. The budget is not the problem, Lambert is just not up to the job.

IMO The problem was and still is financial. If you read my posts you will see I questioned whether lambert was stupid to have accepted the job in the first place. Maybe he thought he could take a radical approach and has been found out.

We will have to agree to disagree, as for the foreseeable future, I have set out my stall and decided to back the manager - as you say "we played some promising football" in the past under lambert, and my hope! however forlorn it may currently seem is that he can get them to click again. If I am wrong, I am wrong but we will see. I think there is no way he is going to get fired in the short term and prefer to back him for now as I see no alternative option.

[markavfc40]

 

 

I don't believe that for a second. Quite the opposite in fact. At the final whistle today he went on to the pitch and to a man shook hands with or embraced all the players. I found both that and the jubilant way he spoke on the radio interviews afterwards quite worrying. He acted like it was a job well done for the team when in fact we'd held out for a draw at home against Swansea and had just 27% possession and one decent shot on target all game. The bar seems to have hit rock bottom and that result/performance today is now seen as an achievement.

 

Not an achievement more like a well done or trying hug.

 

 

Whatever way you want to describe it I find it worrying that he appears to see getting a draw at home against a side one point above us and also on a poor run of form as a job well done. Especially when you consider we had 27% possession and one decent shot on target which thankfully we scored from. Surely not even the most one eyed Villa fan would suggest we served up anything other than utter tripe today. A fair bit of effort I'll grant you but little else.

 

Things need to change quickly as if we continue to perform as we are I fear we will get a good hiding sooner rather than later. We are five games without a win and just one draw and with what is to come after Sunderland we need to secure three points there. I am desperate for Lambert to show that the faith I had in him when he was appointed, and have maintained until this last few weeks, was warranted but I fear my recent grave doubts are going to be confirmed.

Edited December 29, 2013 by markavfc40

[StefanAVFC]

 

I don't want us to sack Paul Lambert right now, because it wouldn't do any good I think. No person with any respect for themselves would point out this job and think they can do anything to rectify our position. A new candidate wouldn't be able to forge his own identity in half a season, and especially not with this squad. Even though we have gotten a lot of very poor footballers and young players without any talent, they are still Lambert's players and they trust the manager I would assume. A new guy wouldn't make it better in such a short time and we would risk making it even worse. Lambert got us into this mess by employing naive tactics, buying poor players and so on, he must be the one to get us out of it before the season ends. If the system is still wildly failing come May, then the chairman can make a decision based on the season as a whole.

 

I just looked at the statistics from today's game, and over 90 minutes we managed to complete 144 successful passes. That is 1.6 passes pr. minute in average. Even Crystal Palace managed to do better away to Manchester City, Norwich had 297 passes against Man Utd and even Fulham had 359 completed passes against Hull when they lost 6-0. Now I am not the one to put much emphasize on completed passes in general, because like we saw Fulham did lose 6-0 to a very poor Hull, but I think Lambert contradicted himself wildly in his post-match interview. He was given the stats about our 27% possession in the game, and he brushed it off because he said possession didn't win you games - goals did. That is correct sir, but how the hell are you going to win a football game when you have 1.6 passes pr. minute and hold the ball for 27% of the time? Look at our games, we never score! We miraculously won at Soton employing the same nightmare, but we all should be smart enough to understand that lightning does actually strike now and again - but any club with those numbers will most likely relegate over the course of 38 games. If we are not even managing to pass the ball to each other or completing more passes, then there is something ridiculously wrong with the manager, the training, the setup and the way the players relate to these things. Sort it out!

hello mr paul lambert laughable post

 

 

Good points, well made.

 

Did you just read the opening sentence? Try to read the entire post (which criticises Lambert quite a lot and fairly) before making a comment, there's a good chap.

Edited December 29, 2013 by StefanAVFC

[Papillon]

I don't think Lambert has necessarily lost the dressing room. That usually happens when the players believe they as a collective are much better than the manager is capable of, and in this instance we know that he has gotten most of them up from lower leagues and Micky Mouse leagues around Europe. Sure, I would understand if seasoned Villans like Gabby and also Benteke were disgruntled, but all of the others would be extremely happy just to be present. I mean, players like Guzan (no contract mind), Westwood, Luna, Baker, Clark, Bacuna and the lot wouldn't have a reason to be pissed at him. Firstly, most of them are probably checking the line-up every week because they know they aren't automatically good enough and had it not been for Lambert they would have been playing at the level they should have played in, at Crewe, in Poland, at Chesterfield and so on.

