The Randy Lerner thread

[Risso]

why doesn't Randy just manage Villa? he should know about tactics, training, player abilities, etc. i mean, he does OWN the business doesn't he? he should know all these things! what? he doesn't have a UEFA pro license? GET THE **** OUT MY CLUB YOU DISGRACE

Very well put.

It is not Randy's job to look at players and decide which ones are worth buying. The chairman is not a DOF. The task of looking for and buying players falls into the hands of the manager.

People are saying "Randy should've known better than to spend all that money on Harewood". That's all well and good but the problem here is that if Randy did know better and had said no, MON would have probably stormed out and Randy would be blamed for not backing his manager. He simply cannot win. People will do anything to avoid putting any of the blame on St Martin.

O'Neill shares some of the blame for identifying such a raft full of shite, but the buck stops with Lerner. His money, his club, his glory if it all goes swimmingly, his fault when it all goes wrong. If he appointed O'Neill on the understanding that he'd never say no to any purchase request, then he's an even bigger idiot than he seems. Successful businessmen don't give carte blanche to managers for fear of them storming out. You appoint someone who you can work with within set parameters, and trust to make the most of the finances available.

[Denis_B]

Who has a better chairman? I asked. Spurs was you're suggestion. Levy appointed Redknapp as far as I am aware, and he is IMO the biggest factor in their doing well at the moment. But Levy has made all the same mistakes Lerner is getting criticised by you and others for.

I'm not convinced by your argument, I'm not convinced Randy is as bad as is being made out. If Levy has come good, it's after years of hit and miss decisions. He hasn't excelled, I think they're going through a purple patch. I think going by Levy's overall record, if he were Villa chairman, he wouldn't be any better than Randy.

You asked two questions actually, and I was answering the one about "the template we should follow". I didn't mention Levy at all until you did. And I am firmly convinced that Lerner IS as bad as is being made out, seriously, the man hasn't a clue how to run a football club. He appointed somebody in Faulkner who was a glorified customer service manager at MBNA, promoted him way beyond his actual ability, and since then hardly anything has gone right. He lost control of the finances completely, which in business is the mark of somebody who doesn't know what they're doing, and hasn't appointed the right team to run things. And as we can see in the economy as a whole, losing control of spending and then savagely cutting back on expenditure isn't the recipe for a successful and happy few years.

It's clear to me that RL has totally lost the plot, if he ever had one. Faulkner is a ver ynice man but we are laden with 'nice men' we need the ruthless touch and some direction.

There seems to be no plan for the future at the moment other than survive financially.

[Bazdavies79]

Who has a better chairman? I asked. Spurs was you're suggestion. Levy appointed Redknapp as far as I am aware, and he is IMO the biggest factor in their doing well at the moment. But Levy has made all the same mistakes Lerner is getting criticised by you and others for.

I'm not convinced by your argument, I'm not convinced Randy is as bad as is being made out. If Levy has come good, it's after years of hit and miss decisions. He hasn't excelled, I think they're going through a purple patch. I think going by Levy's overall record, if he were Villa chairman, he wouldn't be any better than Randy.

You asked two questions actually, and I was answering the one about "the template we should follow". I didn't mention Levy at all until you did. And I am firmly convinced that Lerner IS as bad as is being made out, seriously, the man hasn't a clue how to run a football club. He appointed somebody in Faulkner who was a glorified customer service manager at MBNA, promoted him way beyond his actual ability, and since then hardly anything has gone right. He lost control of the finances completely, which in business is the mark of somebody who doesn't know what they're doing, and hasn't appointed the right team to run things. And as we can see in the economy as a whole, losing control of spending and then savagely cutting back on expenditure isn't the recipe for a successful and happy few years.

Well Levy as far as I know has set the template for Spurs, if you're going to compare then surely Levy's is the one you're comparing to. Hit and miss managerial appointments, hit and miss performances during his tenure.

I know you're convinced Lerner is terrible, you just haven't convinced me. I'm not compelled by your arguments as I think they're flawed. I think mistakes have been made, but I think it's too early to say this lot don't know what they're doing.

[Zatman]

On the Levy point he is Spurs chairman last 10 years and has only really been doing well since 09. He went through many managers and players and Director of Footballs looking for success. Didnt become great over night

Who is to say Randy wont recover like Levy has

[Risso]

Because Levy isn't the money man, and Randy hasn't got any more spare funds. Randy is looking to sell I reckon, and as soon as a buyer comes along, we'll be rid of him.

