The Randy Lerner thread

[thetrees]

I'm sorry, but this is simply not true. You moan about people who don't stick to the facts, when you don't yourself.

Err, I didn't notice me moaning. I merely provide information in relation to the movements of the owner that it would be unreasonable to expect most VTers to know, factual information that contradicts opinion often seen on here and in the media.

Who exactly let Lerner down re: O'Neill? Faulkner? Or O'Neill himself? If you mean Faulkner then that stems back to Lerner anyway because it was Lerner's choice to surround himself with his mates instead of footballing people. And if you mean O'Neill, that is also a daft statement to make, considering O'Neill was by and large a success at this club. It was not O’Neill who sanctioned the unsustainable and suicidal transfer and wage deals.

'I think' generally indicates that the writer is giving an opinion. My opinion is that O'Neill was a huge failure, given that he had the largest backing of any Villa manager and did not achieve any of the perceived objectives. Your opinion is that he was 'by and large a success', so we agree to differ.

There is no question as to who sanctioned O'Neill's spending, which was, I think, extremely foolish, but the zero return on that investment is why I believe that the investor was let down.

I'm really getting fed up with people still blinded by some sort of "he's better than Doug, so he must be a really good owner" mentality among a lot of fans. See my detailed post in the 'Lerner: The fans will always own Aston Villa 2006' thread for some actual facts about this so-called "best owner in your lifetime". If that is indeed the case, then it doesn't say much for the quality of our past chairman. Randloph Lerner has and is a complete and utter failure and is fully culpable for this god awful mess we find ourselves in thanks to two and a half years of spiralling decline. Read my aforementioned post if you honestly can't understand why.

Now you are moaning!

We have had some poor owners, and I have already mentioned positives of Mr.Lerner's tenure off the pitch.

I agree that he is fully culpable, the buck stops with him. Indeed I believe that the 'spiralling decline' goes back further than you do.

But, as I stated before, he is not going anywhere, so we have to hope that he starts to get things right.

[JulieB]

When you're in the mire I think an owner should be there. I didn't know RL attended the Bolton game I was going on what Radio WM were saying after Stoke game.

Julie, Paul Franks on WM, normally a half decent radio hack, constantly bangs on about our 'absentee owner'. Recently he did this two Mondays on the trot, on both days of which Mr Lerner had arrived early morning. Uninformed journalism at its worst, unless WM is just trying to attract TalkShite listeners.

Last week the owner arrived at 0830 on Sunday morning (which I found strange), and left at lunchtime yesterday, so again a reasonable shift.

Thanks for setting the record straight.

I have heard rumours he's selling up mind. However we shall see, perhaps he's asking investors to come on board.

I think he's a genuine person and Lerner should be applauded for what he's done for the club's infrastructure, but just like at the Brown's - his appointments of managers/coaches has to be questioned.

As the owner though the buck stops with him.

MON might be a good manager in some respects, but I'll bet Sunderland keep him away from the cheque book and as he likes to be in control of ALL matters I'm not sure he'll be there for the long haul. Maybe MON has learned from his mistakes at Villa though.

Houllier and McLeish have just been disastrous appointments. It's just a pity Lerner couldn't prize his first choice away to come to the club, when MON left and also last summer.

The next appointment, he needs to get right and he should listen to footballing minds not make up his mind based on who gives a good interview.

However I would remind people of what Gary McAllister's said live on Sky about the club when he left... Nothing but good things to say about us, absolutely top class club, run properly.

We have alot of good things to be proud of at Aston Villa - not least the academy, the club and the back room set up. Let's put all these moans and groans to one side just for a couple of weeks and give the youngsters 110% backing to make sure we stay up!

[dukes]

Thanks for setting the record straight.

I have heard rumours he's selling up mind. However we shall see, perhaps he's asking investors to come on board.

I think he's a genuine person and Lerner should be applauded for what he's done for the club's infrastructure, but just like at the Brown's - his appointments of managers/coaches has to be questioned.

As the owner though the buck stops with him.

