Keyblade Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 4 minutes ago, Awol said: You're right, 9/11 was targeted at Americans and non-believers generally. Any Muslims killed in the attacks would go to heaven as martyrs and we're therefore not of concern. The IRA identified as Irish Republicans, fighting the British state and their Loyalist proxies. Muslim extremists fight for Allah alone against all comers, not for a country or other such secular creations. It had nothing to do with non believers and martyrs, that's just recruitment rhetoric, I mean ol Osama has spelled it out in so many of those old VHS recordings for us: "There is America, full of fear from its north to its south, from its west to its east. Thank God for that. What America is tasting now is something insignificant compared to what we have tasted for scores of years. Our nation [the Islamic world] has been tasting this humiliation and this degradation for more than 80 years. Its sons are killed, its blood is shed, its sanctuaries are attacked, and no one hears and no one heeds." "The American people had risen against their government's war in Vietnam. They must do the same today. The American people should stop the massacre of Muslims by their government." "Free men do not forfeit their security, contrary to Bush's claim that we hate freedom. If so, then let him explain to us why we don't strike Sweden, for example." "I present a reconciliation initiative... whose essence is our commitment to stop operations against all (European) countries if they promise not to be aggressive towards Muslims or interfere in their affairs." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 18 minutes ago, Awol said: Christian extremists in the US deny a woman's right to have an abortion, oppose same sex relationships and try to push their personal values on others. Mainstream Muslim states hang homosexuals, stone adulterers to death, discriminate against women generally (up to and including legally making them the property of a male relative or partner), chop of heads for apostasy, execute people for blasphemy and that's before we get to those who are actually described as Islamic extremists. Meanwhile in the wider population of some major Muslim countries like Nigeria and Pakistan, lynch mobs take to the streets and murder dozens of Christian's in cold blood, because some paper in Denmark published a cartoon they find offensive. As Coda said Christianity pre the Reformation was every bit as horrible, but that was 500 years ago. To claim there is even a remote equivalence now, today, between the actions of what would be defined as Muslim and Christian extremists is morally and intellectually risible. You should take a look at what the Christian extremists do to Muslim minority's in parts of central Africa on a fairly regular basis. A quick google search will show you plenty of horror involving machetes and mosque burnings. The punishments met out to people who are discovered to be gay in a number of Christian countries in central Africa rivals the Muslim states in the Middle East. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Yep, what goes on in the CAR is probably even worse than anything I've heard done by even ISIS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momo Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 alexandre bissonnette Quote Alexandre Bissonnette, 27, also charged with five counts of attempted murder in attack prime minister Justin Trudeau called act of terrorism attack ... called act of terrorism??? So it is not definite that it is an act of terrorism to shoot randomly at people in a crowd when the crowd is Muslim?? **** the media! They are more responsible than any white man for the hate towards Muslims and the Islamophobia that runs through Europe and Northern America right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 7 minutes ago, Keyblade said: Yep, what goes on in the CAR is probably even worse than anything I've heard done by even ISIS. But that can't be true keyblade. Since the Reformation Christians all turn the other cheek now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 2 minutes ago, momo said: alexandre bissonnette attack ... called act of terrorism??? So it is not definite that it is an act of terrorism to shoot randomly at people in a crowd when the crowd is Muslim?? **** the media! They are more responsible than any white man for the hate towards Muslims and the Islamophobia that runs through Europe and Northern America right now. Eh? He called (named/stated) it as an act of terrorism and that's what they reported.. I'm so confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphouneso Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 10 minutes ago, Keyblade said: Yep, what goes on in the CAR is probably even worse than anything I've heard done by even ISIS. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 22 minutes ago, Keyblade said: 1 in 4 Americans believe that homosexuality should be a crime. Let that sink in, and this is in the land of the free and brave. Comparing those Christians to Muslims in failed states, dictatorships and lawless countries on the face of it is disingenuous. Okay, so if we're ruling out the failed & failing states, the dictatorships and the lawless then which Muslim run countries remain for a meaningful comparison? