Could any manager do better.

[VillaCas]

 

 

Villacas

I agree with you about Berbatov....all the more gauling that we play a game of freedom of the park with him

He is a technician, when he can be bothered, he usually gets interested when players give him space and keep out of his face.

I was at Fulham and it was basic....even I could see it so I'm sure the manager could.

I know these players are hard to close down.....I seen our own David Evans (peripheral young player) man mark the great Johann Cryuff out of the game, when playing Ajax.

It can be done..

 

TRO - not looking for an argument as I think we are mostly on the same page

 

You might be thinking of a different game but I was there in '78 when Cruyff playing for Barcelona torn us to ribbons before going off injured at 0-2 , MacNaught and Deehan got very late goals to unexpectedly and undeservedly pull us level. Little put us one up in the second leg but we lost 2-1

 

 different game

 

 

With all due respect I very much doubt it as Cruyff left Ajax in 1973 when David Evans would have been 14

 

However, David Evans did play in the 1978 game aged 19 when Cruyff ripped him a new one (as shown in the video)

 

Villa's first ever game against Ajax was 2008

[TRO]

you are obviously doing your research and fair play, but i remember from memory the most important point that a rookie gave Cryuff an uneasy time, by sticking close to him.I remember the comments in the pub after the game saying the same....I can't remember the score.... but I'm talking about the game in general and relating to one of the best players in the world at that time. If there was one or two  incidents that Cryuff managed to live up to his reputation it was as much as he did. 

 

but getting back to the point, I was trying to make.....its that with the right effort applied and a will to win you don't have to be a world beater yourself to inhibit one.

 

PS There was definately a game where he didn't rip us to ribbons, unless I'm going mad in my old age.

Edited December 23, 2013 by TRO

[TRO]

 

 

 

Villacas

I agree with you about Berbatov....all the more gauling that we play a game of freedom of the park with him

He is a technician, when he can be bothered, he usually gets interested when players give him space and keep out of his face.

I was at Fulham and it was basic....even I could see it so I'm sure the manager could.

I know these players are hard to close down.....I seen our own David Evans (peripheral young player) man mark the great Johann Cryuff out of the game, when playing Ajax.

It can be done..

 

TRO - not looking for an argument as I think we are mostly on the same page

 

You might be thinking of a different game but I was there in '78 when Cruyff playing for Barcelona torn us to ribbons before going off injured at 0-2 , MacNaught and Deehan got very late goals to unexpectedly and undeservedly pull us level. Little put us one up in the second leg but we lost 2-1

 

 different game

 

 

With all due respect I very much doubt it as Cruyff left Ajax in 1973 when David Evans would have been 14

 

However, David Evans did play in the 1978 game aged 19 when Cruyff ripped him a new one (as shown in the video)

 

Villa's first ever game against Ajax was 2008

 

Thanks for the correction as I just went off memory, and thats getting tougher these days,but some of the detail was incidental to the point i was trying to illustrate.

[mikeyp102]

Secondly, I think some of the blame has to be pointed at the players. Only Delph, Vlaar, Clark and to a lesser extent KEA seemed to have kicked on and improved from last season whereas Benteke, Wiemann, Lowton, Westwood, Sylla etc all seem to have gone backwards. Is this totally the managers fault ? Our much feared front 3 scored 35 league goals last season but with nearly half the season gone this year have 6 between them. Is this all Lamberts fault too ? Gabby seems to avoid criticism because he's "one of us" but he's scored 1 goal all season and on current run rate will score 3 goals all season. That's totally unacceptable for a player on his wages and his experience. Is it any wonder we're struggling ?

Isn't it down to the manager to get players performing well? Look at the great managers, Alex ferguson, for example. He manage to get players to perform better than they actually were to get the points for there team (last seasons title victory was remarkable considering the midfield they had, which is being picked apart this yr.) Even a fairly limited (but our most successful for sometime) manager in MON was able to get the best from his players. We were all led to believe that Lambert was a great motivator, but recent performances haven't shown that. When so many players are out of form you do have to question what goes on at training.

[icouldtelltheworld]

I think we're dreaming if we start imagining there are better managers for this job, who would stick to the very tight budget in place and keep us competitive in the PL. Who is currently out of managerial work that we would realistically want here? I also think it'd be a mistake to appoint a trendy foreign name; not that I can see any rushing to take up the job here. With this squad and the rules in place, Lambert is probably about the best we can hope for and he has my support even though things are frustrating at the moment.