 

It's tough to lose the dressing room when we have no leaders and no stand-out players. Benteke, by far our best player, is barely in the top 100 bracket in the Premier League these days. If he was banging in the goals and carrying the team as we expected, then he would have a case. Delph, another player we have some faith in compared to all the others, should be very grateful for the support he has gotten the last few years.

 

I don't know anything about the state of affairs, but the atmosphere in that dressing room must be incredibly bad right now. We can all imagine the dark days when we lost 15-0 in three games last season, that must have been seriously low, but now I guess it can become even worse since a year has passed and the development has obviously not happened. We lack leadership, we have no British personalities with several years under their belt in the Premier League (well, there's Gabby of course but is he a leader like Roy Keane or someone like that?), we have tons of kids not finding their feet and they have no-one to look at in terms of assurance. Imagine being Tonev or Luna sitting in there, not understanding a single word of what Lambert is preaching after you just played another miserable match, then you look to the left and there's Jordan Bowery and Nathan Baker - players so lost from this level it even makes them look like Ronaldo and Roberto Carlos.

Edited December 29, 2013 by Papillon

[Wes]

A concerning amount of opinions being shouted down in this thread, and on the forum as a whole recently really, simply because their opinion differs to what the more vocal users think or what the most popular thought is at this moment in time.

 

Personally, my main thought is this: I'm loathe to spend more money paying off a manager and backroom staff's contracts yet again. Say, just for the sake of this argument, we have £5m to spend in January. Would you rather spend all that money changing coaches, or try to get at least one fresh face in the starting line up that isn't a loan? That's the question I've been asking myself and I slightly lean towards keeping Lambert.

 

That's not to say I'm happy with the way he is currently managing at all. Ignoring Vlaar and Benteke's most recent injuries, this is the same group of players he had last year for the most part. I don't think it's so much that the players have regressed, as I personally think that's balanced out in other areas of the pitch currently, for example Weimann's bad form this year is inversely proportional to Delph's improvement this season, in my eyes. What has been most disappointing is the way we've been set up to play teams. A few years ago Lambert was getting praise for his tactical acumen, particularly in being able to make good changes during the match. We've barely seen that recently, the triple substitution gambit at West Brom perhaps being the last, and I think his overall tactical ability has regressed this season compared to last. To me it currently looks like he is bumbling from game to game trying to get a setup to magically stick and it's not coming off for us.

 

So whilst we're being setup rather counter intuitively (in my amateur opinion) and waiting on some injured players to return we're going to struggle. And despite that we're still at 20 points halfway in to the season. I honestly can't tell if this is a good thing in the vein of Manchester United's freaky way of managing to get points whilst playing poorly, or the beginning (or middle, if you like) of the end of our stay in this league.

 

There are plenty of other points that could be gone in to detail. The "value" of our summer signings. The January market. Alternative managers available to name but a few. For now, I'll slightly side with sticking with Lambert. He played at least some part in getting this young team to perform again after our nightmare Christmas last year and again, would rather spend money on strengthening the players in the squad than giving people late Christmas present severance packages.

 

Those are just my observations as a casual observer. I'm sure they differ to others. But as I stated at the top of this post, that should always be treated as a good thing, particularly on an open forum such as this. If we only ever read or heard what we wanted to hear we would end up listening to just ourselves, and how sad would that be.

[Bunnski]

We should get jesus to manage us. no doubt he would be able to get us playing amazing football while signing players on 15k per week contracts. oops just remembered he doesnt exist

[Dodgyknees]

We should get jesus to manage us. no doubt he would be able to get us playing amazing football while signing players on 15k per week contracts. oops just remembered he doesnt exist

Not sure the owner exists either!

[thetrees]

I am going to stick my neck out here and say that we the fans have to stick with PL. The guy killing our club is LERNER!

In very recent times like many I have been very critical of PL and even now find it very hard to defend him, especially after the last two games.

