Why Paul Lambert should get the sack

[davemk39]

I don't care who the next manager is as long as he's not SCOTTISH.

[VillaCas]

 

So really can't use specifics to answer the question which isn't surprising since there aren't any of Lambert's signings which are out performing those that were already here. 

 

 

As usual and as always you are making up your own questions - I have not argued that any one of Lamberts team is better or worse than any one of McL's. What I am arguing and what is indisputable is that collectively they earnt more points and a better league position than McL's team whilst costing half as much and earning a quarter as much.....so to be specific - better all round

[StanBalaban]

 

Stoke are also a prime example of why changing manager can bring about a reverse in fortunes.

Palace get rid of their clueless twunt and replace him for Pullis. Now look at them - they're winning games and could quite easily have gotten a draw at the Etihad.

Same group of players; what's changed?

Pretty much this. 

 

But then you could argue that Hughes, the saviour of Stoke, was sacked and replaced by Redknapp at QPR  and they still went down (after paying shitloads of money too).

 

Now Hughes has replaced Pulis at Stoke, yet Pulis is seen as a genius at Palace, and Hughes is great for Stoke? What was to say he wouldn't (or still won't) replicate his form from QPR at Stoke?

 

After a season of hoofball, will short sighted Palace fans be sick of Pulis style football and crave for a more passing flow.  "Hmmm....someone like Holloway, but not him cos we sacked him. Let's get someone equally as capable but different..."

 

Changing the manager doesn't mean squat unless it's for someone better, otherwise you're changing for the hope of something different.

Edited December 29, 2013 by StanBalaban

[VillaCas]

 

Stoke are also a prime example of why changing manager can bring about a reverse in fortunes.

Palace get rid of their clueless twunt and replace him for Pullis. Now look at them - they're winning games and could quite easily have gotten a draw at the Etihad.

Same group of players; what's changed?

Pretty much this. 

 

 

So something happened in one example over a handful of games and there it must be true for every team everywhere always???......pretty much this

 

[VillaCas]

 

 

 Seems to be a one man crusade here Cas.If you are happy with PLs team fine, i think we are shit atm, and i blame PL, i thought we was shit under McL, and i blamed MON and McL.I'm at the stage now that i am happy to finish half way in The Prem, i don't think PL is up to that, or that McL was.

 

 You can dress it up as much as you like, we arae an awful football team atm, and i just want to see some football after having none for 3/4 years.

 

Just trying to balance out the argument, I didnt lobby for PL to come here but now he is I want to see him given time and see what can be achieved with decent/average resources. I see nothing to be gained by changing manager

 

No I'm not happy with PLs side, I also think we're a bit shit but I blame Lerner

 

Finishing halfway in the prem would be an achievment given the resources deployed so far

 

http://www.squawka.com/news/2013/07/09/value-index-part-1/2013070912877

 

You either think this is true or you don't - if you don't then I can understand why you would imagine that all of a sudden you can start knockingthe ball around like Barcelona

 

Ha, ha. You go from one extreme to the other mate to try and prove a point.

 

No-one expects the same performance level as Barca but they do expect to see better than the drivel Lambert has got the team playing for three quarters of last season and the majority of this season. 

 

 

Wages = Performance. It's not rocket science

 

We underachieved under McL (the analysis I linked to estimates by 9 points), we are probably overacheiving slightly under Lambert

[AstonMartin82]

Stoke are also a prime example of why changing manager can bring about a reverse in fortunes.

Palace get rid of their clueless twunt and replace him for Pullis. Now look at them - they're winning games and could quite easily have gotten a draw at the Etihad.

Same group of players; what's changed?

 

So you want to get rid of a mid table manager and replace him with another mid table manager? Seriously, what is the point?

 

You are too short sighted. In a couple of weeks if Stoke lose, Palace lose, and Villa win then all of a sudden Lambert will be a much better manager than the other two.

 

I wish the majority football fans would think longer term than 2 weeks ahead.

[Morpheus]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I was disheartened by his 606 interview after the game last night, He said something along the lines of "Villa are a massive club, but this is built on what happened in the past."

 

He also responded to a question about the 27% possession by asking the interviewer what the score was and stating that it's the number of goals that count.

 

I'm concerned that he is trying to manage everyone's expectations to "as long we finish 17th at worst things will be fine". His tactical ability has really been shown up this season.

 

What I don't understand is why a midfield with Westwood and KEA in it struggles to pass. When we signed KEA didn't he have one of the best pass completion rates in the Eredivisie? Slower league I know but we are struggling with the basics. I get the impression that Lambert just wants our defenders to lump it to the strikers, bypassing the midfield and putting us straight back under pressure.

 

After the end of last season there is no justification for the terrible football we are playing at the moment. It's like we aren't even trying to play the game.