With regards to the change in playing style that we have seen this year, here is my little conspiracy:

Lambert obviously held himself in fairly high esteem after what he had achieved with Norwich in getting them to the PL and then securing a very respectable finish. I believe he came to Villa because he felt he could go on to achieve more here than at Norwich and I reckon that is still what he thinks. I also believe that Lambert expected last season to run a lot more smoothly than it did and the rough patches we went through were probably very sobering for him. Expectations at Villa are higher than at Norwich, which I'm sure everyone who knows anything about football would agree with.

 

From the experience of last season, I believe that Lambert realised that there is a ceiling to how well an all out, plucky attacking team can do in this league. If we kept playing how we did last season, whilst being very exciting to watch at times, we would probably never finish higher than Norwich managed in Lambert's PL season there.

 

We were crying out for the defense to be sorted out and from what I can see the manager has made serious attempts to do so. We have been very unfortunate to lose Okore; but even without him we have generally looked more solid this year than we did last. I believe we have also employed a new defensive coach ?

Lambert has never played defense-minded football; until this season Lambert's mantra was all-out attack. One of the things that I both love and hate about our manager is his apparent stubborn persona, however I do think that he is genuinely trying to mature tactically and we are experiencing some growing pains. We are building a more solid foundation at the back of the team which is vital work that I did not think Lambert would bother to address. Things will click for us and we will start scoring goals again, once the injury situation is a bit healthier and a few of our under-performers find form. Further to this, a few of the new signings should start to make more of an impact in the new year. This was always a long term project and whilst I think we will be safe this year we will most likely be unspectacular about it, next year we will have a full squad that have been together a while and we can look to add some quality. I think a lot of people on here got carried away with our excellent finish last year - players like Gabby were always bound to lose form eventually and Benteke wasn't going to keep up a better than 1 in 2 goalscoring record forever. That said, I wouldn't be surprised to see us click and finish very strongly again this year. If you look at how many new players we are trying to integrate and the shortcomings of the team as a whole we really aren't in that different a situation to last year.

 

For me, it is vital that we allow Lambert the time to do what he is doing. It will be difficult and frustrating at times along the way but here is a manager who looks like he is willing to put in the effort to completely overhaul this football club and build a more sustainable basis for us to become competitive again. It's no secret our team is weak in places by PL standards and I believe almost any other manager would get us relegated. This is Lambert's team and he gets at least til the end of next season for me.

[TRO]

 

 I think a lot of people on here got carried away with our excellent finish last year - players like Gabby were always bound to lose form eventually 

 I think most of us seen it as testimony to progression and that since the Liverpool game we have embarked on a road to regression...for reasons that belong to opinion.

 

I also don't see why Gabby is bound to lose form like it is some sort of acceptable excuse for a player who is on a considerably high salary and he has scored 1 goal....If you was his paymaster, I think you would have a more discerning view on it... albeit  I happen to think Gabby is one of our best players, which can open a further debate as to what the hell are the others doing then.

 

I do happen to think right now.....a bucket load of support like we have ever mustered is the only reasonable chance we have of turning this around, because what has gotten us in to this crap ain't t likely to get us out any time soon.

[jayEm]

These are Lambert's players, say what you like about their ability on the pitch but you can tell they want to play for him. Sacking Lambert would just put us in more trouble, in my opinion anyway. Who can tell?

[caw2510]

i think another manager could get them playing a better style of football.

 

arsene wenger has been signing young players for ages and look how he had arsenal playing.

even martinez at wigan, or di matteo at the albion both played a better style of football with average teams

[GENTLEMAN]

I think we're dreaming if we start imagining there are better managers for this job, who would stick to the very tight budget in place and keep us competitive in the PL. Who is currently out of managerial work that we would realistically want here? I also think it'd be a mistake to appoint a trendy foreign name; not that I can see any rushing to take up the job here. With this squad and the rules in place, Lambert is probably about the best we can hope for and he has my support even though things are frustrating at the moment.

With regards to the change in playing style that we have seen this year, here is my little conspiracy:

Lambert obviously held himself in fairly high esteem after what he had achieved with Norwich in getting them to the PL and then securing a very respectable finish. I believe he came to Villa because he felt he could go on to achieve more here than at Norwich and I reckon that is still what he thinks. I also believe that Lambert expected last season to run a lot more smoothly than it did and the rough patches we went through were probably very sobering for him. Expectations at Villa are higher than at Norwich, which I'm sure everyone who knows anything about football would agree with.

