The Randy Lerner thread

[maqroll]

Its quite simple the Villa fans should run the club, they already know SO much about what managers are available and will come, what players will, how easy it is to generate money (just make it) and all the other answers which usually means calling for PF head.

Quite simply if he hadn't appointed McLeish and had continued spending money he would be a good owner, because he is only a bad owner recently because he's not doing that and telling us about everything.

Villa fans continuing to be an embarrassment.

Spend money appoint popular manager, communicate = good owner.

Cannot afford to spend money appoint unpopular manager, limit communication = bad owner.

Communicate = still a bad owner its not what we wanted to hear.

Fans in general should be ignored, as we would have a new manager after every bad performance and would be billions of pounds in debt.

I'm sorry but that is rubbish and mostly because it is a generalisation and you have put something there to fit your argument.

I accept we arent going to spend a lot of money, that doesnt bother me, what does bother me is inept decision making i.e. the appointment of the manager. We all said that was a bad decision at the time and I think Alex is proving that and will continue to prove that. We arent going to win the league but what I do expect in each game is that we at least give it a good go about contesting that game, not wave the white flag before the whistle is blown. I expect the Owner to appoint a reasonable manager and what has Alex done to prove he is that?.....his record certainly doesnt prove that.

We all dont want masses of money spent, yes we would love it but we understand reality and where we are as a club and you have to just stop using that as your argument because a few might and have said that. I want to be proud of my club and team, and when we lose at least I can walk away from the ground and know at least we tried.......I cannot say that after the Spurs game......

Why bother responding to the Blue Nose wind up merchant. He just posts the same every time and never reads/responds to anybodies actual post.

I was thinking he's Blues....thick enough to be, anyway.

[makouns_grin]

I'm not saying Lerner is an 'awful terrible owner'. I don't think anyone would go that far. But he has failed badly at some of the basics.

I would, this thread wouldn't be as big if people didn't think that.

Hes not allowed to make mistakes, some have a problem with how he is wealthy as well, which is laughable.

I'm sure they would have a problem with a Sheikh mansour type as well

Any owner will make mistakes, spend too much money, not spend too much money. He really is not that bad.

The main problem is people dont like feeling we're going nowhere.

Well boo **** woo, welcome to everyone apart from the top 5 or 6 in the premier league.

I dont know how everyone copes, dont know why everyone elses grounds are not empty.

[juanpabloangel18]

So what you're saying is that Lerner has turned us into Bolton. Great.

[Bazdavies79]

So what you're saying is that Lerner has turned us into Bolton. Great.

I don't think that's what he was saying.

[makouns_grin]

So what you're saying is that Lerner has turned us into Bolton. Great.

And?

Unless we get someone mega rich its going to be like that forever, for everyone.

People will dip and fall, spend, sell go about what they've done for years with the top clubs spending spending spending.

We could piss and moan, claim we have a bad owner, get a new manager or owner in every week its not going to change any time soon so we go on and on about it.

[TheDrums]

I'm not saying Lerner is an 'awful terrible owner'. I don't think anyone would go that far. But he has failed badly at some of the basics.

I would, this thread wouldn't be as big if people didn't think that.

Hes not allowed to make mistakes, some have a problem with how he is wealthy as well, which is laughable.

I'm sure they would have a problem with a Sheikh mansour type as well

Any owner will make mistakes, spend too much money, not spend too much money. He really is not that bad.

The main problem is people dont like feeling we're going nowhere.

Well boo **** woo, welcome to everyone apart from the top 5 or 6 in the premier league.

I dont know how everyone copes, dont know why everyone elses grounds are not empty.

Is it possible you can think and type out a post without reverting to cursing, constantly saying "****" and calling Villa fans "pathetic"?

Cursing online doesn't make you hard or make whatever point you are making any more valuable or factual.

We could piss and moan, claim we have a bad owner, get a new manager or owner in every week its not going to change any time soon so we go on and on about it.

You cannot possibly be that thick? You "go on and on" about posters here, yet every bloody post of yours is "Villa fans this, Villa fans that". Stop contradicting yourself. You look silly.

