VillaForever1970 Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 (edited) Did you read the post aimed at me? Blandy clearly saw an opportunity to try and point score and attempt to make me look foolish. But instead of taking the time to think about the two clearly different situations mentioned he jumped in two footed. I'm responding in the manner in which the original post was aimed at me. Yes, i also read you start the conversation in another thread getting yourself ready for point scoring by comparing Lambert possibly picking a weakened team and comparing it somehow to O'Neill, for no particular reason really... Hmm pot kettle. Edited January 7, 2013 by VillaForever1970 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheltenham_villa Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 yep, with something like 11 games to go. wasnt it that we were minutes away from an 11 point lead, then conceded two late goals to stoke to draw. I think Arsenal had a game in hand maybe as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Yes, i also read you start the conversation in another thread getting yourself ready for point scoring by comparing Lambert possibly picking a weakened team and comparing it somehow to O'Neill, for no particular reason really... Hmm pot kettle. The particular reason was to see if the attitudes were different to the two managers but thanks for telling me what was going in my mind. And i'm not moaning at blandy, if he wants to post like that he can, i know i do on occassions but i think then i can respond how i did. I didn't insult him. I've no problem with his post to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Blandy clearly saw an opportunity to try and point score and attempt to make me look foolish. But instead of taking the time to think about the two clearly different situations mentioned he jumped in two footed. Without wanting to draw this out longer than it need run, I'd like to suggest that "point scoring" and "two footed" are two attributes I've never previously seen ascribed to Mr B, in many years. It takes a lot to irritate him. And god knows many people, including me, have tried to test that. Have you considered the possibility that you may have misread the situation? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Without wanting to draw this out longer than it need run, I'd like to suggest that "point scoring" and "two footed" are two attributes I've never previously seen ascribed to Mr B, in many years. It takes a lot to irritate him. And god knows many people, including me, have tried to test that. Have you considered the possibility that you may have misread the situation? TBH i was very surpirsed to read the response. It did seem out of character. But if you read it again, i can't see any other way of taking it than an attempt to score points and try to make me look foolish. I'd like to again say i've got no real problem with it, i'm not complaining about it and i'm not having a go at blandy, i was just defending my response when it was questioned by someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 The only thing i'm interested in arguing about is aston villa. I've edited my response, which while i don't think was insulting in anyway to Blandy didn't add anything to the debate on Randy Lerner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Best draw a line and move on, perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted January 7, 2013 Moderator Share Posted January 7, 2013 But if you read it again, i can't see any other way of taking it than an attempt to score points and try to make me look foolish. I can't see why anyone would try to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 I'll use an analogy - You buy a house that needs "modernisation". You buy it with the intention of doing it up to then increase the value beyond what you've spent on the house and the improvements. Say it costs you £200k and by spending another £80k you can make it worth £400k. You hire an interior designer to spend the budget you have in mind believing that when's he's finished you'll have a valuable asset. You know nothing about interior design and let the designer spend the budget however he sees fit and take his word that what he proposes to buy will satisfy your ambition. After 3 years the work still isn't complete and everyone who comes to view the house can see that ridiculous money has been wasted on expensive taps in the spare bathroom, outdated chintzy curtains and an un-necessary loft conversion. A different interior designer, or same one being monitored by an expert, would have spent the same money (or less) achieving your ambition to invest into the property in order to make it more valuable. All you've been left with is a load of expensive furniture that you can't even sell on eBay, a nursery, and garden that wins "best lawn" every year. That analogy actually turned out better than I expected... So based on this is it not possible to feel a touch if sympathy for Lerner? I'm not sure your analogy stands up completely. Though as far as Randy was concerned he HAD surrounded himself with football men, or at the very least a football man. In O'Neill. Speculate to accumulate they did. Say what you like about Lerner, I'm really not a fan of his business acumen. I'd go as far as to say its embarrassing. But he had a **** good go, WE had a **** good go. You can't take that away from him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted January 8, 2013 Moderator Share Posted January 8, 2013 I feel a lot of sympathy for Lerner. I see him as the good-natured homeowner who hired the wrong guy to do the work. O'Neill didn't lack talent, just his methods were outdated. To go back to the abstract analogy, O'Neill put some great stuff in the house - a nice flat screen TV, some water features, but they all had to be sold off when it became apparent that the foundations were knackered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Not a huge amount of blame attached to Lerner for me, he had too much faith was his problem. He invested shit loads of money and got every player he was asked to get, who was he to question this man who has several league titles under his belt? Imagine the rage he'd have felt if O'Neill had turned against him in the Summer of 2008 with a simple line in a press conference like "We need to spend inside the Chairman's budget." Fans would have gone mad! We were the most exciting team in the league and every team knew we could beat them if we were at the top of our game. Also