 

From the experience of last season, I believe that Lambert realised that there is a ceiling to how well an all out, plucky attacking team can do in this league. If we kept playing how we did last season, whilst being very exciting to watch at times, we would probably never finish higher than Norwich managed in Lambert's PL season there.

 

We were crying out for the defense to be sorted out and from what I can see the manager has made serious attempts to do so. We have been very unfortunate to lose Okore; but even without him we have generally looked more solid this year than we did last. I believe we have also employed a new defensive coach ?

Lambert has never played defense-minded football; until this season Lambert's mantra was all-out attack. One of the things that I both love and hate about our manager is his apparent stubborn persona, however I do think that he is genuinely trying to mature tactically and we are experiencing some growing pains. We are building a more solid foundation at the back of the team which is vital work that I did not think Lambert would bother to address. Things will click for us and we will start scoring goals again, once the injury situation is a bit healthier and a few of our under-performers find form. Further to this, a few of the new signings should start to make more of an impact in the new year. This was always a long term project and whilst I think we will be safe this year we will most likely be unspectacular about it, next year we will have a full squad that have been together a while and we can look to add some quality. I think a lot of people on here got carried away with our excellent finish last year - players like Gabby were always bound to lose form eventually and Benteke wasn't going to keep up a better than 1 in 2 goalscoring record forever. That said, I wouldn't be surprised to see us click and finish very strongly again this year. If you look at how many new players we are trying to integrate and the shortcomings of the team as a whole we really aren't in that different a situation to last year.

 

For me, it is vital that we allow Lambert the time to do what he is doing. It will be difficult and frustrating at times along the way but here is a manager who looks like he is willing to put in the effort to completely overhaul this football club and build a more sustainable basis for us to become competitive again. It's no secret our team is weak in places by PL standards and I believe almost any other manager would get us relegated. This is Lambert's team and he gets at least til the end of next season for me.

Excellent post.

[VillaIRE]

I was heartened to read an article title just now: Lambert demands more from Villa over Christmas (http://www.fourfourtwo.com/news/lambert-demands-more-villa?)

 

... and then I almost choked on my coffee:

 

 

 

Paul Lambert has called for his Aston Villa side to replicate their performance against Stoke City on Saturday over the busy festive period.
...

"But I feel if we do that (perform like they did with Stoke) more times than not, we will win games"

 

I must have been watching a different game on Saturday.  If we carry on performing like that, we're surely in for it.

[GENTLEMAN]

I think it is a case of having the patience of a saint during this difficult period and looking forward to the future. It may not be looking likely now, but I do believe that better days lie ahead under PL and we can replicate what Everton are doing now. We need to stick together.

[GENTLEMAN]

I was heartened to read an article title just now: Lambert demands more from Villa over Christmas (http://www.fourfourtwo.com/news/lambert-demands-more-villa?)

 

... and then I almost choked on my coffee:

 

 

 

Paul Lambert has called for his Aston Villa side to replicate their performance against Stoke City on Saturday over the busy festive period.

...

"But I feel if we do that (perform like they did with Stoke) more times than not, we will win games"

 

I must have been watching a different game on Saturday.  If we carry on performing like that, we're surely in for it.

I thought we did better against Stoke considering the prior two matches. It was not our best game but we did not deserve to lose it.

[Big_John_10]

I think all it would take is for the club to make clear what the future plan was and fans would be a lot more patient.

If we knew that surviving on the cheap now would lead to a more ambitious approach this summer and in the future I think more would just sit back and accept the dross that's been served up so far.

I think the unknown and the idea that its going to be this for the foreseeable future is part of the reason some fans are losing patience in the approach.

[smetrov]

I think we're dreaming if we start imagining there are better managers for this job, who would stick to the very tight budget in place and keep us competitive in the PL. Who is currently out of managerial work that we would realistically want here? I also think it'd be a mistake to appoint a trendy foreign name; not that I can see any rushing to take up the job here. With this squad and the rules in place, Lambert is probably about the best we can hope for and he has my support even though things are frustrating at the moment.

With regards to the change in playing style that we have seen this year, here is my little conspiracy:

Lambert obviously held himself in fairly high esteem after what he had achieved with Norwich in getting them to the PL and then securing a very respectable finish. I believe he came to Villa because he felt he could go on to achieve more here than at Norwich and I reckon that is still what he thinks. I also believe that Lambert expected last season to run a lot more smoothly than it did and the rough patches we went through were probably very sobering for him. Expectations at Villa are higher than at Norwich, which I'm sure everyone who knows anything about football would agree with.

