U.S. Politics

[blandy]

3 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

I know it's very easy to dismiss protests as spoilt people having a tantrum because they didn't get their way,

Unfortunately, a large part of it is exactly that. It's part of modern culture. America elected a bell end as president, and there's a women's march about it in Manchester and London and so on. Why? what's that going to change? Yes Trump is pretty vile, but he's American, in America. Lots of leaders are pretty horrible, so why decide that America's leader should be the one to have a march about? Good luck to all those people who did march, I wish them well, but seriously, what are they trying to achieve by it?

I suspect a large part is more about a kind of tribalism, like twibbons and Facebook walls and all that - "here's a selfie of me on a March in Manchester protesting against a whatever thing, aren't I metropolitan and sophisticated and liberal" - it's as much about the marchers as trying to actually affect anything.

[StefanAVFC]

Just now, blandy said:

Unfortunately, a large part of it is exactly that. It's part of modern culture. America elected a bell end as president, and there's a women's march about it in Manchester and London and so on. Why? what's that going to change? Yes Trump is pretty vile, but he's American, in America. Lots of leaders are pretty horrible, so why decide that America's leader should be the one to have a march about? Good luck to all those people who did march, I wish them well, but seriously, what are they trying to achieve by it?

I took it as a show of solidarity worldwide against an openly misogynistic demagogue.

1 minute ago, blandy said:

I suspect a large part is more about a kind of tribalism, like twibbons and Facebook walls and all that - "here's a selfie of me on a March in Manchester protesting against a whatever thing, aren't I metropolitan and sophisticated and liberal" - it's as much about the marchers as trying to actually affect anything.

I would usually agree with you here, but I think this is something different altogether this time.

[blandy]

1 minute ago, StefanAVFC said:

I took it as a show of solidarity worldwide against an openly misogynistic demagogue.

I'm sure that's a part of it. but I kind of think that's pretty much the same as "look at me". Everyone's become very tribal and there are so many different tribes.

Are there any other openly misogynistic demagogues around? I've not noticed any other marches, so I guess not.

[StefanAVFC]

I just don't get his logic. Many, many more Muslims are killed by Muslims in the middle east, yet he's shunning them in favour of solely Christians. 

Tribalism is tribalism. Small minorities of people will follow their interpretation of their god and they'll kill other people regardless of their religion. This sort of policy is so one-eyed and horrifying. Two children from Syria, one is a Christian and one is a Muslim. That is the only difference between them. One is allowed to be rescued and one has to be left to die.

That is absolutely shameful.

[Rugeley Villa]

17 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Yeah, it's not as if people spent 8 years calling Obama a secret Muslim, denouncing him as a real citizen with a fake birth certificate, attacking Michelle etc. 

I know it's very easy to dismiss protests as spoilt people having a tantrum because they didn't get their way, but I'm sure the same was said about any protestors against any rising authoritarian regime. It has been a week. A WEEK. And we already have legal immigrants being detained at the airport based around nothing other than their religion and/or where they were born. A week in.

Also, the fact that millions and millions marched for the Women's march last week worldwide, with a tiny, tiny amount of arrests in comparison shows that your pathetic attempt to paint the left, and only the left, as violent rioters is exactly that. A pathetic attempt.

Don't just thank him. Take what he says and start expanding your opinion. Because we all know that however long down the line, we will have the same comments and people will take time to explain things yet again and then however long down the line again and so on.

I'm getting really tired so these one-line snipes with regards to any political issue, yet when challenged there's no detailed rebuttal. But more one-line snipes.

by the look of it Stefan me and you among a few others are worlds apart regarding education and knowledge about certain things. I mean for **** sake I have to google half the words you come out with and politics seems to be your thing. I asked a question as I though it was a bit rich and I got a good reply. I don't agree with some of the things trump is doing but I think a change is needed and a more conservative/republican way of thinking will make America a better country in the long run. It does seem he's trying to take America back a few decades instead of progressively forward but imo that's not a bad thing. Same with our country. Don't expect educational posts me and don't try and tie me up with all your mumbo jumbo  you may get tired of my one liners but maybe I get fed up of your trump rants although I won't say some of them are not entertaining. Different views my friend.

[StefanAVFC]

Just now, blandy said:

I'm sure that's a part of it. but I kind of think that's pretty much the same as "look at me". Everyone's become very tribal and there are so many different tribes.

Are there any other openly misogynistic demagogues around? I've not noticed any other marches, so I guess not.

I think it's partly due to expectation. There has been high levels of outrage with Duterte's actions. With Erdogan's. But Trump has inspired a whole new level because Europeans see America partly in their own image; while Trump is being a dictator, it hits much closer to home.

I know that's not right, but it's definitely a factor.

[StefanAVFC]

2 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said:

I don't agree with some of the things trump is doing - like what?

but I think a change is needed and a more conservative/republican way of thinking will make America a better country in the long run. - how?

It does seem he's trying to take America back a few decades instead of progressively forward but imo that's not a bad thing.  why?

Okay then, prove my last post wrong. Expand on these three points. Give us reasons why. Not just empty rhetoric.

[Keyblade]

30 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said:

There would be none of the stuff you are seeing now. 