BUT when the game started today I looked at the 1st 11 and the subs and actually felt sorry for him. We didn't even have one outfield defender on the bench: El Ahmadi, Helenius, Albrighton, Steer, Sylla, Bowery, Kozák

Lambert maybe stupidly decided to leave Norwich and take on the AVFC challenge. He inherited a dysfunctional squad which included Collins, Warnock, Dunne, Hutton, Makoun and lazy ***** like Ireland and Bent. Our best GK; Guzan had been released. He inherited the useless Holman a Mcleish signing and too cap it all sadly there was no prospect of our team captain Petrov coming back.

His first jobs were to get rid of the big earners, cut the wage bill, then find sufficient players quickly to make up our depleted squad while working within an imposed wage cap and limited transfer budget. Dempsey turned us down for Fulham (low wages) and we signed a bunch of lower league/foreign players. As I have said maybe he was stupid to take on the job but most wanted him and didn't realise the constraints he had agreed to.

OGS had been warned off Villa by Ferguson who obviously knew Lerner was mandating that costs had to be cut (too) quickly. Martinez turned us down (twice) when he heard the deal being offered and preferred Everton who hadn't imposed such ridiculous financial constraints.

I may regret this but I am going to start supporting Lambert again because he accepted the poisoned chalice when others wouldn't and hope (maybe against hope) that he can turn this mess around.

LERNER OUT!!!!

Interesting.

Disregarding the obvious inaccuracy that is Dempsey, and the speculative inaccuracies that are OGS and Martinez it is clear to see that the anti-Lerner camp fail to separate things, and use the failings of our incredibly poor manager as a stick to beat the owner with.

Lambert summed it up for me with his post-match interview-things will be better when Benteke is back. So his no passing, no possession football is here to stay, and once Brad can lump it to the big Belgian once again, we may start picking up some points.

Whether Lerner should stay or go is constantly debated, but even if he should, his going will be complicated and will take time. The removal of the team manager is something that is uncomplicated and should be actioned immediately.

[jacketspuds]

I was disheartened by his 606 interview after the game last night, He said something along the lines of "Villa are a massive club, but this is built on what happened in the past."

 

He also responded to a question about the 27% possession by asking the interviewer what the score was and stating that it's the number of goals that count.

 

I'm concerned that he is trying to manage everyone's expectations to "as long we finish 17th at worst things will be fine". His tactical ability has really been shown up this season.

 

What I don't understand is why a midfield with Westwood and KEA in it struggles to pass. When we signed KEA didn't he have one of the best pass completion rates in the Eredivisie? Slower league I know but we are struggling with the basics. I get the impression that Lambert just wants our defenders to lump it to the strikers, bypassing the midfield and putting us straight back under pressure.

 

After the end of last season there is no justification for the terrible football we are playing at the moment. It's like we aren't even trying to play the game.

[VillaCas]

I really wanted Lambert to do well here. I really thought Lambert would do well here. I bought into the "young and hungry" philosophy,  and at time have been quite proud of it. But it doesn't work. The players aren't learning quick enough, they're not developing quick enough, and quite frankly, buying "young and hungry" players just doesn't work. Every club would be doing it if it did.

 

I was all for getting rid of Ireland, Dunne, Collins, Bent, Warnock, Hutton etc.... but with the hope that the players brought in would be better than them. But they're not. Benteke aside, none of the players Lambert has bought in are better than the players they have replaced. The sooner both Lambert and Lerner piss off the better. I can accept not winning games if we were entertaining to watch. Afterall, football is supposed to be entertainment... isn't it? There's nothing entertaining about going to Villa Park. It's a lot of money to spend to watch complete and utter shite. I'm really not bothered about going to Villa Park now. I'd rather just stay in the pub. Watching this "football" is just awful. Seriously cant put 3 passes together, it's depressing. 4 years on the bounce now we've been absolutely awful to watch, I wonder why I bother paying the £500 for a season ticket just to be bored.

 

The sad thing is, the way Lerner is now running the club i really don't believe we could find a better manager then Lambert. 

 

They cost less than 50% of the players they replaced, they earn 25% of the players they replaced and yet they have delivered better points total and a better league position.

