El-Reacho Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 and still does, as much as I do not want him anywhere near the running of the club and was vehemently opposed ( and still am ) to his ownership. I can tell you for a fact how gutted he is at the current state of the team. Are you referring to Doug or Randy here? (No sarcasm intended.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Ellis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-Reacho Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Is he gutted at the management of the team or the quality of the players? It would be a bit rich if he was gutted about the quality of the players given the squad we had when he sold up. This McLeish saga is something that would never have happened when he was here, but then so are most of the signings from the last six years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Someone I know who works at VP on matchday was told by two different sources before Mondays game that we were offered Nikica Jelavic in January before he moved to Everton but couldnt afford the fee (around £6 million) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimzk5 Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Someone I know who works at VP on matchday was told by two different sources before Mondays game that we were offered Nikica Jelavic in January before he moved to Everton but couldnt afford the fee (around £6 million) when you think last transfer winder we spent over £6million on makoun. christ this club knows how to depress its fanbase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Bit of a random question but why did we have to pay houllier money? Was thinking about the £12 million paid to houllier and MON and just wondering why houllier got anything. He himself eventually admitted he wasn't physically able to go back into management so why did he get such a large pay out? Maybe the wrong thread for it but it just got me curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Given that Randy did the unthinkable to piss off the fan base last season - what price Roger Johnson and Andy Carroll arriving this summer ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloBarnesi Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Ellis What I am coming to the conclusion is that Ellis who was a royal pain in the arse, would appoint a manager he didn’t necessarily get on with. It seems for Lerner & Faulkner that they want to appoint managers who they get on with and they can work with. Obviously with Ellis it mean’t that all managers had a shelf life, but when he picked the right man; Taylor or Atkinson, it could lead to success. Perhaps with Lerner and Faulkner they will appoint managers where it will be successful, but I think they need to avoid ruling out managers because they aren’t yes men. A bad experience with MON shouldn’t stop them widening the ring... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted April 13, 2012 Moderator Share Posted April 13, 2012 Bit of a random question but why did we have to pay houllier money? Was thinking about the £12 million paid to houllier and MON and just wondering why houllier got anything. He himself eventually admitted he wasn't physically able to go back into management so why did he get such a large pay out? Maybe the wrong thread for it but it just got me curious. He didn't admit he was too sick, he held out to be paid off. He said he needed time to recover and then he would continue, similar to the prolonged spell he had off at Liverpool while Phil Thompson was in charge who incidently took Liverpool to their highest PL finish! So Houllier didn't step down and wanted to honour his contract but Lerner didn't allow him to and (rightly) removed him from the post thus the payoff. So Houllier got the pension top up he came for and walked away with several million. Then a few months later admitted his managerial career was over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iancharlie Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Bit of a random question but why did we have to pay houllier money? Was thinking about the £12 million paid to houllier and MON and just wondering why houllier got anything. He himself eventually admitted he wasn't physically able to go back into management so why did he get such a large pay out? Maybe the wrong thread for it but it just got me curious. Houllier would have got something from a contractual perspective (cant remeber how long the contract was) - they had to terminate his contract. subject to villa taking the right tax advice they should have been able to get HMRC's clearance that it is a payment in relation to ill health and disability and would not therefore be either taxable on Houllier or subject to NIC on Villa or Houllier in its entirety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 So Houllier got the pension top up he came for and walked away with several million. Then a few months later admitted his managerial career was over. I knew he admitted his managerial career was over. Couldn't remember when he said it. I'm no legal expert but would the club not have grounds to claim the money back after he admitted this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted April 13, 2012 Moderator Share Posted April 13, 2012 So Houllier got the pension top up he came for and walked away with several million. Then a few months later admitted his managerial career was over. I knew he admitted his managerial career was over. Couldn't remember when he said it. I'm no legal expert but would the club not have grounds to claim the money back after he admitted this? No they wouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Only Lerner would appoint someone with a dodgy heart into a stressful job and then pay £millions in compensation to sack him when, strangely enough, he had a heart scare....what a surprise! I wonder if Lerner has ever heard of pre-employment medicals, medical questionnaires and the duty not to employ someone into a position that is likely to aggravate or make worse a pre-existing medical condition? Lerner truly is a very rich plonker! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 How far into the long term was Randy looking when he allowed wages to spiral out of control to 80+% of our revenue? How far into the future was he looking when he appointed a manager with a history of heart problems or one who was unlikely to be accepted by a huge proportion of the fan base with a negative impact upon our revenue? I'm sorry but I think you way off the mark. The point I was making is that that amount of spending on both fees and wages for that amount of time has minimal impact on Lerner's overall picture. To him it was a risk worth taking. He's even said he has no regrets over any of O'Neill's signings. Do you really think he's going to make such a high profile investment (regardless of value), and run it as haphazardly as everyone on here thinks he's doing? Do you think people are unwilling to do business with Lerner's other companies because of his supposed incompetency in the handling of Villa's finances or recruitment policy? Lerner and his pals have grown up in big business. He doesn't see the running of club the way the fans do, and as he's clearly demonstrated he doesn't care for the fans' opinions on how to run the club. He will do it like he does his other businesses (successful and unsuccessful). The appointment of managers is a slightly different issue, but needless to say he's making decisions based on the recommendations of a recruitment agency (certainly in Houllier's case, pretty sure in McLeish's). But again McLeish's stint will be negligible in the overall picture IMHO. It's probably why he'll be here for the next season at least. I'm sorry, but he has run the club exceedingly badly, and if you can show me a successful company that follows the Randy Lerner blueprint for Villa, I'll