 

From the experience of last season, I believe that Lambert realised that there is a ceiling to how well an all out, plucky attacking team can do in this league. If we kept playing how we did last season, whilst being very exciting to watch at times, we would probably never finish higher than Norwich managed in Lambert's PL season there.

 

We were crying out for the defense to be sorted out and from what I can see the manager has made serious attempts to do so. We have been very unfortunate to lose Okore; but even without him we have generally looked more solid this year than we did last. I believe we have also employed a new defensive coach ?

Lambert has never played defense-minded football; until this season Lambert's mantra was all-out attack. One of the things that I both love and hate about our manager is his apparent stubborn persona, however I do think that he is genuinely trying to mature tactically and we are experiencing some growing pains. We are building a more solid foundation at the back of the team which is vital work that I did not think Lambert would bother to address. Things will click for us and we will start scoring goals again, once the injury situation is a bit healthier and a few of our under-performers find form. Further to this, a few of the new signings should start to make more of an impact in the new year. This was always a long term project and whilst I think we will be safe this year we will most likely be unspectacular about it, next year we will have a full squad that have been together a while and we can look to add some quality. I think a lot of people on here got carried away with our excellent finish last year - players like Gabby were always bound to lose form eventually and Benteke wasn't going to keep up a better than 1 in 2 goalscoring record forever. That said, I wouldn't be surprised to see us click and finish very strongly again this year. If you look at how many new players we are trying to integrate and the shortcomings of the team as a whole we really aren't in that different a situation to last year.

 

For me, it is vital that we allow Lambert the time to do what he is doing. It will be difficult and frustrating at times along the way but here is a manager who looks like he is willing to put in the effort to completely overhaul this football club and build a more sustainable basis for us to become competitive again. It's no secret our team is weak in places by PL standards and I believe almost any other manager would get us relegated. This is Lambert's team and he gets at least til the end of next season for me.

 

Good post and I agree with what you say. But given we are now one point better off than this time last season - How bad do things have to get before we loose faith in Lambert - Lets say we lost our next 2 home games (Palace + Swansea) one of them quite heavily...........could we stand by Lambert then ? - Particularly as he has been caught out, by the same injury, to the same player, at the same time ? - and for the second season running choose to go with only one senior CB ?

I think all it would take is for the club to make clear what the future plan was and fans would be a lot more patient.

If we knew that surviving on the cheap now would lead to a more ambitious approach this summer and in the future I think more would just sit back and accept the dross that's been served up so far.

I think the unknown and the idea that its going to be this for the foreseeable future is part of the reason some fans are losing patience in the approach.

 

pretty much this....

[TRO]

I think all it would take is for the club to make clear what the future plan was and fans would be a lot more patient.

If we knew that surviving on the cheap now would lead to a more ambitious approach this summer and in the future I think more would just sit back and accept the dross that's been served up so far.

I think the unknown and the idea that its going to be this for the foreseeable future is part of the reason some fans are losing patience in the approach.

 

absolutely and utterly bloody spot on.

 

The silence from B6 is deafening

[GENTLEMAN]

I think all it would take is for the club to make clear what the future plan was and fans would be a lot more patient.

If we knew that surviving on the cheap now would lead to a more ambitious approach this summer and in the future I think more would just sit back and accept the dross that's been served up so far.

I think the unknown and the idea that its going to be this for the foreseeable future is part of the reason some fans are losing patience in the approach

 

The communication from the board is very bad; I guess they probably do not want to put too much pressure on Lambert by revealing a detailed plan or they just do not care about telling the fans their ambitions, you decide. It would be nice to hear from Randy Lerner now and then.

 

I think people are writing off our players too early. What is to say that they will not individually improve in the future? There is no reason at all. I definitely think signing younger players gives us the added benefit of future development. I think the experience of playing consistently at the top level will ameliorate our team for success in the future. We are still laying the foundations for the future at the moment, I believe it will get easier in time and the improvements will be telling. We need to make smart purchases in the transfer market if Lambert is given bigger funding, we need instant quality added to the team whatever their age.

 

Fans are mainly losing patience because we are not winning games, and that is totally natural at any club. We are going through a bad spell, it happens to every club during the season.

Edited December 23, 2013 by GENTLEMAN

[DelboyVilla]

Definitely better managers out than Lambert, but none of them would join the Lerner train because the bridge is out!!