[barry'sboots]

Arsenal for me is the club that is best run. But that club was run best when the manager was accompanied by someone who knew about football - David Dien. To be a well run club, IMO, you need a board that is made up of the following:

- someone who has run a £100 million turnover niche consumer business (NOT FAULKNER)

- someone who understands the football world and how agents/players etc. interact and is well networked and capable of understanding the going rate for players (WE DON'T HAVE THIS)

- a Finance Director who can operate excel and has the balls to say no to the rest of the board and the manager when necessary (NOT RUSSELL)

- a Chairman (/owner) who is consistent in his approach and wants to surround himself with strong experienced people who can contribute and not just people he likes who will lick his arse when he pops in for a holiday (WE DON'T HAVE THIS)

- someone who understands PR and can create a brand/empathise with fans (WE DON'T HAVE THIS)

- a Manager that won't turn off a large proportion of the fan base (WE DON'T HAVE THIS)

[macandally]

I have to be honest and say that although I am no fan of McLeish or indeed Faulkner, I amazed at how short the memories are of some on here.

Have you not been to the Holte Pub?

Have you seen Bodymore Heath?

Can you remember how poor the squad was the first year ONeill came in?

For those who are looking lovingly back to the Ellis years, get a grip. It was shit, we were truelly going nowhere with for the most part, mediocre signings (McCann anyone?)

Lerner came in and gave us all genuine hope. I think the anger now is because that hope appears to some degree to have been misplaced and we are back in the realms of midtable. The positives are that the club is finding an even keel financially and the facilites are excellent.

The problem as I see it is that there is very little, publically known about how Randy sees us moving forward. The letters with ST show that there is cost cutting going on which is inevitable. Unless you believe the labour government, spending is not the best way out of debt. I am sure there is a plan, but it appears everytime they try to suggest it to the fans, it is met with widespread disdain.

The biggest concern to me is not Lerner or the financial plans for the club, it is the lack of strategy on the playing side. I dont see any indication that people are looking to achieve a, b or c in 3/5/7 years time. The transfer policy is ad hoc and knee jerk and if there was serious aspirations to utilise our youth development, we would be getting more kids out on loan to lower clubs earlier. I wont hide the fact I dont rate McLeish or the way we went from "football philosophy" to relegated neighbour as the driving factor for our recruitment. To me, Faulkner needs to go and a "David Dein" type figure needs to be found who can understand the financial limitations, but also drive forward the playing side of a club.

[Bazdavies79]

Because Levy isn't the money man, and Randy hasn't got any more spare funds. Randy is looking to sell I reckon, and as soon as a buyer comes along, we'll be rid of him.

Ok Levy, Lewis, ENIC whoever, they've all made the same mistakes Randy has and worse - they've stumbled on Redknapp a good manager (and a man most VT'ers would never have hired) and they're doing well at the moment. But their overal record is hardly a template for success.

Lewis incidentally, lost the best part of a billion dollars after buying shares in Bear Stearns, not the best business move.

[Bazdavies79]

Arsenal for me is the club that is best run. But that club was run best when the manager was accompanied by someone who knew about football - David Dien. To be a well run club, IMO, you need a board that is made up of the following:

- someone who has run a £100 million turnover niche consumer business (NOT FAULKNER)

- someone who understands the football world and how agents/players etc. interact and is well networked and capable of understanding the going rate for players (WE DON'T HAVE THIS)

- a Finance Director who can operate excel and has the balls to say no to the rest of the board and the manager when necessary (NOT RUSSELL)

- a Chairman (/owner) who is consistent in his approach and wants to surround himself with strong experienced people who can contribute and not just people he likes who will lick his arse when he pops in for a holiday (WE DON'T HAVE THIS)

- someone who understands PR and can create a brand/empathise with fans (WE DON'T HAVE THIS)

- a Manager that won't turn off a large proportion of the fan base (WE DON'T HAVE THIS)

Arsenal hired a good manager and initially invested heavily in the side. They had a bit of success but since the investment levels dropped they have slowly slipped back.

[PIW]

Say what you like about randy the fact is that this season he is pulling up the drawbridge. Probably too quickly. In a way its a microcosm of what is going on with the nation's accounts. Randy has done a lot of superficial good things such as nice new windows, Bodymoor Heath, a pub, and some free coaches. But, the reason we're in this mess is because he just allowed O'Neill to spend willingly on overpriced overpaid 30 somethings. And then they were just stockpiled and never used.

It is now clear that teh General was just here to tell us that Randy is great and for us all not to criticise him. How often did we hear that teh General hoped Randy didn't read any criticism? Intended to make us stop in case Randy wondered why he bothered. Many of us fell for it hook line and sinker and rushed to the General's/Randy's defence if a post questioned the board. Teh General was here simply to keep us on message and that message was that Randy Was Great. message sites were falling over themselves to get the General to post on their site. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but we all fell for the amazing PR of teh club.