MON might be a good manager in some respects, but I'll bet Sunderland keep him away from the cheque book and as he likes to be in control of ALL matters I'm not sure he'll be there for the long haul. Maybe MON has learned from his mistakes at Villa though.

Houllier and McLeish have just been disastrous appointments. It's just a pity Lerner couldn't prize his first choice away to come to the club, when MON left and also last summer.

The next appointment, he needs to get right and he should listen to footballing minds not make up his mind based on who gives a good interview.

However I would remind people of what Gary McAllister's said live on Sky about the club when he left... Nothing but good things to say about us, absolutely top class club, run properly.

We have alot of good things to be proud of at Aston Villa - not least the academy, the club and the back room set up. Let's put all these moans and groans to one side just for a couple of weeks and give the youngsters 110% backing to make sure we stay up!

As always a top post Julie !

I don't personally don't buy all ths "Lerener's a shit owner" stuff. I think at the time Houllier was a risk worth taking, but the lazy, Neanderthal squad assembled by MON were either not capable, or just chose not to change their style. Regarding Houllier's and MON's management style you probably couldn't get two managers further apart. mON is known for getting the absolute best out if his players through motivation, Houllier is renowned or his technical coaching style. In my opinion for long term success Houllier would have been the better bet, and I'd have loved to ave seen what he'd have done lasts umber if things worked out differently.

McLeish was one of the most rediculous appointments that any football club has ever made, it was never going to work, and Randy gas to accept responsibility for that.

On the commercial front, Faulkner seems to be doing a good job in difficult market conditions, but I do think they need a permanent footballing man on the board, or as a DOF, then again I have no idea who that could be, as Graham Taylor has supposedly been involved with the board in the past, and if he had anything to do with the McLeish appointment then that should rule him out. Lots of fans on here judge Faulkner supposing that he's been targeted with getting us Champions League football as per the original 5 year plan, but the truth is we don't know what objectives he has. The one man who can judge him is Randy, and he appears generally happy with that side.

I suspect we will have a new manager this summer, I'm prepared to give Randy and his team more time to get things right, but football is a results orientated business, and the selection of the new manager will make or break his tine at this great club of ours.

[blandy]

I'm really getting fed up with people still blinded by some sort of "he's better than Doug, so he must be a really good owner" mentality among a lot of fans....

I think that while different opinions, passionate opinions are all good and well, this oft repeated assertion, not borne out by any evidence whatsoever, that people who don't think everything Randy has done is terrible are "blinded" and incapable of independent thought and analysis and just "support Randy because he's not Ellis" is tiresome and indicative of perhaps not actually having seen what people have said.

I'm not sure that I've seen anyone defend the appointment of McLeish, or say that it wasn't a mistake by Randy/Paul.

I don't think there are many, if any, who think much of the communications coming from the club, such as there are.

There is debate as to how much responsibility for the current plight at the club lies with different people, but again, I don't think I've see anyone say "none of it is Randy's fault or responsibility".

In other words everyone as far as I have seen believes Randy has made some major mistakes.

The differences we have are seemingly over whether people think (in essence) he's basically a good guy with good intentions and commitment to the club, who needs to wise up on the football side of things, or get some better help and advice in that area" or people who think "he's a terrible owner and the only solution is for him to get out now"

I don't think any reference to the previous chairman is relevant to where we are, whether Randy is capable of sorting things out or not, or is ever used as a defence of Randy. Sure some people have said "it's be better under Ellis" or "it would have been worse under Ellis, if he were still in charge", but again, that's not a defence of either viewpoint.

People put different weight on different aspects of what Randy has done - some veer towards "I don't care about much other than the team's results and league position as that's what I pay to see" and others veer towards "The investment in the Ground, training ground, pub, scarves, coaches, customer relations, ticket office and such like is creditable and worth taking into account".

If people were to stop setting themselves to believe that anyone who has a different view to them must be "blinded" or "it's because he's not Ellis" they'd be doing themselves a favour, perhaps. Obviously I know one or two have just declared that they will refuse to believe anyone who says anything good about Randy isn't doing so "because he's not Ellis", but that's sometimes what you get, I guess. Even from clever people. It's a shame, though.