You have a point there (who knows really, it's probably because right wingers in the states aren't normally ones to take to the streets like that) but they still would never give her a chance, if Obama is anything to go by. She seems to be even more hated than him too

[StefanAVFC]

2 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

You have a point there (who knows really, it's probably because right wingers in the states aren't normally ones to take to the streets like that) 

Generally speaking, the right wingers live in the arse-end of nowhere. A march of you, your 13 brothers and sisters, your pet goose and your racist grandpa in Pineville, Kentucky isn't going to attract the numbers that protests in (traditionally left-leaning) big cities attract.

Edited January 29, 2017 by StefanAVFC

[Keyblade]

6 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Generally speaking, the right wingers live in the arse-end of nowhere. A march of you, your 13 brothers and sisters, your pet goose and your racist grandpa in Pineville, Kentucky isn't going to attract the numbers that protests in (traditionally left-leaning) big cities attract.

Yeah that's what I was thinking. The closest they ever got to a large protest was the Tea Party days (remember them? Good times). 

[snowychap]

40 minutes ago, blandy said:

America elected a bell end as president, and there's a women's march about it in Manchester and London and so on. Why? what's that going to change?

Maybe they thought they could effect a change in the attitude and policy of the UK government towards him?

Edited January 29, 2017 by snowychap

[snowychap]

32 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said:

It does seem he's trying to take America back a few decades

About eight of them.

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

2 hours ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said:

2 hours ago, Xann said:

What odds on a U-turn on the water cannon?

Isn't that a U-Bend ? 

 

2 hours ago, Xann said:

You think the portaloo empties into the water tanks?

Let myself down there.  You pulled me up on it and you had every right to do so.

 

 

[TheAuthority]

1 hour ago, blandy said:

Unfortunately, a large part of it is exactly that. It's part of modern culture. America elected a bell end as president, and there's a women's march about it in Manchester and London and so on. Why?

I see it as people in the UK regard themselves as part of Western Democracy. This includes Europe, the UK, and the USA is, like it or not, the leader of this of this loose collection of ideas. As citizens of "The West" we enjoy freedom of speech, a relatively educated population and an almost consistent rise in living standards since the end of WWII. (This is all very general of course.)

When the USA (as leader of "the West") elects someone as abhorrent as Donald Trump as it's President, other citizens of the West feel as though they have a stake in it. Citizens want to show their disapproval because they have the right to do so, are educated about it, and are fearful for the future of the world under the leadership of someone like Trump.

At least that's how I read most of it - basically well intentioned.
Although they may well be a percentage of "limousine liberal" types who just want to snapchat themselves wearing a pussy hat.

 

 

Edited January 29, 2017 by TheAuthority

[TheAuthority]

13 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said:

Let myself down there.  You pulled me up on it and you had every right to do so.

Yeah you're plunging to new depths.

[Davkaus]

There's a delicious irony in the pro-Brexit tory word removed Nadhim Zahawi complaining about the US taking control of their borders. It's alright, as long as he's not one of the ones banned. 

[Xann]

1 hour ago, blandy said:

... there's a women's march about it in Manchester and London and so on. Why? what's that going to change?... he's American, in America... what are they trying to achieve by it?

Must admit I thought the same, like he was going to give a toss.

Then you look at the numbers involved in World protests, and the vast spaces of empty at his inauguration.

He'd have seen that on the news.

1 hour ago, blandy said:

... it's as much about the marchers as trying to actually affect anything.

He comes over here and it's two protests for the price of one. Anti Trump and anti Tory.

There will be more than one sort of protester there, they won't all be taking selfies.

[darrenm]

33 minutes ago, snowychap said:

Maybe they thought they could effect a change in the attitude and policy of the UK government towards him?

Exactly this. What are people to do but protest? Post on Facebook? Tweet?

The leader of the USA is an imposter. He's clearly not fit for purpose. Our leader is being an incredible sycophant and refusing to criticise him in any way in case he gets offended and doesn't throw us some crumbs. **** that. Tell everyone he's not wearing any clothes.

[PompeyVillan]

1 hour ago, blandy said:

Unfortunately, a large part of it is exactly that. It's part of modern culture. America elected a bell end as president, and there's a women's march about it in Manchester and London and so on. Why? what's that going to change? Yes Trump is pretty vile, but he's American, in America. Lots of leaders are pretty horrible, so why decide that America's leader should be the one to have a march about? Good luck to all those people who did march, I wish them well, but seriously, what are they trying to achieve by it?

I suspect a large part is more about a kind of tribalism, like twibbons and Facebook walls and all that - "here's a selfie of me on a March in Manchester protesting against a whatever thing, aren't I metropolitan and sophisticated and liberal" - it's as much about the marchers as trying to actually affect anything.

I think that is harsh. 

For me, it is that modern British politics is confusing. There is so much mud and spin, it's difficult to know what to protest about. Probably everything, everyday. 

Donald Trump is so overtly brash, racist and sexist it's easy for those with a feminist agenda to organise a popular protest. 

Edited January 29, 2017 by PompeyVillan
Poor use of language.

[snowychap]

Just watching BBC News and it would seem that the Cato Institute are joining up with civil liberties organizations to oppose (at least parts of) the executive order on immigration.

I'd have thought that was an unusual partnership but a quick google has them doing it more often than one would have thought.