Now look. Randy has been shown up for the poor businessman that he is. I haven't said this too many times but I agree with Risso. he hasn't worked for his millions and has just pumped money into his plaything hoping it would be great. O'Neill probably told him it would be and he beleiebved him. he now realises that he's not as rich as he needs to be to get where we want to. A lot of people said that he needs to have a football man as CEO so that there is a bridge between him and the manager. We got Fitzthingy who for some reason didn''t last and now faulkner who is out of his depth here.

I'm not looking to ship the owner out just yet as someone keen for a plaything is always useful. but as long as they have some savvy people behind. get rid of Faulkner - get in someone like Stride and also possibly a Graham Taylor figure. Then the stock of the club would rise, they would identify what the club and the playing side would need, and we wouldn't have the same half-arsed farcical managerial selecting.

[Bazdavies79]

What's this mess we're in?

[PIW]

You haven't noticed? Selling all our best players and not being able to replace them because of wages being 80% or so of turnover. Not being able to shift those we never play because they are on extremely high wages. No? none of that ringing a bell?

[Bazdavies79]

7th in the league, unbeaten - a solid if unspectacular start to the season? Good youngsters coming through? An in form Gabby? A superb striker (Bent)? A reasonably solid defence? A superb keeper? Any of that ring a bell?

[AshVilla]

Look at the teams we have played..... this weekend will be a test of how far we have come under the McLeish regime will we bottle it and not turn up like we did under Houllier or will we give a good account of ourselves and try to get something from the game.

I do not care if we lose i just want us to turn up and give it a go unlike we did against QPR and give them to much respect.

I know one thing for certain if we try to do what we did against QPR and play anti football for 45 minutes in an aim not to concede then nick a goal in the 2nd half and try and steal the points we will have no chance Man City have far to much quality and will unlock our defence at will.

[Rob182]

O'Neill shares some of the blame for identifying such a raft full of shite, but the buck stops with Lerner. His money, his club, his glory if it all goes swimmingly, his fault when it all goes wrong. If he appointed O'Neill on the understanding that he'd never say no to any purchase request, then he's an even bigger idiot than he seems.

Did Lerner appoint O'Neill?

[Jon]

O'Neill shares some of the blame for identifying such a raft full of shite, but the buck stops with Lerner. His money, his club, his glory if it all goes swimmingly, his fault when it all goes wrong. If he appointed O'Neill on the understanding that he'd never say no to any purchase request, then he's an even bigger idiot than he seems.

Did Lerner appoint O'Neill?

To all intents and , he did, yes.

[Risso]

7th in the league, unbeaten - a solid if unspectacular start to the season? Good youngsters coming through? An in form Gabby? A superb striker (Bent)? A reasonably solid defence? A superb keeper? Any of that ring a bell?

Half a dozen games isn't enough to hide the fact that off the pitch, things are in a shocking state.

[makouns_grin]

Half a dozen games isn't enough to hide the fact that off the pitch, things are in a shocking state.

What shocking like Plymouth?

Or shocking like Villa fans making a big deal out of nothing because there is not billions swimming around?

[Zatman]

Half a dozen games isn't enough to hide the fact that off the pitch, things are in a shocking state.

bit over dramatic.

sha, portsmouth are in shocking states. Villa are still on sound financial footing

[PIW]

7th in the league, unbeaten - a solid if unspectacular start to the season? Good youngsters coming through? An in form Gabby? A superb striker (Bent)? A reasonably solid defence? A superb keeper? Any of that ring a bell?

So, you're happy with the way things are at the moment? You think that 2 wins out of 7 from our very easy start is a good return? As for the good youngsters that's all they are at the moment. Good youngsters there's no guarantee even one of them will be first-team regulars. And whilst Rome is burning let's just pat ourselves on the back that we have Darren bent. great, but who is going to create for him?

Clearly the playing side needs 3 or 4 players minimum. We can't get them because of our wage bill. We need to get more players out before we get players in and you think what we have now is good enough? We were better last year and we struggled for most of the season. We can't get more players in because as a business we have been poorly managed and now those big birds are coming home to roost.

As defines Villa we haven't grabbed the bull by the horns when we had the opportunity to do so. We're sitting back crossing our fingers and hoping that what we have is good enough. For the first time in a long time if we combined a Villa and Fulham team, Villa and Stoke, Villa and Newcastle we'd find a lot more of their players getting into our team than has been seen for a while. And ask yourself who's anti-football would you watch if you had to all things being equal, that of Pulis or McLeish?

randy is now constantly getting things wrong off the pitch. No matter how many free coaches are laid on big changes in personnel behind the scenes are needed. the car crash that is faulkner is the first.