imagine the wrath if he'd have decided O'Neill's signings weren't giving us enough value and got rid of him?! Fans would have turned on him again. He's been so unlucky I think. O'Neill did well, but a better manager would have took us comfortably into top 4 IMO. All we needed was the right manager to go for better players and not waste it on old grot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 I feel a lot of sympathy for Lerner. I see him as the good-natured homeowner who hired the wrong guy to do the work. O'Neill didn't lack talent, just his methods were outdated. To go back to the abstract analogy, O'Neill put some great stuff in the house - a nice flat screen TV, some water features, but they all had to be sold off when it became apparent that the foundations were knackered. Agreed. We really could have done with a water feature in the garden as well, rather than the rocking chair in the porch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 I feel a lot of sympathy for Lerner. I see him as the good-natured homeowner who hired the wrong guy to do the work. O'Neill didn't lack talent, just his methods were outdated. To go back to the abstract analogy, O'Neill put some great stuff in the house - a nice flat screen TV, some water features, but they all had to be sold off when it became apparent that the foundations were knackered. AvfcRigo82 like's this . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted January 8, 2013 Moderator Share Posted January 8, 2013 Other teams spending and what they do is relevant to the argument about us challenging for a top 4 position. Other teams spending and what they do is not relevant when comparing our club under Doug to how it now is under Lerner. Blandy clearly saw an opportunity to try and point score and attempt to make me look foolish. But instead of taking the time to think about the two clearly different situations mentioned he jumped in two footed. I'm not trying to point score, or make youi look foolish (there's no need ) What I was trying to show with quoting you saying (apparently) 2 opposite things to "support" your points of views, was to show that there's something of a flaw in your assertion that us challenging or not for a high league position is affected by other team's spending, but you then say that us currently not challenging for a higher league placing and being in a lowly position and (and in your eyes "worse" than we were under Ellis) has nothing at all to do with other teams spending. Don't you see that saying that our ability to finish in the top 4 is influenced by other clubs, but our ability to stay away from the lower positions is not affected by other clubs, is somewhat inconsistent? And where we finish is the biggest factor regarding variation in income - Champions league places = massive money v Relegation = desperate situation financially. Our situation is in my view very much influenced and affected by the abilities of other clubs. You seem to imply it's only the case if you're near the top 4. That's bonkers. As has been said, we spent lots of Randy's money to have a go, and didn't make it. Now we're back to operating in a way where the club has to finance itself. As a result , other club's greater financial powers mean they are at an advantage. It's not so much transfer spending that correlates with league position, but wage bill compared to everyone else. That's the point of my disgareement with your seemingly opposing and inconsistent arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Finishing 4th under MON would probably not have solved our problems so I can't feel sorry for Lerner when in fact he was the one who failed to control our wages to income which was the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 When challenging other teams for 4th spot then clearly what they're doing has an impact on this club. Comparing the final year of Doug and the position we are in now IMO isn't effected by other clubs. We are worse off now because of the managerial appointments Lerner has made and the huge cuts in wages and quality to our squad. The fact we have to rely on young players who aren't good enough isn't anything to do with how well other teams are spending. Like I said the managerial appointments and the state of our current squad has nothing to do with other teams. Our current situation could be a lot better now if Lerner had made different decisions. Again nothing to do with what teams around us are currently doing or have done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Interesting how Randy gets blamed for not controlling wages yet when he finally did ask O'Neill to cut down on the spending he got slaughtered for having no "ambition". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Also you may have sympathy for his spending. I don't but you might for some reason. But even then things could have been different. He didn't have to cut spending so drastically, he didn't have to appoint houllier and he certainly didn't have to employ Mcleish. He's let this club down with his decisions. I can't have sympathy with him for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted January 8, 2013 Moderator Share Posted January 8, 2013 When challenging other teams for 4th spot then clearly what they're doing has an impact on this club. Comparing the final year of Doug and the position we are in now IMO isn't effected by other clubs. We are worse off now because of the managerial appointments Lerner has made and the huge cuts in wages and quality to our squad. The fact we have to rely on young players who aren't good enough isn't anything to do with how well other teams are spending. Like I said the managerial appointments and the state of our current squad has nothing to do with other teams. Our current situation could be a lot better now if Lerner had made different decisions. Again nothing to do with what teams around us are currently doing or have done. So the season of finishing 16th, under O'Leary, being unable to build the training ground, getting knocked out by Doncaster, 17 points half way through the season, the players ("just an honest bunch of lads")and manager in revolt over the Chairman..slagging off the fans as fickle for jeering when we were losing to Wycombe... .all that was better than now? are you sure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Of course it was blandy because at least that evil monster Randy Lerner wasn't in charge... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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