[blandy]

Oh and good post , Julie.

[Denis_B]

Any one stepping into MONs boots had a difficult job to do with his dross and a tightening financial position to deal with. Good posts by Blandy and Julie that have much merit and I now see the benefit of having GH last season but he needed more time once he saw the problems he had. He obviously was unable to see the job through but I cannot for the life of me understand why McEck was ever picked for the job. Randy had some plans surely when GH was appointed what on earth was his plan with McEck?

A senior general manager needs to come in as has been said many times to work with PF and a good manager/coach for the footbaling side. I think that PF doing his financial bit and developing the business side has many positives but he cannot and should not have anything to do with the footballing side. That is an area that needs knowledge, experience and contacts.

Lets just hope we can see this season through and hope that Lerner truly has learnt a big and very painful lesson and works out the way forward with that in mind

[Big_John_10]

The differences we have are seemingly over whether people think (in essence) he's basically a good guy with good intentions and commitment to the club,

Then why aren't you defending heskey, mcleish and others who get stick the same way?

Why is it that good intentions and being a failure is ok for our owner but no ok for some players and the manager?

My guess is because mcleish and heskey didn't replace Doug.

[blandy]

:shock: It's like you don't read what's written, deliberately selectively quote (cutting out "[he] needs to wise up on the football side of things") and instead put words into people's mouths - like "being a failure is ok for our owner " - I'm not aware anyone has said anything like that. Perhaps you can show me?

In simple terms:-

he's made some bad decisions, particularly with managerial appointments - that's not "defending him".

He's made some good decisions and done some good things - like the Ground, training ground, putting money in, commercial stuff and so on. If pointing that out is defending him against comments that he's a complete failure in all regards, then I'm happy to do so. It has nothing to do with Ellis. What Ellis did or didn't do is utterly irrelevant and is history.

I'm quite happy to say that I think McLeish is committed and hard working. Same for Heskey. So in that one regard, I'll "defend" them, though what relevance their hard work has to this thread beats me.

[Big_John_10]

he's made some bad decisions, particularly with managerial appointments - that's not "defending him".

You've pointed out a fault but on the whole defend him because he has good intentions.

"he needs to wise up on the football side of things"

Again this could be said about mcleish but no one is jumping to his defence because his intentions are good.

On the pitch we are worse than when he took over.

Good intentions but ultimatley a massive failure and people will jump to his defence. I doubt those same people would do this if it wasn't doug he'd replaced.

[John]

Graham Taylor from The Times today:

"I think there are foreign owners who still haven't grasped what English football's about. I'm surrounded by Villa fans where I live and because of the secrecy that seems to surround the club these days, they don't know what's happening partly because Randy, like a lot of overseas owners, doesn't do interviews. Before Gerard Houllier was appointed, I was asked by Paul Faulkner to meet with him and Randy Learner after the Everton game. I went, was quite happy to offer any advice that was required, but then Randy was engaged with other guests sent his apologies and I spoke with Paul instead. I wasn't asked about the managerial situation but I did say I thought if Villa were going to push on from the Martin O'Neill era, they were going to have to cover the foreign (transfer) market better. I was put out, having gone to meet the chairman and chief executive, to hear the owner was unable to see me. I'm not so certain where the football knowledge is on the Villa board. Steve Stride was a great football secretary in my day and I do believe you need a football man on the inside. Don't worry, I'm not offering my services, but football knowledge is essential to a board".

Shocking that others were considered so vital to meet that Randy would stand up a former Engalnd manager. :shock: I would guess the football knowledge on our board is limited to American Football and given what Graham has said he may sadly not be invited to provide this which for me is a pity.

Of the managerial situation he adds:

"Here are people, who have said nothing, now saying this week he's got our full support - for 3 games. I bet that pleases Alex. Who's responsible for this appointment process? My view is, no manager can do anything inside one year. Any manager needs 3 years to say he's had a chance to impose his own style. Dismissing anyone within one year, that's not fair. The club was in turmoil when they appointed Alex and he knew there was no money as the club looked to curtail the wage bill". But he added, "If they do get relegated - as Birmingham City are getting promoted in the play offs on the other side of the city - then that has to be enough for any manager to be sacked. Villa supporters would not be able to see straight but its the people making the appointments who need to share responsibility".