[makouns_grin]

I'm not saying Lerner is an 'awful terrible owner'. I don't think anyone would go that far. But he has failed badly at some of the basics.

I would, this thread wouldn't be as big if people didn't think that.

Hes not allowed to make mistakes, some have a problem with how he is wealthy as well, which is laughable.

I'm sure they would have a problem with a Sheikh mansour type as well

Any owner will make mistakes, spend too much money, not spend too much money. He really is not that bad.

The main problem is people dont like feeling we're going nowhere.

Well boo **** woo, welcome to everyone apart from the top 5 or 6 in the premier league.

I dont know how everyone copes, dont know why everyone elses grounds are not empty.

Is it possible you can think and type out a post without reverting to cursing, constantly saying "****" and calling Villa fans "pathetic"?

Cursing online doesn't make you hard or make whatever point you are making any more valuable or factual.

I apologise if swearing offends you.

I did indeed think it made me proper hard!

But i'm sorry some Villa fans are pathetic.

All clubs that have fans which are pathetic, Villa ones are not doing themselves any favours currently though, with bizarre ramblings that we have a terrible owner. Because amongst other things he was given his money.

[makouns_grin]

You cannot possibly be that thick? You "go on and on" about posters here, yet every bloody post of yours is "Villa fans this, Villa fans that". Stop contradicting yourself. You look silly.

Thats not actually true, a few posts in OT dont say villa or fans

People just need to get a grip, we're half the problem.

If we all stopped bickering and made Villa park full every week, it would help a hell of a lot.

But folk are far too busy getting their nickers in a twist over the fact we're not going to do anything anytime soon.

What happened to just enjoying supporting your local team, watching them play football good or bad.

Football fans in general have been brainwashed by money are far too concerned with what other teams are doing.

If you cannot enjoy football unless your winning something then i dunno why people support football, because its not about the game, its just glory.

Of course its great when its happens, but this is more to being a football supporter.

[thetrees]

When RL appointed Eck, I lost all hope. This man has never done anything positive in the English game and this, coupled with his BlueNose heritage (2x) and the pressure that brings, was always destined to be a complete

A list of managers who have won a domestic trophy in the past 5 years. Only 5 clubs have won anything, and only one completely potless, unfashionable minnow has won anything.

You may not like the man, but I think that he has at least done something positive in the English game.

Ferguson

Ancelotti

Mancini

Redknapp

Hiddink

Mourinho

Ramos

McLeish

[Denis_B]

But i'm sorry some Villa fans are pathetic.

Agreed, but not about the same ones as you

[nick76]

I know, I know, but once in a while I have to bite just to vent some frustration...........I know he's a bluenose, and it frustates me more that I do respond once in a while

What a load of **** shit!

I'm a bluenose because i wont jump on the band wagon that Lerner is this god awful terrible owner.

Nobody can seem to answer me why he wasn't a terrible owner when he was spending bucket loads and we had MON along with contributing to improving the infrastructure?

This thread and all the other bollocks spouting ones didn't exist then, why not; if he is this awful terrible owner?

Are we threatened with going completely out of business, to be a football club at all; because the way some folk are acting we are, its that bad apparently!

Then all of a sudden Villa fans are brown football experts, experts at running football clubs, experts and knowing what managers and players are coming.

All that Lerner has done all that terrible stuff like the training ground is nothing, thats terrible; well it would be if some Villa fans should be believed.

Get a **** grip, for some its an agenda, if he sacked eck, sacked PF got rid of all his money and earned it rather than being given it, made browns amazing told the fans every single thing, people would still have a problem!

There are more clubs in this country in the same position than us and a hell of a lot more worse off than us as well, yet some fans seem to think we're automatically should be doing this and that because we're Villa.

Pathetic.

yet again you talk rubbish, you pick part of my response and not the full part. This was my answer to why I responded to you 'to bite' where I already stated what I wanted from Lerner which is nothing like what you mention above.......I said he has made some inept decisions......I also said I wasn't bothered about spending the money and all I wanted was a bit of a fight in games. So you pick part of my argument to suit your far fetched argument......read what I had said! No wonder nobody takes you seriously when you only pick part of people's arguments and then jump to the far extreme

[makouns_grin]

I wasn't bothered about spending the money and all I wanted was a bit of a fight in games.