 

[Risso]

Other managers have shown what their footballing philosophy is without any money.  Look at Martinez, kept Wigan up for years with not much money and crowds of 18,000, but always tried to play good football in doing so.  Has now moved on to Everton where he is replicating that playing style with better players and Everton are doing well as a result.

 

Whether you think £43m is enough on new players or not, the fact is that Lambert's footballing style is atrocious, and his footballing philosophy non-existent.  There's no discernible shape, tactics or plan to what we're trying to do, and even if he was given more money to spend in January, I think he'd be just as shambolic but with better players.  Give me a manager who wants his team to play football any day of the week.

[Butterfingers]

I think people are reading too much into the attitude after drawing at home to Swansea.

 

At the start of the season, you would look at the fixture & class it as winnable. After 4 straight defeats (3 against poor sides) the important thing was to stop the rot & this is what we achieved (just)

 

The situation reminds me so much of last season & with Arsenal, Liverpool & WBA looming, January could well be a tough month for us.

 

Lets get to the end of the season before we evaluate, not just on this bad run of form.

[jacketspuds]

Other managers have shown what their footballing philosophy is without any money.  Look at Martinez, kept Wigan up for years with not much money and crowds of 18,000, but always tried to play good football in doing so.  Has now moved on to Everton where he is replicating that playing style with better players and Everton are doing well as a result.

 

Whether you think £43m is enough on new players or not, the fact is that Lambert's footballing style is atrocious, and his footballing philosophy non-existent.  There's no discernible shape, tactics or plan to what we're trying to do, and even if he was given more money to spend in January, I think he'd be just as shambolic but with better players.  Give me a manager who wants his team to play football any day of the week.

 

This. The problem is finding a manager that plays that way. Poyet seems to be keen to do that at Sunderland but I wouldn't want him as our manager.

 

What annoys me more than anything is how the current manager made all the right noises about attacking passing football when he joined, with glimpses of it last season, yet we resort to the dross we now see every week. 

[VillaCas]

I was disheartened by his 606 interview after the game last night, He said something along the lines of "Villa are a massive club, but this is built on what happened in the past."

 

He also responded to a question about the 27% possession by asking the interviewer what the score was and stating that it's the number of goals that count.

 

I'm concerned that he is trying to manage everyone's expectations to "as long we finish 17th at worst things will be fine". His tactical ability has really been shown up this season.

 

What I don't understand is why a midfield with Westwood and KEA in it struggles to pass. When we signed KEA didn't he have one of the best pass completion rates in the Eredivisie? Slower league I know but we are struggling with the basics. I get the impression that Lambert just wants our defenders to lump it to the strikers, bypassing the midfield and putting us straight back under pressure.

 

After the end of last season there is no justification for the terrible football we are playing at the moment. It's like we aren't even trying to play the game.

 

Pass completion is not "the basics" - in the dutch league you will look like your good because you will have time, in the Premiership you will get no time.

 

Posters keep saying we just need "stick to the basics"and "pass and move" - like it's the easiest thing in the world.  If it were, you'd think that most managers would have worked that out by now

 

You play if you are allowed to or if you are better than your opponent - £10k a week players are unlikely to be better than £50k a week players

 

Personally, that we are competitive at all on the budget we have is an acheivement (please don't quote the £40m figure again - we have lost players that cost £80m and are working with a circa £60m squad against £120-£350m squads. In any case it's be clearly proven that performance correlates to wages not to fees)

[VillaCas]

Other managers have shown what their footballing philosophy is without any money.  Look at Martinez, kept Wigan up for years with not much money and crowds of 18,000, but always tried to play good football in doing so.  Has now moved on to Everton where he is replicating that playing style with better players and Everton are doing well as a result.

 

Whether you think £43m is enough on new players or not, the fact is that Lambert's footballing style is atrocious, and his footballing philosophy non-existent.  There's no discernible shape, tactics or plan to what we're trying to do, and even if he was given more money to spend in January, I think he'd be just as shambolic but with better players.  Give me a manager who wants his team to play football any day of the week.