 

Pass completion is not "the basics" - in the dutch league you will look like your good because you will have time, in the Premiership you will get no time.

 

Posters keep saying we just need "stick to the basics"and "pass and move" - like it's the easiest thing in the world.  If it were, you'd think that most managers would have worked that out by now

 

You play if you are allowed to or if you are better than your opponent - £10k a week players are unlikely to be better than £50k a week players

 

Personally, that we are competitive at all on the budget we have is an acheivement (please don't quote the £40m figure again - we have lost players that cost £80m and are working with a circa £60m squad against £120-£350m squads. In any case it's be clearly proven that performance correlates to wages not to fees)

 

10k a week players eh?

 

How much is Benteke, Gabby, Weimann, Vlaar and Guzan earning?

 

At the other end of the spectrum how much has Hughes had to spend at Stoke for example while at the same time changing their style of play? Would you say that the players at Palace are earning more than our players Bannan included? Would you say the players at Hull are earning more than those at Fulham or indeed our players?

 

The difference is in the way they are being organised and coached and that comes down to the manager!

 

 

Bacuna, Tonev, Westwood, Lowton, Luna, Clark and Baker

 

If you don't want to understand that wages = performance that's up to you

 

No I understand fine that wages doesn't necessarily equate to performance and I've given you examples of that which you have chosen to ignore, again.

 

 

It's simple enough to find an odd example that bucks the trend but generally in football, like in life better performers get paid better

 

http://www.squawka.com/news/2013/07/09/value-index-part-1/2013070912877

 

http://www.econ.tcu.edu/harvey/blog/Salary_Performance_Causality.pdf

 

http://dr.library.brocku.ca/xmlui/bitstream/handle/10464/3997/Brock_Fullard_Jonathan_2012.pdf?sequence=1

 

Boom!

 

Didn't refer to your examples as you have yet again failed to answer my question so I will ask it again.

 

Are the players of Palace, Stoke, Hull, WBA, on significantly more wages than our players and I'll spell it out for you. The reason why I ask is that they are currently playing better football.

 

 

You should read the links, you'd probably learn something

 

Of the clubs you mention I would think Palace probably are paying similar to us - the other teams probably more

 

 

So you think Stoke, Hull and West Brom are paying significantly more in wages in comparison to us.

 

Ha, ha. We'll have to disagree then.

 

 

You are saying significantly more, I just said more

 

But take a look at the links I posted and you will see that in 11/12 we were paying slightly more than Stoke Fulham and WBA and since then we have slashed the wages bill

 

You will note in previous posts that I did specify 'significantly.' It would have to be significantly more to prove your point which was better wages equates to better performance.

 

Unfortunately unless you are one of the top four and have bucket loads to spend you can still compete with a lower budget if you have the right manager at the helm and no I don't mean competing within the top four but actually producing football and results that will keep the fans happy until we get to the end of yet another five year plan. 

 

So far Lambert's performance has been on a par with the worst manager this club has seen and there is no more terrible indictment than that. 

[VillaCas]

 

 

This shows how bad we were under McL. 

 

This season I would guess we are top half, maybe top quartile

 

Let's see what happens when we (hopefully) start spending some money again

[TRO]

I am very reluctant to see him gone until I am sure about how many players he has wanted to sign and been denied.

I don' t see this problem as just one man, albeit, I do understand the manager has to rake the responsibility for it all.

I would like the hear a true reflection of it all.

There are many things to say....if he does go, the next incumbent will want another load of dosh...to promise better things.

If he stays, some things have to change and some honest answers need to come out of villa park, about plans, about academy, about home record, about constant flirt with relegation, about low grade football on show.

Edited December 29, 2013 by TRO

[StanBalaban]

 

 

So really can't use specifics to answer the question which isn't surprising since there aren't any of Lambert's signings which are out performing those that were already here. 

 

 

As usual and as always you are making up your own questions - I have not argued that any one of Lamberts team is better or worse than any one of McL's. What I am arguing and what is indisputable is that collectively they earnt more points and a better league position than McL's team whilst costing half as much and earning a quarter as much.....so to be specific - better all round

 

This is exactly the point in my opinion.  The cost of a player in my opinion is not just how much they cost to buy, but how much is costs to keep them here (i.e. wages) and what the potential return is upon selling.

 

Under McLeish the players were expensively assembled, expensive to run and were worth sweet FA in resale.  Under Lambert everyone rolls out this "spent £40m" to assemble his team, but this squad is costing a lot less on a weekly basis than the club has known in recent years.  We're sufficient in numbers too, albeit noticeably lacking in quality.  We have a few decent earners, but they are the minority.  As VillaCas has pointed out, this team has "achieved" as much as McLeish's more expensive team.  In fact we've achieved as much as any manger under Randy as we've won **** all under his stewardship anyway, but I digress...