So thats Lerners fault then is it?

The current manager doesn't get enough fight from his players.

Sack that manager, on to the next one.

That doesn't happen, sack that one too.

Easy, costs no money, players will love it obviously.

Fans should be ignored as 9 times out of 10 they know jack shit about running a football club.

[Dodgyknees]

And Randy does?

Faulkner does?

Because they have a nice title in their name, it means they know what they are doing?

That's ok then, I'll go give my money to the bankers and sign my life over to the MP's while I am at it as they surely know what they are doing too.

[Risso]

You cannot possibly be that thick? You "go on and on" about posters here, yet every bloody post of yours is "Villa fans this, Villa fans that". Stop contradicting yourself. You look silly.

Thats not actually true, a few posts in OT dont say villa or fans

People just need to get a grip, we're half the problem.

If we all stopped bickering and made Villa park full every week, it would help a hell of a lot.

But folk are far too busy getting their nickers in a twist over the fact we're not going to do anything anytime soon.

What happened to just enjoying supporting your local team, watching them play football good or bad.

Football fans in general have been brainwashed by money are far too concerned with what other teams are doing.

If you cannot enjoy football unless your winning something then i dunno why people support football, because its not about the game, its just glory.

Of course its great when its happens, but this is more to being a football supporter.

It was easier to be philosophical about football years ago when it was a lot cheaper, both in relative and absolute terms. A group of you could meet at the pub, decide last minute to head down to Villa Park, stand on the Holte and have a good laugh whatever the result/performance. Even as a student in Birmingham, a season ticket wasn't that much of a stretch for me and I had one for all three years, as well as travelling around the country for away games. Now though, football is far more expensive and if you're going to stump up a big proportion of your disposable income, for say a night trip to Spurs, you don't want to get there and see that that turd McLeish has picked Alan chuffin' Hutton at right sodding midfield!

[NowDoINotLikeThat]

Appointing McWank was such obviously a bad , bad , bad idea i don't see how it could qualify as a "mistake".

It was bloody obvious it was a bad idea at the time to pretty much everyone.

A mistake is when you do something unknowingly wrong in hindsight.

Even if you wanted to "steady the ship" why appoint proven failure in Prem manager who makes Gary Megson look cultured and progressive - a manager that no one wants.

A manager whos first choice midfield last night was Hutton-Petrov-Herd-Heskey with 6 defenders starting.

Its the silliest appointment in Premiership i can think of.

[R.I.C.O.]

You cannot possibly be that thick? You "go on and on" about posters here, yet every bloody post of yours is "Villa fans this, Villa fans that". Stop contradicting yourself. You look silly.

Thats not actually true, a few posts in OT dont say villa or fans

People just need to get a grip, we're half the problem.

If we all stopped bickering and made Villa park full every week, it would help a hell of a lot.

But folk are far too busy getting their nickers in a twist over the fact we're not going to do anything anytime soon.

What happened to just enjoying supporting your local team, watching them play football good or bad.

Football fans in general have been brainwashed by money are far too concerned with what other teams are doing.

If you cannot enjoy football unless your winning something then i dunno why people support football, because its not about the game, its just glory.

Of course its great when its happens, but this is more to being a football supporter.

Superb post. My sentiments exactly.

[Houlston]

You cannot possibly be that thick? You "go on and on" about posters here, yet every bloody post of yours is "Villa fans this, Villa fans that". Stop contradicting yourself. You look silly.

Thats not actually true, a few posts in OT dont say villa or fans

People just need to get a grip, we're half the problem.

If we all stopped bickering and made Villa park full every week, it would help a hell of a lot.

But folk are far too busy getting their nickers in a twist over the fact we're not going to do anything anytime soon.

What happened to just enjoying supporting your local team, watching them play football good or bad.

Football fans in general have been brainwashed by money are far too concerned with what other teams are doing.

If you cannot enjoy football unless your winning something then i dunno why people support football, because its not about the game, its just glory.