 

Right up until he didn't keep them up

 

[Richard]

Cant be arsed with the debate - (again) - but wouldn't like the thread to be unrepresentative ! For me it is simple. In order to get off the stupid Manager merry go round (suddenly Bruce and Jol are going to be in favour...who will it be next month) that so many teams fall for and ultimately fail because of, we have to name our man and stick with him for 3 years. As it happens I think Pl will get it right and we are just currently in a downward part of an overall upward curve...but even if I didn't think so I still think the guy we have has to have 3 years. Otherwise we will definitely ALWAYS be bobbing around 18th-9th. The only possible way out is to be brave and bold and stick with a guy to let his plans come to fruititon.yes I know at the moment anyone could level any number of negatives, but thats the only way as I see it.

brilliant post terry

[jacketspuds]

 

I was disheartened by his 606 interview after the game last night, He said something along the lines of "Villa are a massive club, but this is built on what happened in the past."

 

He also responded to a question about the 27% possession by asking the interviewer what the score was and stating that it's the number of goals that count.

 

I'm concerned that he is trying to manage everyone's expectations to "as long we finish 17th at worst things will be fine". His tactical ability has really been shown up this season.

 

What I don't understand is why a midfield with Westwood and KEA in it struggles to pass. When we signed KEA didn't he have one of the best pass completion rates in the Eredivisie? Slower league I know but we are struggling with the basics. I get the impression that Lambert just wants our defenders to lump it to the strikers, bypassing the midfield and putting us straight back under pressure.

 

After the end of last season there is no justification for the terrible football we are playing at the moment. It's like we aren't even trying to play the game.

 

Pass completion is not "the basics" - in the dutch league you will look like your good because you will have time, in the Premiership you will get no time.

 

Posters keep saying we just need "stick to the basics"and "pass and move" - like it's the easiest thing in the world.  If it were, you'd think that most managers would have worked that out by now

 

You play if you are allowed to or if you are better than your opponent - £10k a week players are unlikely to be better than £50k a week players

 

Personally, that we are competitive at all on the budget we have is an acheivement (please don't quote the £40m figure again - we have lost players that cost £80m and are working with a circa £60m squad against £120-£350m squads. In any case it's be clearly proven that performance correlates to wages not to fees)

 

 

I didn't think I did quote the £40m figure in the first place?

[jacketspuds]

 

Other managers have shown what their footballing philosophy is without any money.  Look at Martinez, kept Wigan up for years with not much money and crowds of 18,000, but always tried to play good football in doing so.  Has now moved on to Everton where he is replicating that playing style with better players and Everton are doing well as a result.

 

Whether you think £43m is enough on new players or not, the fact is that Lambert's footballing style is atrocious, and his footballing philosophy non-existent.  There's no discernible shape, tactics or plan to what we're trying to do, and even if he was given more money to spend in January, I think he'd be just as shambolic but with better players.  Give me a manager who wants his team to play football any day of the week.

 

Right up until he didn't keep them up

 

 

 

I personally think Martinez did very well keeping them up for as long as he did, and winning the FA Cup last season.

[Richard]

I really wanted Lambert to do well here. I really thought Lambert would do well here. I bought into the "young and hungry" philosophy,  and at time have been quite proud of it. But it doesn't work. The players aren't learning quick enough, they're not developing quick enough, and quite frankly, buying "young and hungry" players just doesn't work. Every club would be doing it if it did.

 

I was all for getting rid of Ireland, Dunne, Collins, Bent, Warnock, Hutton etc.... but with the hope that the players brought in would be better than them. But they're not. Benteke aside, none of the players Lambert has bought in are better than the players they have replaced. The sooner both Lambert and Lerner piss off the better. I can accept not winning games if we were entertaining to watch. Afterall, football is supposed to be entertainment... isn't it? There's nothing entertaining about going to Villa Park. It's a lot of money to spend to watch complete and utter shite. I'm really not bothered about going to Villa Park now. I'd rather just stay in the pub. Watching this "football" is just awful. Seriously cant put 3 passes together, it's depressing. 4 years on the bounce now we've been absolutely awful to watch, I wonder why I bother paying the £500 for a season ticket just to be bored.

 

The sad thing is, the way Lerner is now running the club i really don't believe we could find a better manager then Lambert.

 

They cost less than 50% of the players they replaced, they earn 25% of the players they replaced and yet they have delivered better points total and a better league position.

good points cas , statistics that aren't often used but equally relevant