eat my own shoes. After 6 years, we've made huge losses, sold most of our better players and have a terrible manager who has alienated most of the customer base. If you want to dress it up in management speak, then in the BCG matrix, Aston Villa is a dog. Lerner does NOT know what he's doing, and trying to dress up the incompetent way he runs he club as part of some grand medium term plan is desperate in the extreme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted April 13, 2012 Moderator Share Posted April 13, 2012 Lerner does NOT know what he's doing.. .. the only people at the club that have decent football knowledge... are the fans. In the interests of finding out what people think, then, if we assume the above two posts are right, that means we know what needs to be done, right? So what is it? What is our "knowledgeable" advice. I wouldn't claim to be more knowledgeable that the people at the club, so I'll leave it to the people who think they are to answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Platt Posted April 13, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted April 13, 2012 Lerner does NOT know what he's doing.. .. the only people at the club that have decent football knowledge... are the fans. In the interests of finding out what people think, then, if we assume the above two posts are right, that means we know what needs to be done, right? So what is it? What is our "knowledgeable" advice. I wouldn't claim to be more knowledgeable that the people at the club, so I'll leave it to the people who think they are to answer. Not saying i know more than anyone at the club but ok here goes. Appoint a young up and coming manager that has done his time in the lower leagues and been successful like Lambert (Colchester then onto Norwich with consectutive promotions and an amazing first season in the Premier League.) Add in his European Cup winning exploits as a player with Dortmund. Give him £20million and whatever he generates in sales and admit you made a mistake with Mcleish. Bring in a CEO that has a football background like maybe Steve Stride he knows Villa inside and out. One thing i cant knock the club on is the interest free deals on season tickets at the moment so if people dont buy into that sort of plan, then i guess we are screwed as a club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 When you've failed so spectacularly, the best course of action is to get out while your investment is still worth something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-Reacho Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 How far into the long term was Randy looking when he allowed wages to spiral out of control to 80+% of our revenue? How far into the future was he looking when he appointed a manager with a history of heart problems or one who was unlikely to be accepted by a huge proportion of the fan base with a negative impact upon our revenue? I'm sorry but I think you way off the mark. The point I was making is that that amount of spending on both fees and wages for that amount of time has minimal impact on Lerner's overall picture. To him it was a risk worth taking. He's even said he has no regrets over any of O'Neill's signings. Do you really think he's going to make such a high profile investment (regardless of value), and run it as haphazardly as everyone on here thinks he's doing? Do you think people are unwilling to do business with Lerner's other companies because of his supposed incompetency in the handling of Villa's finances or recruitment policy? Lerner and his pals have grown up in big business. He doesn't see the running of club the way the fans do, and as he's clearly demonstrated he doesn't care for the fans' opinions on how to run the club. He will do it like he does his other businesses (successful and unsuccessful). The appointment of managers is a slightly different issue, but needless to say he's making decisions based on the recommendations of a recruitment agency (certainly in Houllier's case, pretty sure in McLeish's). But again McLeish's stint will be negligible in the overall picture IMHO. It's probably why he'll be here for the next season at least. I'm sorry, but he has run the club exceedingly badly, and if you can show me a successful company that follows the Randy Lerner blueprint for Villa, I'll eat my own shoes. After 6 years, we've made huge losses, sold most of our better players and have a terrible manager who has alienated most of the customer base. If you want to dress it up in management speak, then in the BCG matrix, Aston Villa is a dog. Lerner does NOT know what he's doing, and trying to dress up the incompetent way he runs he club as part of some grand medium term plan is desperate in the extreme. There's about three clubs in world football that are possibly not dogs. After all the losses the club's made he'd easily break even if he wanted to sell up and that's after just six years. He knows that he can easily send us back up the table as he's already done it with O'Neill and he will do it again - I'm absolutely sure of it. This summer we'll be in pretty much an identical position to the club that he took over, so he knows that he can just start again. The original five year plan was drawn up because they spotted an opportunity to break into the top four and took a risk, which didn't pay off. Lerner and his team will be waiting for another opportunity to invest, when the risks aren't too high then he'll go again. IMHO he'll wait to see how the FFP rules pan out or if Arsenal and Spurs fall away significantly. He will also be trying to gauge if anyone like Liverpool/Everton/Sunderland will come in and do another Man City and scupper any chances. Just my take on what's going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted April 13, 2012 Moderator Share Posted April 13, 2012 After all the losses the club's made he'd easily break even if he wanted to sell up and that's after just six years. There is wrong and then there is this, you are far past wrong I don't even know what to call it. There is zero chance, absolutely none of him being able to sell the club and break even on his investment. He knows that he can easily send us back up the table as he's already done it with O'Neill and he will do it again - I'm absolutely sure of it. Er no he doesn't he hasn't the first clue which is how we've ended up with McLeish. Martin O'Neill got us to 6th but it took him the best part of £100m to do it, nobody else is going to get that sort of backing. This summer we'll be in pretty much an identical position to the club that he took over, so he knows that he can just start again. The original five year plan was drawn up because they spotted an opportunity to break into the top four and took a risk, which didn't pay off. Yes it is which just goes to show what a rubbish job he has done. Only the club won't be in the same position as when he arrived because this time we have massive debt. Lerner and his team will be waiting for another opportunity to invest, when the risks aren't too high then he'll go again. IMHO he'll wait to see how the FFP rules pan out or if Arsenal and Spurs fall away significantly. He will also be trying to gauge if anyone like Liverpool/Everton/Sunderland will come in and do another Man City and scupper any chances. This is based on nothing but blind hope. Just my take on what's going on. Why? Because it appears as if you've not the first clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-Reacho Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 El-Reacho wrote: Just my take on what's going on. Why? Because it appears as if you've not the first clue. Fair enough, I don't know what's going on behind the scenes and you don't know what's going on behind the scenes but I'll withhold my views because you're right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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