markavfc40 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 11 minutes ago, LakotaDakota said: He won because fewer people dislike/distrust him than Hilary. The average person just wants a job & to be able to look after their family, People are sick of all the PC neoliberal stuff and being told how they should think by a few celebrities who take offence to everything on twitter. Plenty of women/minorities voted for him, Hell he even managed to increase the Black/Latino vote share from 2012 by a couple of % I am not saying that all those who voted for him hold one of the views I listed and I am sure many voted for exactly the reasons you state. However a consequence of Brexit and now Trump being elected is those that do hold those extremist views will feel that they have been legitimised which is no surprise is it given the language Trump used during his campaign and the views he holds didn’t prevent being elected President. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 5 minutes ago, Rodders said: "sick of being told how to think" - I see this often, but usually by people who've been told off for saying refugees should **** off and muslims are going to blow everyone up. Is there a genuinely normal view that isn't racist / homophobic / sexist / mysgonyistic that is met with a "you can't say that" ( that also hasn't been completely fabricated by certain media types - i.e. no-one says you can't say merry christmas despite what some phenomenally stupid people think ) The irony is that people who make this complaint don't seem to mind being told what to think by the crazed ideologues of the Mail/Express/Fox News. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted November 9, 2016 Moderator Share Posted November 9, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LakotaDakota Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 16 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said: It made me want to vomit seeing all these celebs cuddling up to Hilary Clinton. They live in a completely different world to us. I wouldn't be surprised if it made a few people go out and vote for Trump who otherwise wouldn't have bothered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 23 minutes ago, maqroll said: Clinton is a really pathetic campaigner...she ignored Michigan and Wisconsin thinking they were solidly blue. And ultimately, her message was all about how terrible Trump is, and very little about her own policies. 270 days without a press conference wasnt it? how many experts declared trump couldnt win without florida? so trump smashed florida in the last month Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 5 minutes ago, LakotaDakota said: I wouldn't be surprised if it made a few people go out and vote for Trump who otherwise wouldn't have bothered yep, it played in to the hands of trumps *sigh* trump card which was how he represented real americans whilst she was just another rinse and repeat of the system they were all fed up with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Trump had a few celebrities. I believe he was introduced by Ted Nugent. A man that dodged the vietnam draft by shitting in his pants then sitting in it for 7 days before his fitness evaluation. Charlie Sheen came out in support of him as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted November 9, 2016 Moderator Share Posted November 9, 2016 1 minute ago, Davkaus said: Trump had a few celebrities. I believe he was introduced by Ted Nugent. A man that dodged the vietnam draft by shitting in his pants then sitting in it for 7 days before his fitness evaluation. Charlie Sheen came out in support of him as well. Celebrities you say... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 13 minutes ago, BOF said: The Internet today is basically people doing this and the rest who are laughing at people doing this. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStagMan Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 32 minutes ago, markavfc40 said: To me much of this like Brexit is all about blaming Johnny foreigner for the failures of Government. It is the lowest level you can tap into, it offers the simple fix. I hear and see it here every day. NHS on its arse it is down to the immigrants, lack of housing, down to the immigrants, suppressed wages down to the immigrants, poor social care down to the immigrants. I really wouldn’t want to have a strange accent or be a different colour at the moment. It is all very sad. Whilst there are extremists on both sides of any fence, saying this about people who voted to leave a political union they do not believe in is very offensive and this level of stereotyping and tarnishing all people who disagree with the current political situation as xenophobes is one of the reasons that candidates like Trump will prevail - if the establishment ignores the will of the people, or dismisses their views (like you just have) and labels them as "wrong" then the people will eventually chose the alternative option warts and all. Being intellectually, morally and politically superior and smug (or thinking you/they are) is one of the problems here and in the US. To be clear: I absolutely do not support any form of racism or xenophobia. And lumping people who disagree with the status quo in with those that do is a narrow minded attitude that totally misses the point,and makes people feel even more disenfranchised. That is why people like Trump prevail (I am not happy with him being elected, but I am not going to lose my shit over it like people are doing all over facebook this morning) Like Brexit here, I believe that the majority of people who voted for Trump are people who want change, normal people who are dissatisfied with what the current leaders are doing. The nut jobs and wierdos that attach themselves to his side are unfortunaately the ones that get the publicity. Trump got over 50% of the popular vote (although it was very close to 50/50). Say what you like, but there is no way that 50% of Americans are Xenophobic racists. What Trump needs to do is make sure that the real racists and xenophobes do get kept under their rocks whilst making sure that the balance of political correctness does not impede rational debate about the issues the country is facing. I have travelled to the US quite a lot, and met a lot of people. I have also worked regularly with a team of Americans who I have gotten to know quite well, most of them are well rounded, decent human beings, well travelled, receptive and open. Many of them told me they would be voting Trump. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 3 minutes ago, Davkaus said: Trump had a few celebrities. I believe he was introduced by Ted Nugent. A man that dodged the vietnam draft by shitting in his pants then sitting in it for 7 days before his fitness evaluation. Charlie Sheen came out in support of him as well. Ted mr America nugent! Piers Morgan was a trump fan so I believe. I think lynyrd skynyrd are doing a concert tonight to celebrate trumps win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 4 minutes ago, Davkaus said: Ted Nugent. Utter tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStagMan Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 27 minutes ago, Rodders said: "sick of being told how to think" - I see this often, but usually by people who've been told off for saying refugees should **** off and muslims are going to blow everyone up. Is there a genuinely normal view that isn't racist / homophobic / sexist / mysgonyistic that is met with a "you can't say that" ( that also hasn't been completely fabricated by certain media types - i.e. no-one says you can't say merry christmas despite what some phenomenally stupid people think ) *Ahem* I used to work for a large American oil company. We were sent a memo one year telling us that we were not allowed to refer to our "end of year" celebration as a "Christmas party" as it was offensive to some employees. We were also banned from having any Christmas decorations at or on our desks for the same reason. It does happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted November 9, 2016 Moderator Share Posted November 9, 2016 3 minutes ago, Awol said: The Internet today is basically the same as the internet every day FTFY 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 2 minutes ago, TheStagMan said: *Ahem* I used to work for a large American oil company. We were sent a memo one year telling us that we were not allowed to refer to our "end of year" celebration as a "Christmas party" as it was offensive to some employees. We were also banned from having any Christmas decorations at or on our desks for the same reason. It does happen. I'm not sure that's going to change whether the president is Obama, Clinton, Trump, or the reanimated remains of one of the founding fathers. Freedom of speech doesn't apply on the premises of companies. The government isn't going to get involved in how a company deals with Christmas celebrations among its employees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BOF Posted November 9, 2016 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted November 9, 2016 But just to add a little more depth. There are those who believe the real power in America is behind the scenes. That the president does not actually run the country. So in a way, there's a question to be asked of whether it really mattered who got in, in terms of real change at the top. With that being said ... What this DOES do is reflect incredibly poorly on the American population. Regardless of what he WILL do. They voted and therefore advocated what he SAID he would do. And that was a vote for hate and a vote for intolerance. The fact he'll have a hard time putting anything he said into practice is beside the point - albeit a relief for the rest of the world that he's just a glorified puppet with funny hair. The fact is that America's streets are now dangerously split down the middle between non-whites who've just been told via democracy that they're not welcome and white supremacists who've just had democracy tell them that they're in the majority, and are therefore somehow right. So to summarise, there may actually be very little change at the top, but potentally a lot of change on the streets. Bravo. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 6 minutes ago, TheStagMan said: Whilst there are extremists on both sides of any fence, saying this about people who voted to leave a political union they do not believe in is very offensive and this level of stereotyping and tarnishing all people who disagree with the current political situation as xenophobes is one of the reasons that candidates like Trump will prevail - if the establishment ignores the will of the people, or dismisses their views (like you just have) and labels them as "wrong" then the people will eventually chose the alternative option warts and all. Being intellectually, morally and politically superior and smug (or thinking you/they are) is one of the problems here and in the US. To be clear: I absolutely do not support any form of racism or xenophobia. And lumping people who disagree with the status quo in with those that do is a narrow minded attitude that totally misses the point,and makes people feel even more disenfranchised. That is why people like Trump prevail (I am not happy with him being elected, but I am not going to lose my shit over it like people are doing all over facebook this morning) Like Brexit here, I believe that the majority of people who voted for Trump are people who want change, normal people who are dissatisfied with what the current leaders are doing. The nut jobs and wierdos that attach themselves to his side are unfortunaately the ones that get the publicity. Trump got over 50% of the popular vote (although it was very close to 50/50). Say what you like, but there is no way that 50% of Americans are Xenophobic racists. What Trump needs to do is make sure that the real racists and xenophobes do get kept under their rocks whilst making sure that the balance of political correctness does not impede rational debate about the issues the country is facing. I have travelled to the US quite a lot, and met a lot of people. I have also worked regularly with a team of Americans who I have gotten to know quite well, most of them are well rounded, decent human beings, well travelled, receptive and open. Many of them told me they would be voting Trump. Superb post. Exactly the way I feel about what's occurred, and imo will continue to occur until what you've written there starts to sink in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStagMan Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 19 minutes ago, LakotaDakota said: I wouldn't be surprised if it made a few people go out and vote for Trump who otherwise wouldn't have bothered I was thinking the same thing. "Hmmmm, my opponent is doing well because the population feel that I am disconnected from them and live in a totally different world. What should I do....? I know, I will get Bon Jovi to tell them how great I am, and Lady GaGa, that will change their minds and convince them how down to earth I am." Terrible decision from Hillary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStagMan Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 1 minute ago, Davkaus said: I'm not sure that's going to change whether the president is Obama, Clinton, Trump, or the reanimated remains of one of the founding fathers. Freedom of speech doesn't apply on the premises of companies. The government isn't going to get involved in how a company deals with Christmas celebrations among its employees. Thats not the point, the point was that overblown political correctness does exist in people's lives and most wont differentiate if it is the government, the company the work for or the stray cat down the street. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 2 minutes ago, BOF said: But just to add a little more depth. There are those who believe the real power in America is behind the scenes. That the president does not actually run the country. So in a way, there's a question to be asked of whether it really mattered who got in, in terms of real change at the top. It's a fairly common conspiracy theory that gets repeated a lot. This idea that on the first day in the job, the president sits down with people behind the scenes running the likes of the NSA and CIA, and gets put in his place. It usually includes some sort of folder of all of the awful things that the president has done that he wouldn't want revealed to the public, but I'm not entirely sure that'd work with the Donald! It'll be interesting to see if his behaviour changes at all over the next couple of months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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