 

Lambert now needs to be backed to add quality to his squad and that's up to Lerner.  If he can add quality in MF and the final third we'll see better football.  The difference is that out of the £40m spent (if we are going with that), we'd be able to recoup most, if not all or more, of that if we sold some of the players.  We're also unlikely to be lumbered with anyone being a drain on the club as their fee and wages shouldn't leave us with too many issues in terms of finding suitors.

 

We've addressed the first part of the brief I reckon - a squad in terms of numbers that's able to replicate the previous squad on a quarter of the cost.  Hopefully step 2 is to add 2 or 3 quality players to that squad allowing us to challenge in the top half - still keeping costs below the Eck, Houllier and MON regimes.

 

We're going through a shit time right now, and PL is not coming up with too many answers, but I believe he'll get it right - even more so when he gets to work with more experienced, quality players.  

Edited December 29, 2013 by StanBalaban

[AstonMartin82]

So far Lambert's performance has been on a par with the worst manager this club has seen and there is no more terrible indictment than that. 

 

I can't believe for a second that anyone who is of sound mind and is not speaking out of pure emotion would believe this for a second.

 

Everyone losses from time to time and it is how you cope with losing that makes you who you are, not avoiding losing. Using your logic you must think every manager in Aston Villa's history has been the worst manager in the world at some point.

 

Right now it is time to support the team, not to unstablise it with this tedious rhetoric.

[jacketspuds]

 

 

This shows how bad we were under McL. 

 

This season I would guess we are top half, maybe top quartile

 

Let's see what happens when we (hopefully) start spending some money again

 

Interesting that Norwich are at number 2 in the league table. We should look to appoint whoever was there manager at the time as I remember they played decent football in that season.

[Morpheus]

 

 

 

 Seems to be a one man crusade here Cas.If you are happy with PLs team fine, i think we are shit atm, and i blame PL, i thought we was shit under McL, and i blamed MON and McL.I'm at the stage now that i am happy to finish half way in The Prem, i don't think PL is up to that, or that McL was.

 

 You can dress it up as much as you like, we arae an awful football team atm, and i just want to see some football after having none for 3/4 years.

 

Just trying to balance out the argument, I didnt lobby for PL to come here but now he is I want to see him given time and see what can be achieved with decent/average resources. I see nothing to be gained by changing manager

 

No I'm not happy with PLs side, I also think we're a bit shit but I blame Lerner

 

Finishing halfway in the prem would be an achievment given the resources deployed so far

 

http://www.squawka.com/news/2013/07/09/value-index-part-1/2013070912877

 

You either think this is true or you don't - if you don't then I can understand why you would imagine that all of a sudden you can start knockingthe ball around like Barcelona

 

Ha, ha. You go from one extreme to the other mate to try and prove a point.

 

No-one expects the same performance level as Barca but they do expect to see better than the drivel Lambert has got the team playing for three quarters of last season and the majority of this season. 

 

 

Wages = Performance. It's not rocket science

 

We underachieved under McL (the analysis I linked to estimates by 9 points), we are probably overacheiving slightly under Lambert

 

We underachieved with Mcleish because he was a shite manager.

 

If you think one relegation battle with all the worst stats possible and on the way to repeating that again backed by even worse stats such as winning 15 in 55 and then stating Lambert has overachieved then good luck and as I have already proven you don't have to have a big budget to play better football than we currently are. 

[smetrov]

 I think Lambert is now playing a very dangerous game. Publically at least he is setting the bar very low. Both on the pitch after the game and in interviews he genuinely seemed really pleased that we had just achieved a draw at home against a Swansea side in poor form and one point above us. A draw that was achieved with some of the most negative football I have seen since we played Utd at home under McLeish.

He has stated that we are halfway there - halfway to 40 points. He has stated we are struggling because we are missing big players and included in that list Joe Bennett. Missing Vlaar, Benteke, Bennett and Okore as an excuse for the utter tripe we have been serving up for months is an insult to peoples intelligence. We have been serving up tripe since way before Vlaar and Bentke were injured. I'd accept we secured a few more points but the performances have been very poor for most of the season. Injuries are also part and parcel of the game. It should also be remembered that three of the so called big players missing are defenders and for me it is offensively where we simply cannot retain possession where were are really struggling.

Things need to improve and improve quickly starting at Sunderland on Wednesday. I don't want to see Lambert sacked but he is drinking in last chance saloon for me now. I want him to prove that I was right to want him to replace both Houllier and McLeish and to start repaying the faith thousands of us fans have shown in him. He has had way more grace and favor given the crap served up than any Villa manager I can remember and he needs to embrace what little is left and get his team playing in a more positive manner. It would also help if he stopped setting the bar so low and demanded more of his team and from the owner.