Any sharing of responsibility was not what was being considered when they made the appointment I would suggest.

[Denis_B]

What an insightful pice from SGT - just a bit late in theday

[brendanvillatalk]

So if the days under DOL and Doug were "the dark days".....what are we calling these times? We weren't happy with being a nearly team but I'd swap what we have now for DOL and Doug.

[islingtonclaret]

Really scary that he is telling us what we all feared - no experience of football at board level.

[Big_John_10]

Our worst home record in the history of the club.

We also came incredibly close to setting two more club records for shitness this season.

You mean well though so good work Randy

[JulieB]

Really scary that he is telling us what we all feared - no experience of football at board level.

Yep and many have been saying this for a while now.

If football was any other business many clubs would have gone bankrupt - it's only because the banksters or wealthy owners playing with toys - have seen fit to let them run on overdraft on terms and amounts that they simply wouldn't allow for any other business.

(Keeps the peasants happy methinks whilst they gamble the world's finances away whilst counting next years bonus!)

But Football isn't like any other business - it's a passion - it effects us all. None more so than when you're a Villa fan. There's just something different about us Villains and if Lerner and Faulkner truly understood what being a supporter of Aston Villa Football Club REALLY means, then they wouldn't have entertained signing McLeish for one second.

[Oaks]

At this present time I'm still just about pro Lerner, but he has one last chance. We need a good young up and coming manager next season with a decent wedge to spend (I'm talking £15-20 million), if neither of these things happen Doug might well of not sold were almost back where we started with a shit kit, gambling sponsorship and a hated manager bound to get relegated.

[steve_avfc]

Is Randy about to see sense ?? Read this http://www.birminghammail.net/news/birmingham-news/2012/04/29/aston-villa-boss-alex-mcleish-almost-certain-to-go-at-end-of-season-97319-30864510/

[pacbuddies]

Randy Lerner has one more chance to get it right. His two managerial appointments to date have been dodgy followed by sheer disaster.

I don't think Villa fans will be very forgiving if he fails to heed advice, seek the opinion of people in football (but not letters of recommendation from Alex Ferguson which are obviously about as much use as toilet paper) and respect the fans in the season to come.

Randy, we are watching!

[WallheathLions]

Mr Randolph Lerner I beg you to immediately following the Norwich game sack Mr Alex McLeish and Mr Peter Grant along with Mr Alan Hutton followed very closely behind by Mr Paul Faulkner, these people are positively not fit to grace the corridors of Villa Park they have between them destroyed this proud club. They must be the most disrespected people ever to be involved with Aston Villa Football Club !!!

Once these sewer rats have been removed from Villa we can again begin to move forward with unity.

Mr Lerner we can give you a second chance to understand what Aston Villa Football Club is about, but if you don,t react with haste your tenure of this club will be questioned deeply and commercially you will suffer greatly.

[VillaAndLoyal]

Mr Randolph Lerner I beg you to immediately following the Norwich game sack Mr Alex McLeish and Mr Peter Grant along with Mr Alan Hutton followed very closely behind by Mr Paul Faulkner, these people are positively not fit to grace the corridors of Villa Park they have between them destroyed this proud club. They must be the most disrespected people ever to be involved with Aston Villa Football Club !!!

Once these sewer rats have been removed from Villa we can again begin to move forward with unity.

Mr Lerner we can give you a second chance to understand what Aston Villa Football Club is about, but if you don,t react with haste your tenure of this club will be questioned deeply and commercially you will suffer greatly.

This post, like many on the topic of Lerner, makes no sense whatsoever. You moan about all the people who need firing, as they have "destroyed" this once great club, while completely neglecting to mention who hired them all in the first place?!?! Mr Randolph Lerner is culpable above all, and don't you forget it, for those of you who foolishly wish to give him "a second chance" when he's lost about seven lives already.