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 6 minutes ago, Awol said: Okay, so if we're ruling out the failed & failing states, the dictatorships and the lawless then which Muslim run countries remain for a meaningful comparison? How about comparing western Muslims with western Christians in a secular run state? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momo Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 8 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: Eh? He called (named/stated) it as an act of terrorism and that's what they reported.. I'm so confused. Really? Is this how media reports terrorist attacks done by non-white people? Then they say outright that it was a terrorist attack, not "he called it a terrorist attack". It is a subtle, but huge difference in reporting when Muslims get killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) 14 minutes ago, momo said: Really? Is this how media reports terrorist attacks done by non-white people? Then they say outright that it was a terrorist attack, not "he called it a terrorist attack". It is a subtle, but huge difference in reporting when Muslims get killed. I'm still confused. They literally reported that Trudeau called it a terrorist attack. If they're reporting the PM's words, how else are they meant to phrase it? Edited January 31, 2017 by StefanAVFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 4 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: I'm still confused. They literally reported that Trudeau called it a terrorist attack. If there reporting the PM's words, how else are they meant to phrase it? He wants the newspaper to also call it a terrorist attack. Not just report that Trudeau did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 1 hour ago, Rugeley Villa said: So because they (Saudis) are not likely to change they get a free pass? We're back to $ worship again, and they sell us oil and spend zillions. It's double standards right enough, vote Green or Corbyn if you don't like it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 18 minutes ago, LondonLax said: How about comparing western Muslims with western Christians in a secular run state? This. I remember a Pew poll that showed more American Muslims were in favor of same sex marriage than every Christan denomination bar 2, and that includes 'traditionally African American' Christians. I'll try to find it when I get on my PC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 22 minutes ago, LondonLax said: How about comparing western Muslims with western Christians in a secular run state? Okay cool, we'll leave out actual Muslim countries because including them isn't fair. France is about as secular as it gets. How do the actions of Christian and Muslim extremists compare there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 just saw this on Facebook made me chuckle .... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted January 31, 2017 Moderator Share Posted January 31, 2017 1 hour ago, Davkaus said: Straying off topic a little, but I wonder if this is genuinely true the further up you go. Do the guys running the caliphate really think their minions are going to heaven and getting 72 virgins, or do they just care about their own power and think "these **** idiots will believe anything". Almost certainly, I'd say. A good few years back I read the memoirs of Sean O'Callaghan - "The Informer". He talked about how he grew up in the deep south of Ireland and truly believed in "the cause", but as he rose up through the ranks he found that much of what the IRA were supposedly against, as a Catholic organisation, was actually their raison d'etre. Prostitution, drug running, arms dealing. It was this that prompted him to become an informant - he felt betrayed and tricked. I'd be shocked if ISIS, Boko Haram, etc aren't exactly the same. Populist with a hidden agenda. Like Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted January 31, 2017 Moderator Share Posted January 31, 2017 1 hour ago, Rugeley Villa said: From us invading another ones land again. So your singling one city out just to prove a point. Let's hope we never see a memorial in Birmingham referring to an attack by Islamic extremists(sorry Hilary, I meant extremists) Agree - let's hope that's the case. But I chose Birmingham as it's home to many of us, and if Islamic terror is such a threat why are we all still ok? I could have chosen Warrington, Manchester, Belfast. It wasn't exactly an isolated incident. We could go off topic debating the religiousness of loyalists and republicans, but it's easy to point to the Orange marches or confession to show that religion has a role within it. Anyway, back to America... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 7 hours ago, maqroll said: Trump has just fired the acting Attorney General who defied his Executive Order. This is really unbelievable. Add to that, he's kicked the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs off the National Security team, and put Bannon in there! This is a crisis. The purging begins. Hopefully everyone can stop debating about his intentions at least. This is not a drill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 3 hours ago, Rugeley Villa said: Protests all over uk. Where are these protests when the Saudis visit? Where is the outrage from VT when the Saudis arrive over here. Mostly in the back of police vans. And most definitely nowhere near the mainstream media. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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