Lerner will need to play his part and back his manager and with that backing Lambert needs to bring in two or three players, whether permanent or loans, of proven quality and a bit of nous at this level. No more young, hungry and hopefully one day good enough bollocks. It simply isn't working.

 

To those that want him out now though I can't argue with that. He is on borrowed time with me and it is little more than blind faith and a fear of who the owner would choose to follow him that hasn't got me screaming for his head.

 

Thats exactly where I am . Despite all the evidence suggesting otherwise - I'm just hoping Lambert comes good

[VillaCas]

 

You will note in previous posts that I did specify 'significantly.' It would have to be significantly more to prove your point which was better wages equates to better performance.

 

Unfortunately unless you are one of the top four and have bucket loads to spend you can still compete with a lower budget if you have the right manager at the helm and no I don't mean competing within the top four but actually producing football and results that will keep the fans happy until we get to the end of yet another five year plan. 

 

So far Lambert's performance has been on a par with the worst manager this club has seen and there is no more terrible indictment than that. 

 

 

Only in your (as always fair-minded) opinion. More is more - a £15k a week player should be better than a £10k a week player, a £20k a week player should be better than both of them. Huddlestone is a £60k a week player, for example, that would make a world of difference to our midfield but he is out of our price range

 

If you think Lambert is no better than McL you're 100% wrong but that's up to you

 

Wages = Performance

 

[StanBalaban]

 

 

 

 

 Seems to be a one man crusade here Cas.If you are happy with PLs team fine, i think we are shit atm, and i blame PL, i thought we was shit under McL, and i blamed MON and McL.I'm at the stage now that i am happy to finish half way in The Prem, i don't think PL is up to that, or that McL was.

 

 You can dress it up as much as you like, we arae an awful football team atm, and i just want to see some football after having none for 3/4 years.

 

Just trying to balance out the argument, I didnt lobby for PL to come here but now he is I want to see him given time and see what can be achieved with decent/average resources. I see nothing to be gained by changing manager

 

No I'm not happy with PLs side, I also think we're a bit shit but I blame Lerner

 

Finishing halfway in the prem would be an achievment given the resources deployed so far

 

http://www.squawka.com/news/2013/07/09/value-index-part-1/2013070912877

 

You either think this is true or you don't - if you don't then I can understand why you would imagine that all of a sudden you can start knockingthe ball around like Barcelona

 

Ha, ha. You go from one extreme to the other mate to try and prove a point.

 

No-one expects the same performance level as Barca but they do expect to see better than the drivel Lambert has got the team playing for three quarters of last season and the majority of this season. 

 

 

Wages = Performance. It's not rocket science

 

We underachieved under McL (the analysis I linked to estimates by 9 points), we are probably overacheiving slightly under Lambert

 

We underachieved with Mcleish because he was a shite manager.

 

If you think one relegation battle with all the worst stats possible and on the way to repeating that again backed by even worse stats such as winning 15 in 55 and then stating Lambert has overachieved then good luck and as I have already proven you don't have to have a big budget to play better football than we currently are. 

 

I believe, and it's just my opinion, that what we saw under McLeish was his end game.

 

With Lambert we have a squad on peanuts replicating McLeish's best, whilst showing Lambert at his poorest.  Now we have numbers and a low wage bill, whilst having players with resale value.

 

If Lerner allows Lambert to add quality in Jan or the summer we'll see stage 2 of the redevelopment of Aston Villa, in my opinion.  

[lp_villa830]

Cas I think is failing to understsnd peoples frustrations. Most at the start of the season would probably realistically expect us to finish about where ourcurrent pposition is but not playing Eck syle football. If he can get the team knocking the ball around again like the end of last season which shouldn't be that hard considering he has been able to add to the team whilst giving out wage increases to players.

[Morpheus]

 

 

This shows how bad we were under McL. 

 

This season I would guess we are top half, maybe top quartile

 

Let's see what happens when we (hopefully) start spending some money again

Lambert has already spent 42m and I will be very interested to see you pull a comparison stat when our next set of fixtures are over.

[jacketspuds]

Lambert is better than McLeish as he doesn't have the squad that McLeish had. Most of those have had to be replaced.

 

However, Lambert is in no way performing to the level I expect. Sadly he probably is performing to his own, and more importantly, Randy Lerner's expectations.

[Villarocker]

I'll say this much, the crowds appeared to be on the up this season, following our decent start. But, if this dire football continues for the rest of the season, regardless of where we finish, the attendances are going to really suffer next season. People are just not going to keep justifying such large amounts of money to sit in a cold seat watching the most boring football their team has ever produced.