Of course its great when its happens, but this is more to being a football supporter.

It was easier to be philosophical about football years ago when it was a lot cheaper, both in relative and absolute terms. A group of you could meet at the pub, decide last minute to head down to Villa Park, stand on the Holte and have a good laugh whatever the result/performance. Even as a student in Birmingham, a season ticket wasn't that much of a stretch for me and I had one for all three years, as well as travelling around the country for away games. Now though, football is far more expensive and if you're going to stump up a big proportion of your disposable income, for say a night trip to Spurs, you don't want to get there and see that that turd McLeish has picked Alan chuffin' Hutton at right sodding midfield!

I think you both have a point, the one extreme was last night where the football served up and ideas was nothing but turgid so I think the moaning is valid. But then on the other side of the coin you have fans moaning constantly about success success success and thats not really what its all about unless of course youve only been watching football for ten years.

[CI]

I'm really looking forward to Bolton away, think it could be one of our games of the season and end up 3-5 or something crazy

[blandy]

Sorry Pete, but disagree again. I don't think that lending the club a load of money and then wasting half of it is evidence of anything good at all. We now have a squad that's no stronger than when Lerner arrived, but with a whole load more debt. The net value of the club (ie assets less liabilities) is worth less than under Ellis.

on those points, I think we need to seperate out a couple of things

1. Lending the club a load of money (and putting in a load of his own) - that is something which enabled the Manager(s) at the time to go and get players and take us up the league from where we had stagnated. That the end result wasn't as successful as would have been liked by everyone is a seperate issue. The chairman doesn't pick the team or the players to come and go. That's the manager's job. A new chairman should not be second guessing their manager on transfers. If it had resulted in top 4, which was possible, then it would have been seen as successful. i.e. the act of lending and giving wasn't "wrong" . It is seperate from the managerial record of the Manager(s).

2. On the squad, it doesn't matter whether we agree or not, that's neither here nor there. Right now we're 8th after a 9th place, 3 consecutive 6th places and a 10th place, having had a Wembley final and a Wembley semi recently. When he took over the record was rather worse. We'd just scraped away from relegation, and had not had the same level of final placings. The squad was in open rebellion, the manager was strongly disliked by just about everyone, the club was not able to pay the bills for the training ground, which was dilapidated and needed major work. The place was moribund.

3. Value of the Club on paper. We had an overdraft that wouldn't be extended and was used up (11 million OD) we were running at a loss (as we are now) but there was no plan or way to take the 17th placed team and stay up while cutting costs and no way of increasing revenue. I'm sure you may be right about the paper value, but I'm also sure that the club would sell for a heck of a lot more now, than the 63 million RL paid for it. He might not get all his investment back, but it's him that will/would lose out. It was his choice. Part of sale would surely include writing off/paying up the debt. I'm not sure that the comparison means much.

[Mantis]

100% of his appointments have been disastrous so far. Houllier was a head-scratcher, Mcleish even more so (perhaps more like a skull-caver).

Regardless of how it turned out, I don't think the Houllier appointment was a bad one at the time. We'd just had our manager walk out on us right before the start of the season. There weren't really that many options available to us at that time. Houllier did have a fair bit of success and while he had health issues I distinctly remember him being passed fit by his doctor. In hindsight it might look a bad appointment, but as I said, at the time, I don't think it was bad at all.

McLeish on the other hand was as you said, a skull-caver. He'd just gotten SHA relegated after they were looking safe only a few months before. His teams play dire football and he came straight from SHA. While I don't think his SHA connections matter, it did to some people and I'm pretty sure Randy and Faulkner would have had the foresight to know that appointing him with all those things in mind would certainly ruffle a few feathers. Not only that but there were definitely better candidates out there. I just don't understand what their rationale was. It was possibly one of the most bizarre managerial appointments in history.

The other head scratcher is that the appointment came after we were interested in talking to Martinez, who is the complete opposite to McLeish football wise in just about every single way.

Yeah, that's another thing. Doesn't make any sense. They clearly weren't using style of football as criteria when looking for a new manager, nor was success a criteria (obviously). So what was their main criteria?