[icouldtelltheworld]

 

I think we're dreaming if we start imagining there are better managers for this job, who would stick to the very tight budget in place and keep us competitive in the PL. Who is currently out of managerial work that we would realistically want here? I also think it'd be a mistake to appoint a trendy foreign name; not that I can see any rushing to take up the job here. With this squad and the rules in place, Lambert is probably about the best we can hope for and he has my support even though things are frustrating at the moment.

With regards to the change in playing style that we have seen this year, here is my little conspiracy:

Lambert obviously held himself in fairly high esteem after what he had achieved with Norwich in getting them to the PL and then securing a very respectable finish. I believe he came to Villa because he felt he could go on to achieve more here than at Norwich and I reckon that is still what he thinks. I also believe that Lambert expected last season to run a lot more smoothly than it did and the rough patches we went through were probably very sobering for him. Expectations at Villa are higher than at Norwich, which I'm sure everyone who knows anything about football would agree with.

 

From the experience of last season, I believe that Lambert realised that there is a ceiling to how well an all out, plucky attacking team can do in this league. If we kept playing how we did last season, whilst being very exciting to watch at times, we would probably never finish higher than Norwich managed in Lambert's PL season there.

 

We were crying out for the defense to be sorted out and from what I can see the manager has made serious attempts to do so. We have been very unfortunate to lose Okore; but even without him we have generally looked more solid this year than we did last. I believe we have also employed a new defensive coach ?

Lambert has never played defense-minded football; until this season Lambert's mantra was all-out attack. One of the things that I both love and hate about our manager is his apparent stubborn persona, however I do think that he is genuinely trying to mature tactically and we are experiencing some growing pains. We are building a more solid foundation at the back of the team which is vital work that I did not think Lambert would bother to address. Things will click for us and we will start scoring goals again, once the injury situation is a bit healthier and a few of our under-performers find form. Further to this, a few of the new signings should start to make more of an impact in the new year. This was always a long term project and whilst I think we will be safe this year we will most likely be unspectacular about it, next year we will have a full squad that have been together a while and we can look to add some quality. I think a lot of people on here got carried away with our excellent finish last year - players like Gabby were always bound to lose form eventually and Benteke wasn't going to keep up a better than 1 in 2 goalscoring record forever. That said, I wouldn't be surprised to see us click and finish very strongly again this year. If you look at how many new players we are trying to integrate and the shortcomings of the team as a whole we really aren't in that different a situation to last year.

 

For me, it is vital that we allow Lambert the time to do what he is doing. It will be difficult and frustrating at times along the way but here is a manager who looks like he is willing to put in the effort to completely overhaul this football club and build a more sustainable basis for us to become competitive again. It's no secret our team is weak in places by PL standards and I believe almost any other manager would get us relegated. This is Lambert's team and he gets at least til the end of next season for me.

 

Good post and I agree with what you say. But given we are now one point better off than this time last season - How bad do things have to get before we loose faith in Lambert - Lets say we lost our next 2 home games (Palace + Swansea) one of them quite heavily...........could we stand by Lambert then ? - Particularly as he has been caught out, by the same injury, to the same player, at the same time ? - and for the second season running choose to go with only one senior CB ?

 

Yes, of course we need to stand by him. It would have made more sense to sack Lambert over our bad Christmas last year rather than this one IMO. We are playing badly at the moment but we don't look likely to start losing games 4-0 and 8-0. I don't see what sacking Lambert could achieve when any manager who comes in is going to have to deal with Lambert's squad (that Lambert himself isn't completely sure of yet)  and the budget in place. Only a top class manager could come in and realistically do a better job and if we sack Lambert there won't be any of them sniffing around the chance to replace him.

You could argue that he chose to go with only one senior CB this season, but I think its harsh when Okore was clearly signed to go straight into the first team. Whilst we haven't seen much of him I'm pretty sure we can all agree that at the least he is a step up from Baker and Herd. I rate Clark above Baker and it would seem that Lambert does too. Vlaar and Okore as our first choice pairing with Clark for competition/back up and Baker and Herd as our emergency cover actually on paper looks quite strong to me. If Vlaar had got injured recently and Clark had been coming in to fill in alongside Okore I think we'd be fine without him.

[vandaq]

this thread will go down in flames if we lose against palace. 

[suttonpaul]

Of course some other manager would do better but other than Wenger who is obvious I couldn't tell you 100% sure who. I quite like what Lambert has done by enlarge and we should just see it out, I doubt we will go down and those high earners are still leaving making the situation better for us year on year.